Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[FlyingDove]

So many wasting my time bible studies?

You should study the book of Acts and how to be reborn first, remember JESUS told HIS disciple NOT TO GO OUT WITHOUT A COMFORTER.

If you don't have it, guessing you don't since you don't answer any questions, and you are far from humble, do you consider yourself and JESUS disciple?

One can only plant so many seeds, time to dust my feet, praying that some of them landed on good soil, it's JESUS who gives the increase.

Your seeds are corrupt:

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, """""baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"""""

Jesus explicitly claims universal authority: Matt 28:18 """“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me""".

Every major source confirms this authority is divine, supreme & absolute.

The Gospels show His authority over teaching, demons, nature, life, death & judgment.

Paul affirms Him as head over all rule and authority. Jesus’ authority is total no prophet, apostle, or ritual can add to it.

Yet, you deny & replace His commands &then you question others discipleship?

You may want to reevaluate your position. Best Wishes, FD

 

[Biilybob65]

I sure do agree with you, if JESUS did not fill them with the Holy Ghost Peter may have never baptized them.

Being baptized in JESUS have one spifice porpups, to remove our sins.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

JESUS filling us with HIS spirit is totally different thing, us obeying and getting baptized in something we have to do.

Being filled with the spirit is something JESUS does.

I agree somewhat where I differ is when you said " Being baptized in JESUS have one specific purpose, to remove our sins. " I read it as to fold not only does it remit sin it also gives the indwelling spirit. This is the spirit baptism that John said Jesus was to baptize with. It is the one that he has authorized the Apostles to baptize with and it gives the indwelling spirit. Paul explains this best in Romans ^
6 in that chapter Paul goes into great detail to explain why this is the Spirit baptism that Jesus was to baptize. so it is not just to remove sin but also to give the indwelling spirit.

 

[Ouch]

Your seeds are corrupt:

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, """""baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"""""

Jesus explicitly claims universal authority: Matt 28:18 """“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me""".

Every major source confirms this authority is divine, supreme & absolute.

The Gospels show His authority over teaching, demons, nature, life, death & judgment.

Paul affirms Him as head over all rule and authority. Jesus’ authority is total no prophet, apostle, or ritual can add to it.

Yet, you deny & replace His commands &then you question others discipleship?

You may want to reevaluate your position. Best Wishes, FD

I didn't do any bible studies, just share HIS word on how to be saved.

So ot you HIS words are bad seeds.

Good luck.

 

[Biilybob65]

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

Romans 10:13
For, “every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And the bible tells how that one calls on the name of the Lord in Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. how did Paul call upon the name of the Lord it was through baptism in the name of Christ.

 

[Ouch]

I agree somewhat where I differ is when you said " Being baptized in JESUS have one specific purpose, to remove our sins. " I read it as to fold not only does it remit sin it also gives the indwelling spirit. This is the spirit baptism that John said Jesus was to baptize with. It is the one that he has authorized the Apostles to baptize with and it gives the indwelling spirit. Paul explains this best in Romans ^
6 in that chapter Paul goes into great detail to explain why this is the Spirit baptism that Jesus was to baptize. so it is not just to remove sin but also to give the indwelling spirit.

First I appreciate your style.

They really are two separate things.

As we see in Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

38, says be baptized for remission of sins.

AND you shall receive the Holy Ghost, SHALL meaning future NOT NOW.

When we get baptized in JESUS name that is something we have control over, something WE do.

When JESUS fills us with the Holy Ghost that is something HE DOES, of course we need to be humble and ask.

Look at Acts 2:4 JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost which had nothing to do with baptism, matter a fact when did those 120 people get baptized?
I say they were a part of the 3000 souls added later in Acts 2, can't prove it with HIS word.

Look at Acts 8, they were baptized and receive the Holy Ghost days maybe weeks later.

Acts 10, JESUS filled them, and Peter commanded them to be baptized.

Acts 19, Paul baptized them and laid hands on them, and JESUS filled them.

Two different things, or baptisms, your thoughts?

 

[Biilybob65]

In Jesus Name - Father, Son & H/S - Laying on of hands

In Greek, NAME is not just a label. It means AUTHORITY, power, reputation. STRONG’S G3686 — ὄνομα (ónoma) Meaning: reputation, AUTHORITY

Thayer’s Expanded Definition: The name is used for everything which the name covers: AUTHORITY, rank, interests, command, excellences, deeds.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Phil 2:10,11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

IMO, Baptism in the Name of Jesus is OK. Having said that, the RISEN Lord Himself gave this command:

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, """""baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"""""

OT Laying on of Hands = Sign of AUTHORITYY ability to: impart, commission, bless

Lev 16:21 High Priest had the AUTHORITY to impute the nations sins onto the scape goat)

Num 27:18–23 Moses laid hands on Joshua to transfer leadership

Num 8:10 The elders laid hands on the Levites to commission them

Gen 48:14 Jacob laid hands to bless Ephraim and Manasseh

Jesus chosen apostles continue that exact same pattern.

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Paul the master builder of the NT Church/Body of Christ:
Never commands tongues, never commands laying on of hands for the Spirit, never repeats Acts 2:38, never ties water to salvation, REPEATEDLY preaches, FAITHP ALONE (Rom 3–5)

The apostolic signs were not the gospel. They were the proof of the gospel's messengers AUTHORITY.

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

First I appreciate your style.

They really are two separate things.

As we see in Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

38, says be baptized for remission of sins.

AND you shall receive the Holy Ghost, SHALL meaning future NOT NOW.

When we get baptized in JESUS name that is something we have control over, something WE do.

When JESUS fills us with the Holy Ghost that is something HE DOES, of course we need to be humble and ask.

Look at Acts 2:4 JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost which had nothing to do with baptism, matter a fact when did those 120 people get baptized?
I say they were a part of the 3000 souls added later in Acts 2, can't prove it with HIS word.

Look at Acts 8, they were baptized and receive the Holy Ghost days maybe weeks later.

Acts 10, JESUS filled them, and Peter commanded them to be baptized.

Acts 19, Paul baptized them and laid hands on them, and JESUS filled them.

Two different things, or baptisms, your thoughts?

With all due respect my friend I think you are getting the spirit upon and the spirit within mixed up. The spirit upon only came upon in two separate times by divine intervention that was on the Apostles on the day of Pentecost and again on the Gentiles in Acts 10 any other time that the gifts was given it was by the laying on of the Apostles hand and it had a specific reason. It was to be as a sigh that these people building new churches were of God. It was never promised to all but a select few. The indwelling spirit on the other hand was promised to everyone coming to God. He gave the spirit of promise at the time of the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. you see it say so in Acts 2:38 confirmed by scripture in Acts 19 and Romans 6

 

[Ouch]

With all due respect my friend I think you are getting the spirit upon and the spirit within mixed up. The spirit upon only came upon in two separate times by divine intervention that was on the Apostles on the day of Pentecost and again on the Gentiles in Acts 10 any other time that the gifts was given it was by the laying on of the Apostles hand and it had a specific reason. It was to be as a sigh that these people building new churches were of God. It was never promised to all but a select few. The indwelling spirit on the other hand was promised to everyone coming to God. He gave the spirit of promise at the time of the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. you see it say so in Acts 2:38 confirmed by scripture in Acts 19 and Romans 6

I'm sorry, I'm only aware of 4 accounts of an example of JESUS filling folks with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2, they spoke in tongues, not sure when they were baptized in JESUS name I think in Acts 41?
Acts 8, they were baptized for remisson of sins, and Phillip had to send for Peter and John for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10 JESUS filled them as they spoke in tongues and then was baptized,
Acts 19, Paul baptized them and then received the Holy Ghost.

I don't understand the difference between upon and within?

 

[Wansvic]

Brother, thank you for engaging. I agree that Acts 10:43 explicitly states how remission of sins is received—through the name of Jesus by believing. Where we differ is when that remission occurs.

Acts 10 does not say forgiveness was withheld until baptism. In fact, the narrative order argues the opposite.

Remission is promised to believers (before baptism)

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43 KJV)​

Peter had not yet commanded baptism. The promise is attached to believing, not to a subsequent act.

The Holy Ghost fell immediately upon hearing and believing

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” (Acts 10:44 KJV)​

Scripture is clear that the Spirit does not indwell those still in their sins:

“The world cannot receive him.” (John 14:17 KJV)​

If sins were not yet remitted, God would be sealing unforgiven men with His Spirit—something Scripture never allows.

Peter’s own conclusion confirms faith, not baptism, as the condition

“God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Acts 11:17 KJV)​

Peter does not say “when they were baptized,” but “who believed.”

Baptism follows acceptance; it does not produce it

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” (Acts 10:47 KJV)​

The Spirit was already received. Baptism followed as obedience, testimony, and identification—not as the means of forgiveness.

Acts 2:38 cannot override Acts 10–11
Acts 2 occurs in a Jewish, covenant-transition context where repentance, baptism, and Messiah-recognition were publicly required of Israel (cf. Acts 3:19–21). Acts 10 is the first explicit Gentile conversion—and God Himself interrupts Peter to make the order unmistakable.

Scripture interprets Scripture. Acts 10 shows remission → Spirit → baptism, not the reverse.

Grace and peace.

You are ignoring the fact that the scripture makes a connection between the name of Jesus and remission of sin. And water baptism was consistently administered in the name of Jesus.

 

[Biilybob65]

I'm sorry, I'm only aware of 4 accounts of an example of JESUS filling folks with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2, they spoke in tongues, not sure when they were baptized in JESUS name I think in Acts 41?
Acts 8, they were baptized for remisson of sins, and Phillip had to send for Peter and John for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10 JESUS filled them as they spoke in tongues and then was baptized,
Acts 19, Paul baptized them and then received the Holy Ghost.

I don't understand the difference between upon and within?

Lets look at the examples you gave,
Acts 2 the spirit was poured out upon the Apostles according to scripture see Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Note why the spirit with power was given the Apostles it was for " and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." they were to be witness that what the they were saying was from God it was not the indwelling for the indwelling worked differently he produced fruit of the spirit in those he indwelled he did not give the power of witness.

In Acts 8 they were baptized with the baptism of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ans were given the indwelling spirit for a helper in their journey to walk in the light and be a doer of Gods word and produce the fruit of the spirit.
Then as Philip was ready to depart to do the work God called him to do by spreading the gospel he felt need to transfer the power of witness to help build this new church plant he just did. He did not have the ability to transfer the power so he had to call on Peter to come and transfer the power of witness so they could grow the church there while they went about spreading the gospel and planting more churches.

See biblical proof that the out pouring of Acts 2 with power to witness hasn't happened the same as on the Apostles in order to give the power of witness the Apostles had to lay there hands on others to transfer it. This was not promised to every believer but only given to those in charge of building the church. The indwelling a separate purpose was what was promised to every believer and was given in the baptism in Christ name (Acts 2:38)

Acts 10 is the time scripture records of the spirit being poured out as in Acts 2 and it was in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel when God said he would pour out his spirit on all his people to the Jews first then to the gentiles. It was a sign to the Jews that the gentiles are to be added to the church. It was not an indwelling but the same as the Apostle received in Acts 2.

After Peter and those that were with him seen that God did this as he did to them they understood that it was Gods will that they hear the gospel and have a chance to respond to the gospel call. Peter then said who was they to stand in the way of Gods will and commanded the to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ just as he did everyone up to this point. It was then when they submitted to to gospel call that they received the indwelling just as Acts 2:38 had promised.

Acts 19 Is the best scriptural support of the difference in the spirit within and the spirit upon. When Paul realized that something was off his question was did you receive the spirit when you believed? when the told him they never even heard of such teaching he asked then unto what were you baptized. Here we see two scriptural facts the first is that when one is said to have believed it means that one believed the teaching of baptism and had submitted. the second fact is that this is proof that the indwelling spirit is indeed given in the baptism of Acts 2:38 just as scripture say it is. That is given when Paul explains that John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
We are to be baptized with the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with the one that carries his name the water and spirit one of Acts 2 the one where we are baptized into his death as seen in Romans 6:3 the one that gives the new birth.

After Paul corrected the error of the baptism then he laid hands on them to transfer the power of witness so they could build the church that Paul had just planted so Paul could be on his way to do the work God called him to do. The power of witness is not the indwelling the indwelling is given through the baptism in Christ name just as Acts 2:38 says.

 

[Ouch]

Lets look at the examples you gave,
Acts 2 the spirit was poured out upon the Apostles according to scripture see Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Note why the spirit with power was given the Apostles it was for " and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." they were to be witness that what the they were saying was from God it was not the indwelling for the indwelling worked differently he produced fruit of the spirit in those he indwelled he did not give the power of witness.

In Acts 8 they were baptized with the baptism of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ans were given the indwelling spirit for a helper in their journey to walk in the light and be a doer of Gods word and produce the fruit of the spirit.
Then as Philip was ready to depart to do the work God called him to do by spreading the gospel he felt need to transfer the power of witness to help build this new church plant he just did. He did not have the ability to transfer the power so he had to call on Peter to come and transfer the power of witness so they could grow the church there while they went about spreading the gospel and planting more churches.

See biblical proof that the out pouring of Acts 2 with power to witness hasn't happened the same as on the Apostles in order to give the power of witness the Apostles had to lay there hands on others to transfer it. This was not promised to every believer but only given to those in charge of building the church. The indwelling a separate purpose was what was promised to every believer and was given in the baptism in Christ name (Acts 2:38)

Acts 10 is the time scripture records of the spirit being poured out as in Acts 2 and it was in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel when God said he would pour out his spirit on all his people to the Jews first then to the gentiles. It was a sign to the Jews that the gentiles are to be added to the church. It was not an indwelling but the same as the Apostle received in Acts 2.

After Peter and those that were with him seen that God did this as he did to them they understood that it was Gods will that they hear the gospel and have a chance to respond to the gospel call. Peter then said who was they to stand in the way of Gods will and commanded the to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ just as he did everyone up to this point. It was then when they submitted to to gospel call that they received the indwelling just as Acts 2:38 had promised.

Acts 19 Is the best scriptural support of the difference in the spirit within and the spirit upon. When Paul realized that something was off his question was did you receive the spirit when you believed? when the told him they never even heard of such teaching he asked then unto what were you baptized. Here we see two scriptural facts the first is that when one is said to have believed it means that one believed the teaching of baptism and had submitted. the second fact is that this is proof that the indwelling spirit is indeed given in the baptism of Acts 2:38 just as scripture say it is. That is given when Paul explains that John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
We are to be baptized with the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with the one that carries his name the water and spirit one of Acts 2 the one where we are baptized into his death as seen in Romans 6:3 the one that gives the new birth.

After Paul corrected the error of the baptism then he laid hands on them to transfer the power of witness so they could build the church that Paul had just planted so Paul could be on his way to do the work God called him to do. The power of witness is not the indwelling the indwelling is given through the baptism in Christ name just as Acts 2:38 says.

First think pops in my mind, how do we get rid of our sins then?

I really think you need to look at 1 Cor chapter 14 and read it slowly.

Being baptized in JESUS name has one propose, that is to remove our sins.

That is something we have to do, being baptized in the spirit is something JESUS does some people get it quick, others don't.

We are ALL suppose to be JESUS disciples and do HIS will, BUT 1 Cor chapter 14 explains some of us will be preachers down to trash men we all have a propose and need each other.

Like Phillip in Acts 8, he sure could get the message out but didn't get the gift of helping others receive the Holy Ghost that JESUS gave Peter and John.

One the head the other a toe and we all have to word together to make a body in the church.

BUT WE ALL need to be reborn first, to be reborn JESUS said we need both which is was present in Acts 2,8,10 and 19.

JESUS speaking in John and Mark

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16-17
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

JESUS says we need BOTH and they are two separate things, and in Mark JESUS says we will speak with new tongues. Just like in Acts 2,8,10 and 19 there was no difference between them except the order in which they were given.

When some is filled they will speak in tongues and JESUS thought the Holy Ghost gives us different jobs.

GOD BLESS YOU.

 

[FlyingDove]

So STILL can't find the way to answer my quesiotions or do you think reading more of HIS word removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost????

We don't need to repent or do anything, EVERYONE is reborn!

Here's how to have sins removed & be born again:

Jn 12:32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.”
(NOTE: He was in fact lifted up, on a cross & from the grave. Christ' Holy Spirit will draw EVERYONE to receive sin forgiveness)

Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
(NOTE: Thayer's Greek Lexicon - δειπνέω, δείπνῳ: (future δειπνήσω; 1 aorist ἐδείπνησα; (δεῖπνον); to sup. I will make him to share in my most intimate and blissful contact: Rev 3:20.)

1 Jn 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Lk 11:9 “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”
(NOTE: All the Samaritan woman had to do was ASK for the LIVING water/Holy Spirit. Sin forgiveness & salvation are ask‑based, not ritual/works‑based.)

Jn 4:13–14 “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst… it shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Jn 7:37–39 Jesus explains what “living water” actually means: “This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive…”
(NOTE When the Lord gives/places His Holy Spirit IN-YOU. You are now born from above = Born Again! (Gal 4:26, Gal 4:29 & Jn 3:3 Born Again is a SPIRITUAL birth that only Jesus can do/does (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:18 Lk 3:16).

Acts 16:30–31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(NOTE: What do I need to do? """Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you will be saved""")

He drew you to this crossroads (Jn 12:32), He is knocking at the door (Rev 3:20), You acknowledge you’re a sinner in need of rescue, You pray to Him and say: Forgive me, Come into my life & be my Lord. That is asking (Matt 7:7; Lk 11:9; Jn 4:10). And He is faithful to forgive (1 Jn 1:9).

You have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ & Scripture says you are saved (Acts 16:31; Rom 10:11,13; Jn 3:15–18).

At the moment of faith, the Lord places His forever (Jn 14:16) indwelling, life‑giving, salvation‑sealing Spirit in you (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; 2 Tim 1:14). This is the “living water” Jesus promised (Jn 7:37–39).

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

At salvation, Scripture teaches a once‑for‑all, total, complete, past‑present‑future forgiveness based on Christ’s finished sin atoning work.

This is judicial forgiveness, Supreme court verdict. It happens once & it covers every sin you ever did & ever will commit. Amen

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(NOTE: “Transgressions” = Greek parabaseōn (from parabasis): deliberate violations, boundary‑crossing, covenant‑breaking acts. Christ’s death redeems intentional law‑breaking, not just generic sin.).

Jesus did/does ALL the work: He conquers sin, He faithfully forgives, He baptizes & seals the believer with His Spirit & He stands as our Advocate. All we have to do is TRUST Him...

1 John 2:1 teaches that when believers sin, Jesus Himself is our Advocate, our defense, our representative, our intercessor before the Father. He doesn’t plead our innocence, He pleads His righteousness.

All the praise, glory & honor belongs to our great god & Savior (Titus 2:13) Jesus the Christ. Amen

 

[Biilybob65]

First think pops in my mind, how do we get rid of our sins then?

I really think you need to look at 1 Cor chapter 14 and read it slowly.

Being baptized in JESUS name has one propose, that is to remove our sins.

That is something we have to do, being baptized in the spirit is something JESUS does some people get it quick, others don't.

We are ALL suppose to be JESUS disciples and do HIS will, BUT 1 Cor chapter 14 explains some of us will be preachers down to trash men we all have a propose and need each other.

Like Phillip in Acts 8, he sure could get the message out but didn't get the gift of helping others receive the Holy Ghost that JESUS gave Peter and John.

One the head the other a toe and we all have to word together to make a body in the church.

BUT WE ALL need to be reborn first, to be reborn JESUS said we need both which is was present in Acts 2,8,10 and 19.

JESUS speaking in John and Mark

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Mark 16:16-17
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

JESUS says we need BOTH and they are two separate things, and in Mark JESUS says we will speak with new tongues. Just like in Acts 2,8,10 and 19 there was no difference between them except the order in which they were given.

When some is filled they will speak in tongues and JESUS thought the Holy Ghost gives us different jobs.

GOD BLESS YOU.

You ask how do we get out sins removed? It is in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that we get remission of sin Acts 2:38
You aid that we must be reborn first that is where you are missing the point the scriptures are speaking of. If you read Romans 6 there Paul lays it out how we are reborn . I don't know how to say it any different Please read Romans chapter 6 and let me know what it says to you for it tells me it is the new birth being discussed. It is telling what happened when you were baptized with the baptism of Acts 2:38

Yes being baptized in the spirit is a work of God and it happens when one is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ just as it says it will in Acts 2:38 and described in Roman 6 your old sinful life is buried in the watery grave and your arise in a new spirit filled life just as Romans 6 explains. Roman 6 is talking about Acts 2;38

Acts 2:38 is the spirit baptism that Jesus was to baptize with. It is the one that he has authorized . It is the one that removes sin and gives the spirit again see Romans 6 .

Now you have to learn to separate the spirit within and the spirit upon. Until you can grasp the difference you will not get the full picture. The power gift of the spirit was not, I repeat was not the gift of Acts 2:38, the gift of the holy ghost of Acts 2:38, was the spirit himself, the indwelling which was promised to everyone, and shown to be the case in Romans 6. it is why the baptism of Acts 2:38 is the spirit baptism that John said Jesus would baptize with. Everyone receives the indwelling spirit, but the power for witness you keep talking about is for witnessing to build new churches. it is for a time until the word is established, but once the word is established the power of witness will go away for it is no longer needed.

Yes we still will have special gifts just not supernatural like the power of witness those served there purpose and are no longer needed.

Yes Philip is a good example of what I am trying to get you to see. Philip had hands laid on him to give him the power of witness it was not from a baptism of Jesus it was the Apostles laying on hands that gave Philip the power of witness. He got the indwelling when he was baptized in the baptism of Acts 2:38 but not the power of witness is had to be transfer to him. Just like when he preached the gospel to those in Acts 8 they heard and believed and was baptized with the baptism of Acts 2:38. The got their sins removed and received the indwelling spirit just as everyone was promised. Philip has to go on his way to spread the gospel and plant more churches so he needs to transfer the power of witness to this group so they can grow this new plant while Philip is away but he can't transfer the power only the Apostles can transfer the power so he calls on Peter to do this. Not all get the power of witness only those the Apostles lay hands on. The power of witness is not the promised gift of the holy ghost the spirit Himself (the indwelling) is the promised gift.

Yes we each have our own gifts to edify the church but they are not the same as the supernatural gifts for witness those served their time and are no longer needed.

you say we need both the born again of John three and the baptism in Christ name of Mark 16 I am trying to show you with scripture that we do and it is in the baptism of Acts 2:38 where we get both in then one. Ephesians 4:4 says there is one baptism and I am trying to show you the scriptures which say that the one baptism is that of Acts 2:38

You said "When some is filled they will speak in tongues and JESUS thought the Holy Ghost gives us different jobs. " Yes and no. The gift of tongues was a supernatural gift that was only given by the laying on of the Apostles hands. That is the only way scripture say it happened with the exception of The Apostle and the household of Cornelius. The gifts we get are for edifying and are not the same as the supernal ones for witness. There is a difference and you have to understand that.

 

[Ouch]

Here's how to have sins removed & be born again:

Jn 12:32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.”
(NOTE: He was in fact lifted up, on a cross & from the grave. Christ' Holy Spirit will draw EVERYONE to receive sin forgiveness)

Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
(NOTE: Thayer's Greek Lexicon - δειπνέω, δείπνῳ: (future δειπνήσω; 1 aorist ἐδείπνησα; (δεῖπνον); to sup. I will make him to share in my most intimate and blissful contact: Rev 3:20.)

1 Jn 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Lk 11:9 “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”
(NOTE: All the Samaritan woman had to do was ASK for the LIVING water/Holy Spirit. Sin forgiveness & salvation are ask‑based, not ritual/works‑based.)

Jn 4:13–14 “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst… it shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Jn 7:37–39 Jesus explains what “living water” actually means: “This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive…”
(NOTE When the Lord gives/places His Holy Spirit IN-YOU. You are now born from above = Born Again! (Gal 4:26, Gal 4:29 & Jn 3:3 Born Again is a SPIRITUAL birth that only Jesus can do/does (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:18 Lk 3:16).

Acts 16:30–31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(NOTE: What do I need to do? """Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you will be saved""")

He drew you to this crossroads (Jn 12:32), He is knocking at the door (Rev 3:20), You acknowledge you’re a sinner in need of rescue, You pray to Him and say: Forgive me, Come into my life & be my Lord. That is asking (Matt 7:7; Lk 11:9; Jn 4:10). And He is faithful to forgive (1 Jn 1:9).

You have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ & Scripture says you are saved (Acts 16:31; Rom 10:11,13; Jn 3:15–18).

At the moment of faith, the Lord places His forever (Jn 14:16) indwelling, life‑giving, salvation‑sealing Spirit in you (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; 2 Tim 1:14). This is the “living water” Jesus promised (Jn 7:37–39).

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

At salvation, Scripture teaches a once‑for‑all, total, complete, past‑present‑future forgiveness based on Christ’s finished sin atoning work.

This is judicial forgiveness, Supreme court verdict. It happens once & it covers every sin you ever did & ever will commit. Amen

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(NOTE: “Transgressions” = Greek parabaseōn (from parabasis): deliberate violations, boundary‑crossing, covenant‑breaking acts. Christ’s death redeems intentional law‑breaking, not just generic sin.).

Jesus did/does ALL the work: He conquers sin, He faithfully forgives, He baptizes & seals the believer with His Spirit & He stands as our Advocate. All we have to do is TRUST Him...

1 John 2:1 teaches that when believers sin, Jesus Himself is our Advocate, our defense, our representative, our intercessor before the Father. He doesn’t plead our innocence, He pleads His righteousness.

All the praise, glory & honor belongs to our great god & Savior (Titus 2:13) Jesus the Christ. Amen

LOL, so just read those verses?

We don't need to do anything at all!

Explain WHY did Peter give this message???

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Wnat did Peter say and what did he mean?

Sin WILL not enter heaven, your life depends on it.

No need for a bible study, just tell me.

 

[FlyingDove]

LOL, so just read those verses?

We don't need to do anything at all!

Explain WHY did Peter give this message???

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Wnat did Peter say and what did he mean?

Sin WILL not enter heaven, your life depends on it.

No need for a bible study, just tell me.

It's been explained, Acts transitional book """from law to grace""" (Temple Mt - "Jews Only" - Special kingdom opening event - order inverts Acts 10 - Receive H/S then get baptized).

Acts 26:17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, """""unto whom now I send thee"""",

Paul is Christ' chosen apostle sent to gentile'. He writes most of the NT & is given most of the hidden mystery's to be revealed. For whatever reason you reject most of the NT.

Paul did not choose himself. The church did not choose him. Jesus Christ Himself chose, called, and commissioned Paul.

Paul the master builder of the NT Church/Body of Christ:
Never commands tongues, never commands laying on of hands for the Spirit, never repeats Acts 2:38, never ties water to salvation, REPEATEDLY preaches, FAITHP ALONE!

 

[Biilybob65]

Here's how to have sins removed & be born again:

Jn 12:32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.”
(NOTE: He was in fact lifted up, on a cross & from the grave. Christ' Holy Spirit will draw EVERYONE to receive sin forgiveness)

Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
(NOTE: Thayer's Greek Lexicon - δειπνέω, δείπνῳ: (future δειπνήσω; 1 aorist ἐδείπνησα; (δεῖπνον); to sup. I will make him to share in my most intimate and blissful contact: Rev 3:20.)

1 Jn 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Lk 11:9 “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.”

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”
(NOTE: All the Samaritan woman had to do was ASK for the LIVING water/Holy Spirit. Sin forgiveness & salvation are ask‑based, not ritual/works‑based.)

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”

Jn 7:37–39 Jesus explains what “living water” actually means: “This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive…”
(NOTE When the Lord gives/places His Holy Spirit IN-YOU. You are now born from above = Born Again! (Gal 4:26, Gal 4:29 & Jn 3:3 Born Again is a SPIRITUAL birth that only Jesus can do/does (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:18 Lk 3:16).

Acts 16:30–31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(NOTE: What do I need to do? """Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you will be saved""")

He drew you to this crossroads (Jn 12:32), He is knocking at the door (Rev 3:20), You acknowledge you’re a sinner in need of rescue, You pray to Him and say: Forgive me, Come into my life & be my Lord. That is asking (Matt 7:7; Lk 11:9; Jn 4:10). And He is faithful to forgive (1 Jn 1:9).

You have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ & Scripture says you are saved (Acts 16:31; Rom 10:11,13; Jn 3:15–18).

At the moment of faith, the Lord places His forever (Jn 14:16) indwelling, life‑giving, salvation‑sealing Spirit in you (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; 2 Tim 1:14). This is the “living water” Jesus promised (Jn 7:37–39).

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

At salvation, Scripture teaches a once‑for‑all, total, complete, past‑present‑future forgiveness based on Christ’s finished sin atoning work.

This is judicial forgiveness, Supreme court verdict. It happens once & it covers every sin you ever did & ever will commit. Amen


Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(NOTE: “Transgressions” = Greek parabaseōn (from parabasis): deliberate violations, boundary‑crossing, covenant‑breaking acts. Christ’s death redeems intentional law‑breaking, not just generic sin.).

Jesus did/does ALL the work: He conquers sin, He faithfully forgives, He baptizes & seals the believer with His Spirit & He stands as our Advocate. All we have to do is TRUST Him...

1 John 2:1 teaches that when believers sin, Jesus Himself is our Advocate, our defense, our representative, our intercessor before the Father. He doesn’t plead our innocence, He pleads His righteousness.

All the praise, glory & honor belongs to our great god & Savior (Titus 2:13) Jesus the Christ. Amen

Jn 12:32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.” This was fulfilled and in Acts 2 he started drawing all to him through the gospel call which called for response in baptism in his name.

Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Was addressing the church of the Laodiceans which has become lukewarm and is calling them to repent it is not a call of salvation to the lost. Context my dear brother context makes a world of difference.

1 Jn 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Here he is talking to the saved telling them how to remain saved by walking in the light. This passage does not address the coming to faith but is addressed to the faithful saints.

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” this passage is told how the gospel answers this it is really not a salvation verse but a general verse of ask anything in my name and it will be answered thus making it more of a already saved statement rather than a to get saved passage.

Lk 11:9 “And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” This one is the same as Matthew 7 therefore the same response as to Matthew 7 above

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.” This one is played out in Acts 2 they heard the gospel and asked what must I do and was told to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and shall receive the gift of the holy ghost (the living water)

Jn 4:10 “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.” again played out in Acts 2 and confirmed in Romans 6

Jn 7:37–39 Jesus explains what “living water” actually means: “This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive…” Again played out in Acts 2:38 and confirmed in Romans 6

Acts 16:30–31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
here they did not just tell them to believe but went on to tell them what to believe (the gospel) and it ended with them believing the same gospel as Acts 2 and ended with the same results as Acts 2 with the baptism in the name of Christ.

He drew you to this crossroads (Jn 12:32), He is knocking at the door (Rev 3:20), You acknowledge you’re a sinner in need of rescue, You pray to Him and say: Forgive me, Come into my life & be my Lord. That is asking (Matt 7:7; Lk 11:9; Jn 4:10). And He is faithful to forgive (1 Jn 1:9). All out of context scriptures thrown together to support mans doctrine not the doctrine of Christ

You have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ & Scripture says you are saved (Acts 16:31; Rom 10:11,13; Jn 3:15–18). scripture say to believe the words of Christ what he teaches about all subjects it does not say just believe he was Gods son but the message he was sent to deliver to all the world and all that believed the message would be saved for his words are truth and life.

At the moment of faith, the Lord places His forever (Jn 14:16) indwelling, life‑giving, salvation‑sealing Spirit in you (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; 2 Tim 1:14). This is the “living water” Jesus promised (Jn 7:37–39). This statement is contradiction to what the Lord had recorded in Acts two and many other passages so do I believe the teaching of man or the words of God only one has the truth and life.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. and he tells us in Acts 2 how this sanctification comes about.

At salvation, Scripture teaches a once‑for‑all, total, complete, past‑present‑future forgiveness based on Christ’s finished sin atoning work.
Yes we see this in Acts 2 Romans 6 and many other passages.


This is judicial forgiveness, Supreme court verdict. It happens once & it covers every sin you ever did & ever will commit. Amen Yes again Acts 2 and Mark 16:16 and Romans 6 and many other passages.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Yes he is the author of the new testament his words are truth and life all his words and he calls us with his words trough the gospel and tells us how to respond to the call.

Jesus did/does ALL the work: He conquers sin, He faithfully forgives, He baptizes & seals the believer with His Spirit & He stands as our Advocate. All we have to do is TRUST Him... Yes Amen and we read this in Acts 2 where he started adding to the church for the first time when he opened the doors it is all covered in that one chapter where the fulfilled gospel was preached in completion for the first time. The kingdom was no longer to come but came into existence that day.

 

[Ouch]

It's been explained, Acts transitional book """from law to grace""" (Temple Mt - "Jews Only" - Special kingdom opening event - order inverts Acts 10 - Receive H/S then get baptized).

Acts 26:17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, """""unto whom now I send thee"""",

Paul is Christ' chosen apostle sent to gentile'. He writes most of the NT & is given most of the hidden mystery's to be revealed. For whatever reason you reject most of the NT.

Paul did not choose himself. The church did not choose him. Jesus Christ Himself chose, called, and commissioned Paul.

Paul the master builder of the NT Church/Body of Christ:
Never commands tongues, never commands laying on of hands for the Spirit, never repeats Acts 2:38, never ties water to salvation, REPEATEDLY preaches, FAITHP ALONE!

Is that what it says and means.

You have no idea and then try use HIS word to back up you have no idea.

You can't tell me how to get rid of sins.

You can't tell me what I must do to be saved.

Who are you work for?

 

[Ouch]

It's been explained, Acts transitional book """from law to grace""" (Temple Mt - "Jews Only" - Special kingdom opening event - order inverts Acts 10 - Receive H/S then get baptized).

Acts 26:17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, """""unto whom now I send thee"""",

Paul is Christ' chosen apostle sent to gentile'. He writes most of the NT & is given most of the hidden mystery's to be revealed. For whatever reason you reject most of the NT.

Paul did not choose himself. The church did not choose him. Jesus Christ Himself chose, called, and commissioned Paul.

Paul the master builder of the NT Church/Body of Christ:
Never commands tongues, never commands laying on of hands for the Spirit, never repeats Acts 2:38, never ties water to salvation, REPEATEDLY preaches, FAITHP ALONE!

I don't think you understand the only transition going on from the book of Acts is people be transition from death unto life.

Paul didn't have his own gospel, Paul letters were to churches who have the foundation of the book of Acts. He was NOT addressing the UNSAVED.

Look who the letters are addressed to,

1 Corinthians 1
King James Version
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

2 Corinthians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Romans 1
King James Version
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1
King James Version
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Colossians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

All letters after the book of Thessalonians had nothing to do with Paul's ministry to churches.

Back to Paul, proving Paul follow JESUS along with the rest of JESUS disciples this in him with the beginning or foundation of the church in Ephesus.

Paul who approached some folks to see if they received the Holy Ghost.

Which started the church in Ephesus.

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

After Paul baptized those folk and they received the Holy Ghost he stayed there for 2 to 3 years preaching which build that church which must have included Jews and greeks.

So if Paul aproced you and asked you, have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed, what would you say?

FYI, I don't have to be right about anything, this is not about me being right it's not about me at all, it's ALL about JESUS.

 

[FlyingDove]

Jn 12:32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.”

This was fulfilled and in Acts 2 he started drawing all to him through the gospel call which called for response in baptism in his name.

John 12:32 doesn’t mention baptism, Acts 2, or any ritual response.

Jesus explains exactly what He means two verses later:

John 12:33 This He said, signifying what death He should die.

The ""lifting up"" is the cross, not a baptismal formula.

The drawing is the universal call of the crucified Christ, not a water‑based response system.

If Jesus meant, ""I will draw all to Me through water baptism"". He would have said so.

Instead, He tied the drawing directly to His death, not to a ritual.

Acts 2 is not the fulfillment of John 12:32 > the cross is.

Pentecost is the announcement of what the cross accomplished, not the mechanism of drawing.

And even in Acts 2, the drawing happens before baptism: (1ST) They hear the gospel, (2nd) They are "cut to the heart", (3rd) They ask "What shall we do?" < That is the drawing.

Baptism is not the cause! It's the public identification after they already believed the message (Acts 2:41).

John 12:32 = Christ draws by His crucifixion.

Acts 2 = Christ draws by His preached word.

Neither passage says water causes forgiveness.

 

[Biilybob65]

John 12:32 doesn’t mention baptism, Acts 2, or any ritual response.

Jesus explains exactly what He means two verses later:

John 12:33 This He said, signifying what death He should die.

The ""lifting up"" is the cross, not a baptismal formula.

The drawing is the universal call of the crucified Christ, not a water‑based response system.

If Jesus meant, ""I will draw all to Me through water baptism"". He would have said so.

Instead, He tied the drawing directly to His death, not to a ritual.

Acts 2 is not the fulfillment of John 12:32 > the cross is.

Pentecost is the announcement of what the cross accomplished, not the mechanism of drawing.

And even in Acts 2, the drawing happens before baptism: (1ST) They hear the gospel, (2nd) They are "cut to the heart", (3rd) They ask "What shall we do?" < That is the drawing.

Baptism is not the cause! It's the public identification after they already believed the message (Acts 2:41).

John 12:32 = Christ draws by His crucifixion.

Acts 2 = Christ draws by His preached word.

Neither passage says water causes forgiveness.

Yes the lifting up is the cross and Paul says in Romans 6:3 that is is is the baptism in Christ name is where we are baptized into his death. That my friend is a biblical fact and what you do with it is your choice. Either you believe or you don't but it will not change the biblical fact.

 

[FlyingDove]

Yes the lifting up is the cross and Paul says in Romans 6:3 that is is is the baptism in Christ name is where we are baptized into his death. That my friend is a biblical fact and what you do with it is your choice. Either you believe or you don't but it will not change the biblical fact.

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

2ndly, Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You just added the to scripture.

Romans 3:
20 — No one is justified by works of the law.
22 — Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
26 — God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
28 — A person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
30 — God justifies Jew and Gentile through faith

Rom 4:
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he could boast, but he wasn’t.
3 Abraham believed God & it was counted to him for righteousness.
5 God justifies the ungodly through faith.
6 David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
9–11 Abraham was counted righteous before circumcision — proving righteousness comes by faith, not ritual.
16 The promise is by faith, so it may be by grace.
22–24 Righteousness is imputed to all who believe.

Rom 5:
1 “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”
2 We have access by faith into grace.
9 We are justified by His blood (not by works or rituals).

The Apostle HAMMERS Justification thru FAITH. In Chapters 3,4 & 5. Then suddenly in Rom 6, he's citing justification thru water ritual?

Paul repeatedly teaches: Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works, rituals, or law‑keeping

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

Rom 6:4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

Paul’s entire point in Romans 6 is union with Christ & a ritual.

Additional help same writer:

Gal 3:2 Did you receive the ""Spirit"" by works or by hearing with faith???

Eph 1:13 ""Having believed"", you were sealed with the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ baptizes with/in the Holy Spirit.)

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ"":
(MY NOTE: Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. It's a SPIRITUAL circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands & without H2O"")

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(MY NOTE: Not water baptism, READ the CONTEXT verse above: The ""circumcision of Christ"" ""made without hands"". The old covenant required a physical circumcision. The new covenant requires a Spiritual circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands"")

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: You once were dead in sin. Christ' spiritual circumcision/Holy Spirit baptism ""done without hands & without water"". Has quickened = made you Spiritually alive. He immersed you with His FOREVER (Jn 16:14) indwelling Holy Spirit. It's Christ' free eternal life giving (gift Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24), salvation sealing (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30) Holy Spirit quickens/regenerates/makes you spiritually alive. NO H2O NEEDED!)