Rapture true or false
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In a round about way you are saying all people , including your self righteous self, are "taking it personal", on any challenge where someone goes personal on them.
All that effort you waste in trying to minimize people could go into thoughtful debate.
I am not saying ANYTHING you are attaching to me.
You literally are inventing character flaws.
Plain goofy.
Correct. OT Jacob now NT Israel of God's trouble on earth.
Matth 13:20
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
2Th 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
Rom 8:35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Israel after the flesh like any other nation on the earth, has the same natural and sinful troubles.
Because in Matt 15:3 Jesus condemns them as hypocrites, quoting:
Isaiah 29:13: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
These End of Time, nominal Christians are believing and following, the Roman Catholic Church's Anti-Christ's doctrines, and traditions, who "... shall think to change the times and the law..." Daniel 7: 25
The anti-Christ is wanting to destroy any correct interpretation of prophetic time periods, as in books like Daniel and Revelation, where events such as "time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:25), "forty-two months" (Revelation 11:2), and "1,260 days" (Revelation 12:6) are commonly interpreted as only 1260 literal DAYS. Helping the RCC obfuscate the Papacies true nature as Antichrist and it's 1260 YEARS of Papal dominance during the "dark Ages"
Rather than God's prophetic timing of "a day, for a year" principle, from Numbers 14:34 & Ezekiel 4:6 This principle is also used to interpret Daniel’s 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24–27), where 70 "weeks" (each week representing seven years) equal 490 years, marking the timeline from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah.
2 Thess 2:3-8 "... that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. ( in our body, temple ) ... For the mystery of iniquity does already work..."
There are ONLY two Spirit's in this world, those who Love God, and those who hate God's Character ( His Law ) Those who are obedient, and BY FAITH, having the "Righteousness of Christ, which is the keeping God's Law of Love Matt 22:37, and those who are disobedient, following after the traditions and doctrines of the Antichrist spirit in this world.
In our present day religious christian world, the Disobedient to God are easily recognized by their obedience to the RCC's changing of God's Sabbath, to the Pagan day of Worship, "The venerable Day of the Sun" which nominal christians call "The Lords Day" contrary to Jesus saying, "For the Son of Man is Lord of the (7th Day) Sabbath." Matthew 12:8
Exactly ~~> "Jesus IS our sabbath rest." He has always been our Sabbath Rest, since BEFORE the Fall of sin.
This is exactly what God's Seventh Day Sabbath IS ... resting in Jesus, our God .. The Creator of Heaven and Earth.
God only made two institutions at creation, the Sabbath and marriage, one is our spiritual connection with God, and the other is our physical / spiritual connection with another human of the opposite sex, to "be fruitful and multiple" This is why the 4th Commandment says "Remember" ... we are commanded to remember how it was in the Garden, BEFORE sin, how we walked and communed in the cool of the day, with our Creator God, resting from the weekly labors of tending the gardens of Eden and procreating.
Which is why we believers of Jesus, rest and commune with God on His Holy Day, the Seventh Day Sabbath, as Jesus Commands
John 14:15 states: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
Your Right, I am trying to provoke you "non-Sabbathing" people, to come to Jesus, as our Lord and King. For Jesus, told you "pharisee types" ... "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Matthew 12:8
It doesn't bother me that you, mock me ... John 15:18–21,
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.”
Y'all's mocking and ridicule, only proves that I am representing Jesus as He would have me,
( Matthew 28:20 ) Your mocking of God's Sabbath is just an indication of which side you are on, in this "Cosmic Conflict between Jesus and His Angels & Satan and His Angels", for the souls of men.
Truly !! I wish for you ALL to Be Blessed This Sabbath Day, ... Prayerfully, by what I have taught, here this Holy Day
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I have recently embraced the pre-trib view. It is the view I was taught when I was saved and I should of stuck with it instead of wondering off into chaos.
The pre-tribulation rapture not only preserves imminence but also explains so many things, such as who inherits the kingdom in the flesh, and no it is not unbelievers.
The only way to make a post-tribulation rapture work is if you are amillennial or postmillennial.
The way to realize that "the rapture" ( a man made concept ) is actually referring to the "being caught up, into the air, with Jesus at His second coming, is to believing Jesus and His Prophecy pointing to the 3 1/2 year, 42 month, 1260 days = 1260 YEARS, as I explained in the above #448 post. The Antichrist manufactured, and then indoctrinated us, during these last 500+ years, with this "7 years" pre-tribulation concept, to deceive people way from the Truth, away from Jesus and towards perdition.
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Not true. I can futurism from the 2nd century in Irenaeus' writings. This is something historicists like to repeat with no evidence.
Try to find me a single early Church father who claimed the 1260 days is 1260 years. Now that is a new teaching.
And at the end of the day who cares about the ECFs and what they believed, lets go by what the Bible teaches.
I admit that though I've heard of " Irenaeus", I knew very little of his theological stance. But with our modern access to the knowledge of the world, thru the WWW and the AI search engine, here is what I've learned;
My query prompt; "Is there a futurist biblical theology as Francisco Ribera de Villacastín explained it, mentioned in the 2nd century writings of Irenaeus ?"
AI Web Search said:
I agree with Irenaeus " the “last days” would bring a final judgment and the full establishment of the Kingdom." and " Reject purely symbolic readings of prophetic texts." But neither of these ideas, support the futurist theology of Ribera. as you are insinuating.
This argument is moot, in light of understanding Bible Prophecy, the way GOD tells us to understand it, ... one oh which is God's "day for a year" principle,
Yeah, that would be novel ! ... since the Book of Daniel was sealed "until the end" . Your not going to find any "early church fathers" able to understand, or comment on these events, because they hadn't happened yet.
Daniel 12:4 "records the angel’s instruction to Daniel: "But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end." This command signifies that the prophecies revealed to Daniel were to be preserved and not fully disclosed until the final period of history."
Here below is a post I made on this subject, from a few months ago, that might help your understanding
I agree ! Let us go by what the Bible teaches, exclusively, rather than what the Roman ant-Christ Church has been developing and promoting these last 500 literal years. ie. dispensationalism / Preterism
I'll repeat ! Jesus was a "historicist"
Here is evidence, that you are failing to realize.
John 14:29 "I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you may believe."
This verse highlights that Jesus revealed future events in advance so His disciples—and believers—would have evidence to strengthen their faith when those events occurred. The purpose of biblical prophecy is not only to predict the future but to confirm God’s sovereignty and truth, leading people to believe in Him.
2 Peter 1:21 "21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. " ~~> affirms, prophecy came not from human interpretation but from God, who moved holy men to speak His words, ensuring their reliability and divine origin
The 70‑week prophecy (Daniel 9:24‑27) and the 2300‑day prophecy (Daniel 8:13‑14) are presented in scripture as two portions of one continuous prophetic timetable.
Both visions are given by the same angelic messenger (Gabriel) and are linked in the text (Daniel 8:13‑14 “the vision of the 2 300 days” is explained in Daniel 9). The angel tells Daniel that the “weeks” are “cut off” (Hebrew chathak) from the longer period of 2 300 days.
The only period from which the 70 weeks could be cut off is the 2300 days, that being the only period of time mentioned in the vision of chapter 8. The 70 weeks must therefore be a part of the 2300 days, and the two periods must begin together.”
The day‑for‑a‑year principle
The day‑year principle is a hermeneutical rule supplied by Scripture itself (e.g., Numbers 14:34, Ezek 4:6, Daniel 9:24). Applying it:
- Start‑point: The decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Artaxerxes V, 457 BC) – the same decree used for the 70‑week calculation.
- 70 weeks = 490 years: 457 BC + 490 years = AD 33 (the year of the crucifixion).
- Remaining 2300 – 490 = 1 810 years: Adding 1 810 years to AD 33 brings us to AD 1844, the year the 2300‑day (2300‑year) prophecy ends and the heavenly sanctuary is “cleansed” (the investigative judgment)
I just had to do a search, to find out how dispensationalist (futurist) interpret these 2300 "days", by not using God's "day / year" principle) ... something about a future temple being built, for the anti-Christ, or some other pure garbage, of prophetic understanding
Like I've said in past post, historical documents, tell that "futurism" (dispensationalism) was created, developed, then promoted by the Jesuits of the Roman anti-Christ Church, these past 500 years, being unheard of before then. That should tell you A LOT, ALONE.
IE. .. It's NOT Apostolic Christianity, but a construct of Satan, to deceive man, AWAY from Christ, redemption and Salvation.
A 2300 literal day time period, should NOT be interpreted as a stand alone, some 6.39 year period, as a futurist "concoction" for a future "temple", when Jesus said that the Jewish temple would be destroyed, not one stone left upon another. ... cuz it isn't needed any longer, alone with the Mosaic Law.
- Matthew 12:6 (ESV): "I tell you, something greater than the temple is here."
- ... and that the ceremonial laws concerning the temple have been "nailed to the cross" doing away with the Mosaic Law, and leaving just God's Law .. the 10 Commandments, the moral laws, the Law of Love John 14:15 , Matthew 22:37-40 , No need of a physical temple, built with stone, now, ... we have Jesus, living in our "body temple"
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Hummmm ! Very interesting !
Where did every one disappear to? ... You folks have a "cognitive dissonance" flare-up, where THE TRUTH, contradicts your perceived "belief system" ?
Cognitive dissonance is what I experienced when I went to a Daniel / Revelation Prophecy seminar, presented by Adventists, ... learning "The Truth" about what & WHO the Spirit of Antichrist is in the world, these past 2000+ literal years, as all the original Protestant Reformers taught, and how I had been deceived, by "believing" the apostate Protestant Futurist / Dispensational theology, that has taken over the world these past couple hundred, End Time Years, as Jesus said it would.
During the last days of Earth’s history, there will be a rise in false religions, false prophets, and the man of lawlessness. Here are key Bible verses that speak to this theme:
I hope this has blessed, This Sabbath, ... for YOU ... I pray .... Amen !
Where did every one disappear to? ... You folks have a "cognitive dissonance" flare-up, where THE TRUTH, contradicts your perceived "belief system" ?
Cognitive dissonance is what I experienced when I went to a Daniel / Revelation Prophecy seminar, presented by Adventists, ... learning "The Truth" about what & WHO the Spirit of Antichrist is in the world, these past 2000+ literal years, as all the original Protestant Reformers taught, and how I had been deceived, by "believing" the apostate Protestant Futurist / Dispensational theology, that has taken over the world these past couple hundred, End Time Years, as Jesus said it would.
During the last days of Earth’s history, there will be a rise in false religions, false prophets, and the man of lawlessness. Here are key Bible verses that speak to this theme:
- Matthew 24:4-5 – "And Jesus answered and said to them: 'Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.'"
- This passage warns of false Christ’s and false prophets who will deceive many in these last days.
- Matthew 24:11 – "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."
- Jesus foretells an increase in false prophets who will mislead people during the end times.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 – "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
- Paul warns of the "man of sin" (the man of lawlessness), who will exalt himself above God, representing a false religious power.
- Revelation 13:11-14 – "Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth... and he performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast."
- This speaks of the false prophet, a deceptive figure who performs signs to mislead people.
- Revelation 14:9-11 – "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God..."
- Those who follow false religious powers will face God’s judgment, which includes worship of the "beast."
- Revelation 16:13-14 – "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
- This passage speaks of an unholy trinity—the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet—who will deceive the nations.
- 2 Peter 2:1 – "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies..."
- Peter warns of false teachers and prophets who will introduce destructive teachings.
- 1 Timothy 4:1 – "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons."
- Paul warns that in the last days, some will abandon the faith and follow deceptive spirits and doctrines.
- Revelation 17:1-5 – "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, 'Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters... and on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.'"
- This vision represents an apostate religious system, symbolized as Babylon, which leads people astray.
- Matthew 7:15-20 – "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."
- Jesus advises vigilance against false prophets who appear righteous but are harmful, and their true nature will be revealed by their actions. ... (= Lust, Pride & Lawlessness, (sinfulness) as in the Days of Noah, ... Y'all proclaiming God's 10 Commandments, "Old Testament", ARE NOT VALID nor BINDING, anymore.) ... "self-righteousness", rather than Christ Righteousness
I hope this has blessed, This Sabbath, ... for YOU ... I pray .... Amen !
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It is the same coming mate. Recapitulation. The book of Revelation rewinds back to the 1st century at the beginning of Rev 12.
Then Jesus, when coming in the air on white horses did a "time out" , parked millions of Horses, picked up a sickle, went and sat on a cloud, and gathered the Jewish main harvest to heaven, then went back to the air and got back on His horse and continued?
Is that how you blend it all together?
Oh wait, the gathering of rev 14:14 is DURING THE TRIB.
The second coming verse is AFTER THE TRIB.
Oh well.
I have always said postrib rapture is poorly thought out.