Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[FlyingDove]

Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Father is God: Jn 6:27, Rom 1:7, 1 Pet 1:2

Son is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 3:16, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 13:14

God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Genesis 1, Creator/God:

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
(NOTE: Jesus existed pre-incarnation & is from EVERLASTING)

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: Before creation existed. The Word/Son/Jesus was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(NOTE: God-Pre-incarnate Christ MADE/CREATED ALL THINGS! Christ/God the Son is the Genesis 1 creator)

Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(NOTE: Christ CREATED ALL THINGS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is our worlds Genesis 1 creator)

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(NOTE: Christ HOLDS ALL THINGS TOGETHER!)

Heb 1:
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(NOTE: Christ MADE THE WORLDS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is the Genesis 1 creator)

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(NOTE: Here God the Father directly calls the Son "God." This is not a title given by men, angels, or prophets. It's the Father Himself declaring the full deity of the Son. The Son has an eternal throne, proving He is not a created being and did not begin at Bethlehem.)

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows..
(NOTE: The Father continues speaking & says to the Son: God… your God… has anointed you.)

Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave/sent his Son)

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's; I was sent from heaven by the God the Father. Jesus claims heavenly origin, not earthly beginning. God Father sends the Son. Here God the Son begins the work of reconciliation/salvation.)

6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
(NOTE: We see the Son of man (Christ in the flesh) ascend (Acts 1:9-12). Going back to where he pre-existed)

Jn 8:23 Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, he's from above & not from this world)

8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(NOTE: The Son of God proclaims he preexisted)

Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came from the Father (“You cannot "come from" & "go to yourself.") He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)

KJV Dictionary Definition: BOSOM
Bosom, in composition, implies intimacy, affection and confidence; as a bosom-friend, an intimate or confidential friend; bosom-lover, bosom-interest, bosom-secret, etc

Gen 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
(NOTE: Bosom here describes the intimacy between Abram & Hagar that produced Ishmael)

2 Sam 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
(NOTE: Bosom here is also speaking to intimacy)

Before the world began! The Son lived in """GLORY"" in the """Bosom""" of the Father:

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the """bosom of the Father""".
(NOTE: A person cannot be in his own bosom. This requires two distinct persons.)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I wonder how many of us see and agree with what you've stated and connected here - It clearly the way I read you and the above translations has Peter saying baptism is an appeal - a request - to God for a good conscience, which you (and others) connect to forgiveness (and cleansing) of sins through (or by) the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter is saying this baptism/appeal saves.

Appreciate the input.

I'm starting to entertain another possibility for ἐπερώτημα. Instead of it being something originating from us, it is God's response to our entering into covenant relationship and responsibilities through the doorway of baptism. In other words, it's a judicial decision or declaration that remits our sins and cleanses our conscience. Daniel 4:17 (LXX) seems to convey this sense that it is a divine decree or edict from above.

The matter is by the decree of the watcher, and the response (ἐπερώτημα) is a word of the holy ones; that the living may known that the Lord is most high over the kingdom of men, and he will give it to whomsoever he shall please, and will set up over it that which is set at nought of men. Daniel 4:17​

​

The Theological Lexicon of the New Testament has the most interesting explanation I've found

But, on the one hand, it is hardly possible to imagine where this “prayer” would fit in the baptismal ceremony; and on the other hand this interpretation does not agree with the indicators supplied by the OT and the inscriptions. Theodotion’s version of Dan 4:17—rhēma hagiōn to eperōtēma (Aramaic šeʾaltaʾ)—suggests that the word should have the sense of “decision, resolution.” Manuscript א of Sir 36:3 has the variant eperōtēma for erōtēma: “The law is as worthy of confidence as the response of the oracle.” This is not a “request” but a “declaration,” above all an “oracular response,” which is the meaning of eperōtasis in P.Oxy. 1205, 9 ff., P.Lond. 1660, 42; Dittenberger, Syl. 977, 1. In addition, most modern scholars understand eperōtēma in the legal sense of commitment, stipulation, corresponding to the agreement formula in contracts, eperōtheis hōmologēsa;6 this would be the equivalent of the homologia of baptism (Rom 10:10; 1 Tim 6:12; Heb 4:14; 10:23), the commitment of the believer to the stipulations of the covenant, i.e., to submitting his whole life to God (cf. 1 Pet 1:22—hypakoē tēs alētheias; Heb 10:22). This oath of allegiance is antithetical to the disobedience of Noah’s contemporaries; it is the pledge of a person regenerated by the power of Christ’s resurrection, in which the believer shares through the baptismal rite (1 Pet 1:3; Rom 6:4; Col 2:12).

 

[FlyingDove]

Yeah the thing is God is gracious that doesn’t change anything else grace isn’t opposed to obeying God . It says he gave big grace because just before that he decided to destroy all humanity but gave Noah grace and told him about the flood and also instructed him how to be saved from it .


Grace doesn’t change whether a person needs to obey Gods word by faith

Post never claimed grace is opposed to obedience.

Faith flows from grace & leads to obedience.

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles call to obedience comes from FAITH)

Rom 16:26 Now revealed & made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience," "that comes from faith"
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles obedience is a direct result of their Faith)

With Faith as the root, obedience & good works will be the fruit.

 

[FlyingDove]

@Ouch

A new rabbit hole lol

Jesus the supreme creator of our universe, give's a baptismal formula: Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19).

Feel free to cite the scripture that commands we replaces Jesus cited formula & now use in use Jesus name only.

Acts doesn't command a new formula. It's identifying whose baptism it was (as opposed to John's, Jewish ritual washings, pagan rites etc). Every Acts reference is descriptive, showing allegiance & authority, NONE are prescriptive.

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) """""he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also""""".

(MY NOTE: Any person that comes forward to water baptism making a public statement: of belonging to the Lord & with a heart of self denial. WILL BE FINE! IMO Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19) is 1st choice. In Jesus name works too.)

You site 3 unique historical events expanding the gospel. And try to broad brush it into command doctrine. There many more cited cases that collapses your broad brush narrative.

1st Acts 2, Pentecost - Jews only - Church is born, BTW they spoke in real languages. Luke lists 15 different nations/languages:

Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judeans, Cappadocians, Pontians, Asians, Phrygians, Pamphylians, Egyptians, Libyans, Romans, Cretans, Arabians, And then he says: We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Acts 10, Gentiles also spoke in real languages & now included in covenants of promise (Eph 2:12)

Acts 19, John' 12 disciples who only knew John the Baptist’s WATER baptism, They also spoke in real languages & prophesied!

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Scripture never says every believer must experience those exact signs.

What it does say is that everyone SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH.

Will be FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEALED (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) with Christ' indwelling Holy Spirit. Yes, Jesus has filled me with His Spirit according to the promises in the New Covenant. Best wishes, FD

A new rabbit hole? Your the one who when down it in the first place.

I was asking questions about being reborn, your the one who started sharing scriptures you like without answering them.

FYI, Acts 2, 10 and 19 when JESUS filled them it was not in anyone's language you should look at them again.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

In Acts 2 the audience was Jew and Proselytes but it was not just for them, lets look at scripture.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Matthew 28:18-19
King James Version
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????

When we get past that we can then speak of baptism and the purpose of it.[/QUOTE]

Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN)

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(NOTE: EVERY JEW THAT TRAVELED TO PENTECOST (MANDATORY INDER MOSAIC LAW) HEARD THE MESSAGE IN THEIR OWN NATIONS LANGUAGE)

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM 15 DIFFERENTNATIONS AS SHARED EARLIER)

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
(NOTE: Ye men of Judaea/JEWS)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
(NOTE :THIS HOLY SPIRIT 15 DIFFERENT TOUNGE SPEAKING, IS A SPECIAL FORETOLD EVENT & DOESN'T HAPPEN TODAY EVERY TIME CHRIST INDWELLS A NEW BELIEVER)

22 “Ye men of Israel!
(NOTE: NO GENTILES ARE PART OF THIS SPECIAL EVENT. IF THEY WERE THEN WHY ARE PETER & THE JEWS WITH HIM ASTONISHED WHEN THE GENTILES RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ACTS 10:45?)

1 Corinthians 14:2? REALLY?

The Acts 2 special Pentecost event you claim is todays sign of salvation. Isn't the same event found in 1 Cor 14:2: HERE NOBODY (but the H/S) NOT EVEN THE PERSON SPEAKING, UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE'RE SAYING!.

You just may want to rethink this narrative your promoting.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Post never claimed grace is opposed to obedience.

Faith flows from grace & leads to obedience.

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles call to obedience comes from FAITH)

Rom 16:26 Now revealed & made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience," "that comes from faith"
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles obedience is a direct result of their Faith)

With Faith as the root, obedience & good works will be the fruit.

“Post never claimed grace is opposed to obedience.”

i haven’t said anyone claimed anything .

“Faith flows from grace & leads to obedience.”

His word when he was preaching the gospel is where faith comes from.

No one could believe this until they receive the seed of faith , Jesus word in the gospel

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭

That message Jesus first preached or whether it was his apostles witnessing it later , or even a pastor now days preaching that message that is where faith originates . We have to hear the gospel about Jesus and accept his word . His Grace , is the reason he sent his son into the world to save us , God loves mankind and is gracious towards us in Christ. That’s already been declared there’s grace to save lost sinners in Christ Jesus .

Faith is constructed for Christian’s when they start listening to Jesus preaching and teaching believers in him ( noting when he’s speaking to Pharisees and law teachers who despised him , or disciples who believed and listened to his word ) that parts important. Then the epistles become invaluable in maturing and growing from that foundation


Faith is like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness ( now Moses can have faith because he has heard Gods word ) over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”( now Moses has acted on faith doing what God called for him to do and acchieve a result foretold by the lords word )
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ie “ lift your hand and there will be darkness “ moses lifted his hand and there was darkness as the lord had spoken to and involved Moses in .

had God not included Moses action on what he said Moses wouldn’t have had to do anything but the word instructed him to lift his hand toward the heaven and then told him what would happen . Thats how faith operates. the origination is always whatever God has said and promised according to


“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

if jesus told you to do something and that a great blessing would happen . If you believed what he said then faith would move you to action . ( not you personally because I don’t know you but just any individual ) we have to hear what God said will save our souls in order to believe it and act upon it .

Grace was declared and shown when Jesus died for our sins faith is th e operation at this point . Us hearing the word and acting upon what we learn so we aren’t deceiving our own selves

 

[FlyingDove]

Spiritual oneness begins with & proceeds from the Father, who IS NOT the Son

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(NOTE: SPIRITUALLY ONE)

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, HERE, ALL THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN INDEWLT WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, HERE AGAIN, ALL THAT HAVE BEEN INDEWLT WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Additional scripture/food for thought:

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
(NOTE: Does one body = one person? NO! The millions/billions = ONE SPIRITUAL BODY)

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(NOTE: Christ is the head of the church: He is the savior of a NUMEROUS SPIRITUAL BODY ""OF ONE"")

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(NOTE: The HEAD of Christ, is God the the Father)

Scripture proclaims several times ""God the Father"" said to ""God the Son"" Sit at my right hand.

Ps 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

This cannot be one Person in two roles. It is the eternal Father exalting the eternal Son. Every time Scripture repeats this verse, it reinforces the same truth: Jesus is Lord, but He is not the Father.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: He ISN'T talking to HIMSELF!)

When Jesus prays to the Father:
1) IS HE PRAYING TO HIMSELF?

John 14:28 Jesus say's, the Father is greater then him:
2) DID JESUS LIE HERE?

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
(NOTE: Jesus said: I came from the Father, I leave this world & return to the Father IS HE RETURNING TO HIMSELF?).

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: The Father sent the Son. HE DIDN'T SEND HIMSELF)

Heb 10:12 (B&C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(NOTE: This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Jesus. AND HE DOESN'T SIT DOWN NEXT TO HIMSELF?)

Rev 5:7 And he (VS 5 the Loin of the tribe of Juda, vs 6 the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(Here again, this isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Lamb/Jesus. HE DOESN'T TAKE THE BOOK OUT OF HIS OWN HAND. Two distinct beings in two distinct locations performing two distinct actions!)

Rom 8:17 We're children, "heirs also", "heirs of God & fellow heirs with Christ
(NOTE: Believers are fellow heirs of God the Father with Christ. Is Christ/God an heir to himself?)

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, thru whom also He made the world
(NOTE: The God the Father appointed God the Son HEIR. The Father owned it (though they are Both of the same Godly nature/substance/matter/essence (Phil 2:6). They didn't have a CO-EQUAL share. The Father gave/appointed the Son heir of ALL things within our realm)

3 post resurrection verses where God the Son SITS DOWN IN HEAVEN at the right hand of God the Father Mk 16:19, Heb 1:3, Heb 10:12

God the Father sends God the Son:
Jn 3:16, 5:23, 30, 36 & 37, 6:38 & 39, 6:57, 8:42, 10;36, 12:49

God the Father gives to God the Son:
Jn 3:35, 5:22 & 26, 6:37&39, 10:29, 13:3 16:28

If the Father & Son are the same person, what's the point in any of the following verses? Everyone of these verses were written POST RESURRECTION!

Gal 1:1 & 3, Eph 6:23, Php 2:11, 1 Th 1:1, 2 Ti 1:2, Tit 1:4, 1 Pe 1:2, 2 Pe 1:17, 2 Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1 Jude

1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When all is complete/fulfilled (after the white throne). The Son will what? SUBJECT, ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIMSELF, unto the Father, that gave them to him. In our universe/realm Christ will FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his just works. And has GIVEN ALL THINGS WITHIN OUR UNIVERSE TO HIS SON, FOREVER!.

 

[Ouch]

A new rabbit hole? Your the one who when down it in the first place.

I was asking questions about being reborn, your the one who started sharing scriptures you like without answering them.

FYI, Acts 2, 10 and 19 when JESUS filled them it was not in anyone's language you should look at them again.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

In Acts 2 the audience was Jew and Proselytes but it was not just for them, lets look at scripture.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Matthew 28:18-19
King James Version
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????

When we get past that we can then speak of baptism and the purpose of it.

Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN)

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(NOTE: EVERY JEW THAT TRAVELED TO PENTECOST (MANDATORY INDER MOSAIC LAW) HEARD THE MESSAGE IN THEIR OWN NATIONS LANGUAGE)

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM 15 DIFFERENTNATIONS AS SHARED EARLIER)

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
(NOTE: Ye men of Judaea/JEWS)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
(NOTE :THIS HOLY SPIRIT 15 DIFFERENT TOUNGE SPEAKING, IS A SPECIAL FORETOLD EVENT & DOESN'T HAPPEN TODAY EVERY TIME CHRIST INDWELLS A NEW BELIEVER)

22 “Ye men of Israel!
(NOTE: NO GENTILES ARE PART OF THIS SPECIAL EVENT. IF THEY WERE THEN WHY ARE PETER & THE JEWS WITH HIM ASTONISHED WHEN THE GENTILES RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ACTS 10:45?)

1 Corinthians 14:2? REALLY?

The Acts 2 special Pentecost event you claim is todays sign of salvation. Isn't the same event found in 1 Cor 14:2: HERE NOBODY (but the H/S) NOT EVEN THE PERSON SPEAKING, UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE'RE SAYING!.

You just may want to rethink this narrative your promoting.[/QUOTE]


So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????

 

[Wansvic]

SO MUCH FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!!

Ok, so in Acts 10 JESUS filled them with Holy Ghsot and then was baptized.

Not sure why you bring in OT with Acts 19, but they were baptized and then JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.

I love 1 Cor.

Now that we know in Acts 10 and 19 they were baptized in JESUS name and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost WHO CARES IN WHAT ORDER they BOTH LINE UP WITH ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:5.

So HAS JESUS FILLED YOU LIKE HIS FILLED HIS DISCIPLES IN ACTS 2? how about like HE did with the Gentiles in Acts 10 OR how about like HE filled the ephesians in Acts 19???

I will be like Paul in Acts 19 SINCE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN FILLED HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????

Please click the Reply button on the bottom right of the person's post you are responding to. Otherwise it is not clear who your comments are directed toward.

 

[Wansvic]

Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Father is God: Jn 6:27, Rom 1:7, 1 Pet 1:2

Son is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 3:16, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 13:14

God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Genesis 1, Creator/God:

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
(NOTE: Jesus existed pre-incarnation & is from EVERLASTING)

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: Before creation existed. The Word/Son/Jesus was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(NOTE: God-Pre-incarnate Christ MADE/CREATED ALL THINGS! Christ/God the Son is the Genesis 1 creator)

Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(NOTE: Christ CREATED ALL THINGS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is our worlds Genesis 1 creator)

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(NOTE: Christ HOLDS ALL THINGS TOGETHER!)

Heb 1:
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(NOTE: Christ MADE THE WORLDS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is the Genesis 1 creator)

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(NOTE: Here God the Father directly calls the Son "God." This is not a title given by men, angels, or prophets. It's the Father Himself declaring the full deity of the Son. The Son has an eternal throne, proving He is not a created being and did not begin at Bethlehem.)

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows..
(NOTE: The Father continues speaking & says to the Son: God… your God… has anointed you.)

Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave/sent his Son)

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's; I was sent from heaven by the God the Father. Jesus claims heavenly origin, not earthly beginning. God Father sends the Son. Here God the Son begins the work of reconciliation/salvation.)

6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
(NOTE: We see the Son of man (Christ in the flesh) ascend (Acts 1:9-12). Going back to where he pre-existed)

Jn 8:23 Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, he's from above & not from this world)

8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(NOTE: The Son of God proclaims he preexisted)

Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came from the Father (“You cannot "come from" & "go to yourself.") He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)

KJV Dictionary Definition: BOSOM
Bosom, in composition, implies intimacy, affection and confidence; as a bosom-friend, an intimate or confidential friend; bosom-lover, bosom-interest, bosom-secret, etc

Gen 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
(NOTE: Bosom here describes the intimacy between Abram & Hagar that produced Ishmael)

2 Sam 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
(NOTE: Bosom here is also speaking to intimacy)

Before the world began! The Son lived in """GLORY"" in the """Bosom""" of the Father:

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the """bosom of the Father""".
(NOTE: A person cannot be in his own bosom. This requires two distinct persons.)

Who is this post for?

 

[FlyingDove]

Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN)

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(NOTE: EVERY JEW THAT TRAVELED TO PENTECOST (MANDATORY INDER MOSAIC LAW) HEARD THE MESSAGE IN THEIR OWN NATIONS LANGUAGE)

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
(NOTE: JEWS FROM 15 DIFFERENTNATIONS AS SHARED EARLIER)

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
(NOTE: Ye men of Judaea/JEWS)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
(NOTE :THIS HOLY SPIRIT 15 DIFFERENT TOUNGE SPEAKING, IS A SPECIAL FORETOLD EVENT & DOESN'T HAPPEN TODAY EVERY TIME CHRIST INDWELLS A NEW BELIEVER)

22 “Ye men of Israel!
(NOTE: NO GENTILES ARE PART OF THIS SPECIAL EVENT. IF THEY WERE THEN WHY ARE PETER & THE JEWS WITH HIM ASTONISHED WHEN THE GENTILES RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ACTS 10:45?)

1 Corinthians 14:2? REALLY?

The Acts 2 special Pentecost event you claim is todays sign of salvation. Isn't the same event found in 1 Cor 14:2: HERE NOBODY (but the H/S) NOT EVEN THE PERSON SPEAKING, UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE'RE SAYING!.

You just may want to rethink this narrative your promoting.

So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????[/QUOTE]

 

[studier]

I'm being lazy and so am speaking without looking up an lexicon but only arguing from my own 'sensing', if you'll permit. If I "know" Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection as fact, and I "know" why, then I don't see why I should "appeal" to God for a good conscience, but rather that pledging my good conscience to God would follow in order, even if I subsequently struggled to 'keep' that pledge as best that I could, but, of course, not without also 'knowing' of His pledge to send a Helper.

I do see your point and looked at the pledge language extensively. As I recall it can be derived lexically, but it wasn't the most natural definition. Its etymology is mainly based in words that speak of asking.

With that said, It can certainly make sense from a reasoned point of view that we are entering into a mutual relationship and accepting an offer and pledging ourselves to the relationship. Here is an excerpt from an exegetical article that looks to agree with you and provides a basis for it (my highlights):

ἀλλὰ συνειδήσεως ἀγαθῆς ἐπερώτημα εἰς θεόν​

Ἀλλά correlates with οὐ to complete the contrast. Baptism is not an automatic rite, but must be accompanied by a heartfelt response to God. Again, ambiguity exists over key terms, in particular the precise sense of ἐπερώτημα, -ατος, τό, “appeal,” and the force of the gen. συνειδήσεως with its modifier ἀγαθῆς. The noun ἐπερώτημα is a NT hapax. Its verbal root means “request”/“appeal” (LN 33.162), but the noun has an attested sense in the papyri of “pledge” (LSJ 618d; H. Greeven, TDNT 2.688–89; Spicq 2.32–33; e.g., see the marriage contracts in POxy. 6.905; 10.1273). So, the term could be indicating either something requested or something given. The problem is compounded by the gen. συνειδήσεως, which could be either subj. or obj. This gives four possible meanings: 1. συνειδήσεως is a subj. gen. and ἐπερώτημα means “pledge.” This yields, “but a pledge to God (i.e., some form of commitment) from a good conscience” (Selwyn 205; Davids 145); 2. συνειδήσεως is a subj. gen. and ἐπερώτημα means “appeal.” This results in, “but an appeal to God (i.e., for something such as grace or forgiveness) from a good conscience” (Michaels, 195, 216–17; Cassirer); *3. συνειδήσεως is an obj. gen. and ἐπερώτημα means “pledge.” This gives, “but a pledge to God to maintain a good conscience” (Dubis 127; Jobes 255; Elliott 681; Dalton 206–10; Achtemeier 271–72; NJB, HCSB, NIV); or 4. συνειδήσεως is an obj. gen. and ἐπερώτημα means “appeal.” This issues in, “but an appeal to God for a good conscience (i.e., a right attitude)” (Goppelt 271; Feldmeier 208; NRSV, NASB, ESV). In baptism, the candidate was required to give a confession of faith in Jesus Christ in response to questions posed (Achtemeier 271). This aligns more with the idea of a pledge made to God rather than an appeal to him (Elliott 680, notes the resemblance to pledges taken by initiates to the Qumran community [1QS 5.8–10; CD 15.6–11; 16.1–5]). In addition, if the pledge is made from a good conscience this presumes some existing regenerative work. But Peter’s point is that salvation is mediated via the baptismal rite, not that it existed prior to this. Also supporting option 3 is the corresponding obj. gen. ῥύπου (Dubis 126; ZG 712). This option is the one most favored by modern commentators.​

Greg W. Forbes, 1 Peter, ed. Andreas J. Köstenberger and Robert W. Yarbrough, Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament (B&H Academic; WORDsearch, 2016), 129–130.​

In the end, it's reasoned interpretation of ambiguities, which this author has certainly provided.

Honestly, this is an example of why I remain open to well-reasoned conclusions. He is absolutely correct that we are dealing with ambiguities that we must resolve. In John's writings, he is found by many exegetes to make what they consider intentional ambiguities leaving us with more than one legitimate way to understand him.

I remain open to considering appeal or pledge, which is why I think I said something to the effect of "at this time I agree with appeal for". As for intentional ambiguity, I can also see pledge working in combination with appeal. An offer has been made - I pledge my fidelity to the relationship - I appeal to the offeror to do what He has promised to do.

As is said, it's not a hill to die on. The seeming hill to die on is that Peter is clearly saying in Acts2:38 and 1Pet3:21 that baptism and human involvement is part of salvation.

I appreciate your reasoning as I have said before and I do understand have thought about what you've said here. A part of your overall reasoning I really appreciate is this "even if I subsequently struggled to 'keep' that pledge as best that I could" - this is reality and we both know the struggle is part of the reality of the process and that we are dealing with He who judges both thoughts and intents and knows fully what we're going through. At times I think that inner intent is the vital part.

 

[Ouch]

So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????

[/QUOTE]


Do you see, when I respond to you it looks like you are the one asking me the question that I am asking you?

It not a hard question, you either have or you have not.

No idea how your messing up when you respond, whatever you're doing it looks like what you say I'm saying and what I say you say.

Can you just hit the reply button????

I don't need to rethink anything because you give me nothing to rethink, if you answer my question then you would.

No need for you to give me a bible lesson, not that I know everything but I'm not looking for a teacher I looking for someone who has been taught.

This is what happens when JESUS fills a human with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Which is one part of the rebirthing process.

As you can see, there are at two after you believe and repent.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

SO BACK TO MY QUESTION HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED???

 

[studier]

I'm starting to entertain another possibility for ἐπερώτημα. Instead of it being something originating from us, it is God's response to our entering into covenant relationship and responsibilities through the doorway of baptism. In other words, it's a judicial decision or declaration that remits our sins and cleanses our conscience. Daniel 4:17 (LXX) seems to convey this sense that it is a divine decree or edict from above.

The matter is by the decree of the watcher, and the response (ἐπερώτημα) is a word of the holy ones; that the living may known that the Lord is most high over the kingdom of men, and he will give it to whomsoever he shall please, and will set up over it that which is set at nought of men. Daniel 4:17​

​

The Theological Lexicon of the New Testament has the most interesting explanation I've found

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

FWIW, it's these types of research and exegetical work that are most meaningful IMO. They are getting down to the depths of what the words and phrases of Scripture are really saying.

What's also interesting is how it seems to conflict with part of the conclusion of the article I just posted to @Mem - specifically the part about the timing of salvation as related to baptism.

 

[FlyingDove]

Do you see, when I respond to you it looks like you are the one asking me the question that I am asking you?

It not a hard question, you either have or you have not.

No idea how your messing up when you respond, whatever you're doing it looks like what you say I'm saying and what I say you say.

Can you just hit the reply button????

I don't need to rethink anything because you give me nothing to rethink, if you answer my question then you would.

No need for you to give me a bible lesson, not that I know everything but I'm not looking for a teacher I looking for someone who has been taught.

This is what happens when JESUS fills a human with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Which is one part of the rebirthing process.

As you can see, there are at two after you believe and repent.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

SO BACK TO MY QUESTION HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED???[/QUOTE]

I’ve already stated throughout this thread that salvation is by grace through faith. I’ve also confessed openly that Jesus is Lord, that He died for my sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day for my justification.

Eph 1 says:
1 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

7 After you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

I heard the gospel, I believed & according to God‑breathed Scripture, Jesus sealed me with His Holy Spirit.

So yes! According to Scripture, I have received the Holy Spirit since I believed.

What I reject is your sect’s redefinition that equates ""receiving the Holy Spirit"" with speaking in tongues.

The Bible says believers are sealed with the Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). You're asking a biblical question but demand a denominational answer. I’m sticking with the biblical one.

 

[Ouch]

I’ve already stated throughout this thread that salvation is by grace through faith. I’ve also confessed openly that Jesus is Lord, that He died for my sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day for my justification.

Eph 1 says:
1 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

7 After you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

I heard the gospel, I believed & according to God‑breathed Scripture, Jesus sealed me with His Holy Spirit.

So yes! According to Scripture, I have received the Holy Spirit since I believed.

What I reject is your sect’s redefinition that equates ""receiving the Holy Spirit"" with speaking in tongues.

The Bible says believers are sealed with the Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). You're asking a biblical question but demand a denominational answer. I’m sticking with the biblical one.

So you have not, why not just say so???

I appreciate your seeking JESUS but no place in HIS word does it tell you to open confess that JESUS is Lord and died for your sins and rose again on the third day GETS YOU SAVED.

I would never debate Paul's letter to the Eph.

Verse 7, what gospel was THAT GOSPEL OF SALVATION WHICH PAUL IS SPEAKING OF?

Since the book of Eph was a letter to one of the churches he started, he is talking about the past when he preached the same message as the rest of the apostles matter a fact look at Acts 19 that may have been before that church was started.
Why would you say you have been sealed if JESUS never filled you?

I can see why you would reject, since it didn't happen.

When JESUS fills us and we speak in tongues it has nothing to do with denominations IT'S HIS WORD.

FYI,

Since GOD is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow HE did NOT and will NOT change HIS rules.

According to Paul in,

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So when this happened,

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Someone must have been interpreting it so they heard in their own language.

Since GOD can do anything and this was the first time anyone was filled so there was no one to interprets it must have been GOD allowing them to hear in their own language.

In Acts 10 and 19 there was no interpreting but they were filled.

Paul talks all about receiving the Holy Ghost and the gifts that come with it in 1 Cor 12.

JESUS told HIS disciples NOT to go out without it in Acts 1.

 

[Wansvic]

...
Eph 1 says:
1 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

7 After you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

I heard the gospel, I believed & according to God‑breathed Scripture, Jesus sealed me with His Holy Spirit.

So yes! According to Scripture, I have received the Holy Spirit since I believed.
...

What is the word of truth, gospel of salvation Paul is referencing in the Ephesian account?

The answer is what Paul revealed to the 12 men of Ephesus in Acts 19:1-7. They believed and obeyed Paul and they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[FlyingDove]

So you have not, why not just say so???

I appreciate your seeking JESUS but no place in HIS word does it tell you to open confess that JESUS is Lord and died for your sins and rose again on the third day GETS YOU SAVED.

I would never debate Paul's letter to the Eph.

Verse 7, what gospel was THAT GOSPEL OF SALVATION WHICH PAUL IS SPEAKING OF?

Since the book of Eph was a letter to one of the churches he started, he is talking about the past when he preached the same message as the rest of the apostles matter a fact look at Acts 19 that may have been before that church was started.
Why would you say you have been sealed if JESUS never filled you?

I can see why you would reject, since it didn't happen.

When JESUS fills us and we speak in tongues it has nothing to do with denominations IT'S HIS WORD.

FYI,

Since GOD is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow HE did NOT and will NOT change HIS rules.

According to Paul in,

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So when this happened,

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Someone must have been interpreting it so they heard in their own language.

Since GOD can do anything and this was the first time anyone was filled so there was no one to interprets it must have been GOD allowing them to hear in their own language.

In Acts 10 and 19 there was no interpreting but they were filled.

Paul talks all about receiving the Holy Ghost and the gifts that come with it in 1 Cor 12.

JESUS told HIS disciples NOT to go out without it in Acts 1.

Rom 10:
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
"""Man BELIEVES TO RIGHTEOSNESS""" Abraham BELIEVED & God credited His BELIEF as RIGHTEOUSNESS Gen 15:6, Rom 4:22, Gal 3:6, James 2:23, Rom 4:9. BTW, no record of Abraham speaking in tongues. And believers are seen sitting at Abrahams table Matthew 8:11-12. Abraham was SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH."""

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Why no mention of baptism in Jesus name or speaking in tongues as a qualifier? I'll answer that for you. By GRAVE are you SAVED thru FAITH

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
"""By GRAVE are you SAVED thru FAITH"""

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"""NOT of WORKS"""

Your free to promote & try to add all kinds of extra requirements on the pathway to salvation. Scripture is clear 1 Cor 15:1-4, Rom 10:8-13, Eph 1:5-14, Eph 2:8-9. We are SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH, PERIOD!

 

[Ouch]

Rom 10:
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
"""Man BELIEVES TO RIGHTEOSNESS""" Abraham BELIEVED & God credited His BELIEF as RIGHTEOUSNESS Gen 15:6, Rom 4:22, Gal 3:6, James 2:23, Rom 4:9. BTW, no record of Abraham speaking in tongues. And believers are seen sitting at Abrahams table Matthew 8:11-12. Abraham was SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH."""

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Why no mention of baptism in Jesus name or speaking in tongues as a qualifier? I'll answer that for you. By GRAVE are you SAVED thru FAITH

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
"""By GRAVE are you SAVED thru FAITH"""

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"""NOT of WORKS"""

Your free to promote & try to add all kinds of extra requirements on the pathway to salvation. Scripture is clear 1 Cor 15:1-4, Rom 10:8-13, Eph 1:5-14, Eph 2:8-9. We are SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH, PERIOD!

First good job with replying and not getting everything mixed up.

Romans, 10:1 starts out this way.
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

The reason Paul didn't mention baptism is because he is speaking to the church he started, NOT THE UNSAVED.

In 10:9 he is tells those who are saved to get out and confess JESUS or they will lose their salvation, as you shared

Notice just down a little more,
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Being filled with the Holy Ghost didn't start until JESUS ascended the second time, if GOD was going to fill someone with the Holy Ghost Abraham sure would have been on the top of the list.

No debate, we are saved by grace not by works.

JESUS SAID IN,
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Why do you think JESUS said we have to be born of WATER and of SPIRIT TO ENTER?

Being baptized in a commandment not works.

When a person is baptized who is doing the work anyway?

The one walking into the water? Or the one doing HIS will and baptizing you?

Do you understand that Paul was born of water and of spirit and speaks to his churches about both and the importance of it?

If Paul was speaking to you today, don't you think he would ask you like I did, HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since YOU HAVE BELIEVED???

So now we know that you have not been baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins or been filled with HIS spirit, why do you think you go to go?

With all of that being said,

If Peters first message IS NOT TRUE,

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

THREE QUESTIONS.

1. Are we still born in sin?
2. Will sin enter Heaven?
3. How do we get rid of them?

 

[FlyingDove]

First good job with replying and not getting everything mixed up.

Romans, 10:1 starts out this way.
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

The reason Paul didn't mention baptism is because he is speaking to the church he started, NOT THE UNSAVED.

In 10:9 he is tells those who are saved to get out and confess JESUS or they will lose their salvation, as you shared

Notice just down a little more,
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Being filled with the Holy Ghost didn't start until JESUS ascended the second time, if GOD was going to fill someone with the Holy Ghost Abraham sure would have been on the top of the list.

No debate, we are saved by grace not by works.

JESUS SAID IN,
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Why do you think JESUS said we have to be born of WATER and of SPIRIT TO ENTER?

Being baptized in a commandment not works.

When a person is baptized who is doing the work anyway?

The one walking into the water? Or the one doing HIS will and baptizing you?

Do you understand that Paul was born of water and of spirit and speaks to his churches about both and the importance of it?

If Paul was speaking to you today, don't you think he would ask you like I did, HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since YOU HAVE BELIEVED???

So now we know that you have not been baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins or been filled with HIS spirit, why do you think you go to go?

With all of that being said,

If Peters first message IS NOT TRUE,

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

THREE QUESTIONS.

1. Are we still born in sin?
2. Will sin enter Heaven?
3. How do we get rid of them?

Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
(MY NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews & a trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(MY NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to fleshly/PHYSICAL birth & "Spirit" corresponds to spiritual birth. Jesus is not introducing H2O baptism. He's distinguishing TWO births.)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(MY NOTE - Here is the key:
Flesh = PHYSICAL (the natural birth that beginning in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

Spirit = spiritual birth (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that physical birth alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born spiritually.

This is a consistent biblical theme:
Cain (physical) - Abel (spiritual)
Ishmael (physical) - Isaac (spiritual) — Gal 4:22–31
Esau (physical) - Jacob (spiritual)
Adam (physical) - Christ (spiritual)

Paul summarizes this pattern:

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Physical birth 1st, Spiritual birth 2nd. Exactly what Jesus is teaching in John 3.

The following verses (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33) all clearly state: John baptizes with WATER & Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.


I'll address the rest of your mess, in the next reply.

 

[Ouch]

Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
(MY NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews & a trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(MY NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to fleshly/PHYSICAL birth & "Spirit" corresponds to spiritual birth. Jesus is not introducing H2O baptism. He's distinguishing TWO births.)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(MY NOTE - Here is the key:
Flesh = PHYSICAL (the natural birth that beginning in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

Spirit = spiritual birth (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that physical birth alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born spiritually.

This is a consistent biblical theme:
Cain (physical) - Abel (spiritual)
Ishmael (physical) - Isaac (spiritual) — Gal 4:22–31
Esau (physical) - Jacob (spiritual)
Adam (physical) - Christ (spiritual)

Paul summarizes this pattern:

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Physical birth 1st, Spiritual birth 2nd. Exactly what Jesus is teaching in John 3.

The following verses (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33) all clearly state: John baptizes with WATER & Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.


I'll address the rest of your mess, in the next reply.

Did you notice the word REBORN?

First I'm just in the seed business.

My three questions were,

1. Are we still born in sin?
2. Will sin enter Heaven?
3. How do we get rid of them?

I have NO IDEA why you would think being born naturally WHEN WE GET ALL OF OUR SINS is what JESUS meant when HE WAS TALKING TO A OLD MAN.

No idea where this stuff comes from but I do know a lot of people think the same way and are wrong. THAT IS WHEN WE GET OUR SINS.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

WHICH now leads to a fourth question.

For instance, this is what JESUS meant with the word water.

When JESUS left Nicodemus HE was with HIS team watching them baptize fokes.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Peters first message that JESUS promise to be preached,

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The 4th question,
Why did Peter tell them they had to be baptized for remission of sins?

Thank you no rush.