Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[FlyingDove]

We are saved by grace.

What does the name john mean in hebrew?

The name John comes from the Hebrew name Yochanan (יוֹחָנָן), meaning "God is gracious" or "God has been gracious". It's formed from "Yo" (a short form of God's name, YHWH) and "Chanan" (to grace or favor), reflecting a divine gift or favor, as seen with John the Baptist.

Think of all of the trouble GOD when through to set HIS plan of salivation up starting with John who was the only human filled with the Holy Ghost from birth.

GOD graciously gives us water to remove our sins.

No works involved but obedience is, sad for HIM to do all of that and we don't obey.

If you don't think we need to be baptized in JESUS name to remove our sins than how do we?

Are we still born in sin?

Will sin enter heaven?

If so and if not then we have to get rid of it, how do we do that?

Please see how specific this verse is on how to get rid of our sins,

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

See how specific JESUS is with HIS wording in this verse,

John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Notice how those verse are almost the same wording?

If you going to show me how faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost like JESUS filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4,

Please make sure there is no doubt and they are very specific like the ones above.

More works based requirements. Grace = unmerited favor. By GRACE are you SAVED thru FAITH!

Water baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. Water baptism is an outward Emblem/symbolic representation. A statement, of belonging to the Lord & self denial. When immersed (buried emblem) & rise up (resurrection emblem). Water baptism isn't about getting saved, it's a response to salvation.

The response is publicly partaking in a commanded act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This undertaking is an outward physical expression, of the inner spiritual transformation activated, when Christ baptized you with His eternal life giving Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by "ONE SPIRIT" "ALL ARE" "BAPTIZED" "INTO ONE BODY! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing forever indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Spiritual baptism is the event where, through repentance = changing one's mind from UNBELIEF to BELIEF/FAITH: Placed in Jesus sacrificial sin atoning death & resurrection. The believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit!

BTW: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT (Acts 2:38 & 10:45, 11:16&17) A gift is given & NOT earned. Also see Rom 11:29.

Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

Col 2:11 In whom also ""ye are circumcised with the circumcision"" ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ""
(MY NOTE: The baptism of the ETERNALLY SEALING (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn14:16) Holy Spirit is a ""Spiritual Circumcision Covenant"" done ""by Christ Alone"", WITHOUT HANDS & WITHOUT WATER.)

The only thing that can wash sin from the soul. Is faith placed in the FINISHED sin atoning WORK if Christ.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Going into the water didn't save Noah as much as entering into the ark

When we are baptized we enter the true ark that will save us from the wrath of God

 

[FlyingDove]

God considering Noah’s character in granting grace does not make it causal. I’ve stated this repeatedly. Your repeated claim is a straw man and your repetition does not make it true.

That's all for this response. We'll need to get past this flawed and repetitive allegation or there's not much use in continuing. Also, ignoring what I said about the first word in Gen6:8 and the information I provided from Ezekiel suggests to me this isn't a serious discussion.

Simply put, YHWH does indeed consider Noah's character in this account in providing grace. Ezekiel coupled with the narrative re: Noah will explain more of this.

I think it's time we agree to disagree. Best wishes, FD

 

[Ouch]

More works based requirements. Grace = unmerited favor. By GRACE are you SAVED thru FAITH!

Water baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. Water baptism is an outward Emblem/symbolic representation. A statement, of belonging to the Lord & self denial. When immersed (buried emblem) & rise up (resurrection emblem). Water baptism isn't about getting saved, it's a response to salvation.

The response is publicly partaking in a commanded act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This undertaking is an outward physical expression, of the inner spiritual transformation activated, when Christ baptized you with His eternal life giving Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by "ONE SPIRIT" "ALL ARE" "BAPTIZED" "INTO ONE BODY! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing forever indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Spiritual baptism is the event where, through repentance = changing one's mind from UNBELIEF to BELIEF/FAITH: Placed in Jesus sacrificial sin atoning death & resurrection. The believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit!

BTW: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT (Acts 2:38 & 10:45, 11:16&17) A gift is given & NOT earned. Also see Rom 11:29.

Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

Col 2:11 In whom also ""ye are circumcised with the circumcision"" ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ""
(MY NOTE: The baptism of the ETERNALLY SEALING (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn14:16) Holy Spirit is a ""Spiritual Circumcision Covenant"" done ""by Christ Alone"", WITHOUT HANDS & WITHOUT WATER.)

The only thing that can wash sin from the soul. Is faith placed in the FINISHED sin atoning WORK if Christ.

Thank you for HIS word.

My questions didn't need all of that, my question was with HIS word show me how faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost like JESUS filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

Please don't tell me, show me.

Don't tell me

"Water baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. Water baptism is an outward Emblem/symbolic representation. A statement, of belonging to the Lord & self denial. When immersed (buried emblem) & rise up (resurrection emblem). Water baptism isn't about getting saved, it's a response to salvation."

Because none of that is in HIS WORD but made up storying that people just say.

So Please with HIS word, show how faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost like JESUS filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

 

[Ouch]

More works based requirements. Grace = unmerited favor. By GRACE are you SAVED thru FAITH!

Water baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. Water baptism is an outward Emblem/symbolic representation. A statement, of belonging to the Lord & self denial. When immersed (buried emblem) & rise up (resurrection emblem). Water baptism isn't about getting saved, it's a response to salvation.

The response is publicly partaking in a commanded act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This undertaking is an outward physical expression, of the inner spiritual transformation activated, when Christ baptized you with His eternal life giving Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by "ONE SPIRIT" "ALL ARE" "BAPTIZED" "INTO ONE BODY! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing forever indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Spiritual baptism is the event where, through repentance = changing one's mind from UNBELIEF to BELIEF/FAITH: Placed in Jesus sacrificial sin atoning death & resurrection. The believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit!

BTW: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT (Acts 2:38 & 10:45, 11:16&17) A gift is given & NOT earned. Also see Rom 11:29.

Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

Col 2:11 In whom also ""ye are circumcised with the circumcision"" ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ""
(MY NOTE: The baptism of the ETERNALLY SEALING (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn14:16) Holy Spirit is a ""Spiritual Circumcision Covenant"" done ""by Christ Alone"", WITHOUT HANDS & WITHOUT WATER.)

The only thing that can wash sin from the soul. Is faith placed in the FINISHED sin atoning WORK if Christ.

How about we deal with the Holy Ghost first.

Examples of fokes receiving the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Has JESUS filled you with the Holy Ghost?

 

[FlyingDove]

Thank you for HIS word.

My questions didn't need all of that, my question was with HIS word show me how faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost like JESUS filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

Please don't tell me, show me.

Don't tell me

"Water baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. Water baptism is an outward Emblem/symbolic representation. A statement, of belonging to the Lord & self denial. When immersed (buried emblem) & rise up (resurrection emblem). Water baptism isn't about getting saved, it's a response to salvation."

Because none of that is in HIS WORD but made up storying that people just say.

So Please with HIS word, show how faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost like JESUS filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

Ok, 1st you contacted me. I respectfully replied, with scripture that support my stated position.

Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon forgive sin etc.

1 Pet 1:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
(MY NOTE: "Sins Redeemed/Bought" with the "Precious Blood" of Christ)

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: Our Sins Washed With Jesus Blood!)

All the credit, praise, glory & honor belongs to Jesus. Amen - Drops the Mike...

 

[studier]

Re: Baptism and since we've been discussing Noah:

Anyone care to explain Peter's view stated here:

NKJ 1Pet3:20-21 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

• This clearly says "baptism" "now saves us"
• So, what does Peter mean?
• Does the wording need some work?

 

[Ouch]

Ok, 1st you contacted me. I respectfully replied, with scripture that support my stated position.

Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon forgive sin etc.

1 Pet 1:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
(MY NOTE: "Sins Redeemed/Bought" with the "Precious Blood" of Christ)

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: Our Sins Washed With Jesus Blood!)

All the credit, praise, glory & honor belongs to Jesus. Amen - Drops the Mike...

I'm sorry, I really didn't see you answer the question.

I did see where you were explaining to me what you think is true and some scripture but not if you received the Holy Ghost or how we get rid of our sins!!!

So I asked again, looks like you still haven't? WHY?

Is it ok to keep things simple?

How about we address your statement?

You claim "Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon forgive sin etc."

Can you show me a verse where water baptism does NOT remove our sins???

Can you show me where TODAY HOW WE GET RID OF SINS????

For instance I will make a statement, water baptism DOES IN FACT remove our sins.

NOW I WILL BACK UP WHAT I SAY WITH HIS WORD.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

If you disagree with HIS word then please share HIS word which overpowers those two verses.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree, just let scripture say what it say's:

Gen 6 text doesn’t support your conclusion that Noah's righteousness preceded God's grace.

Gen 6:
8 is the 1st statement about Noah in the flood narrative: Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9 a character summary, that doesn't say Noah earned grace. The text presents grace 1st, then a character description.

NT Hebrews collapses the obedience 1st narrative

Heb 11:7 says Noah """became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."""

Noah’s righteousness flowed from faith & faith flowed from grace. NOT the other way around.

Righteousness is a God given """GIFT""" imputed as a result of FAITH

Rom 5:
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
(MY NOTE: Scripture proclaims """Righteousness is a Gift!""")

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(MY NOTE: Context last verse = Righteousness & here again its a """FREE GIFT!""" Accessed thru)

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith

Grace is a """GIFT""" Accessed via Faith

Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also """we have access by faith into this grace""" wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 3:24 Being """justified freely by his grace""" through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is """the free gift""". For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the """grace of God""", """and the gift by grace""", which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Neither Noah nor any other believer obtains righteousness thru their own obedient actions. Righteousness is a FAITH imputed GIFT. The Lord is the source of righteousness (Jer 23:6) & it's imputation (Rom Chapter 4).

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(BTW: That ONE OBEDIENT man here isn't Noah!)

When people require Cain like self-works/obedience etc. It makes salvation/justification/righteousness about them & robs the Lord of His due praise, glory & honor. AMEN & Amen

Yeah the thing is God is gracious that doesn’t change anything else grace isn’t opposed to obeying God . It says he gave big grace because just before that he decided to destroy all humanity but gave Noah grace and told him about the flood and also instructed him how to be saved from it .


Grace doesn’t change whether a person needs to obey Gods word by faith

 

[FlyingDove]

How about we deal with the Holy Ghost first.

Examples of fokes receiving the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Has JESUS filled you with the Holy Ghost?

Acts 10:
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: Whosoever """believeth""" """in him""" """shall receive remission of sins""". No water needed!)

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: """As Peter speaks""" """the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word"""

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Gentiles receive the GIFT of the H.S. They're "SEALED" with Christ' eternal life giving Holy Spirit. No H2O needed)

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
(MY NOTE: I sense your doctrine requires speaking in tongues & water baptism to be saved. I disagree)

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(MY NOTE: SAVED/Forever (Jn 14:16) Sealed with Christ' H/S. Then they undergo water baptism.)

No gentile is a part of the Acts 2 (be baptized then receive the H/S) Pentecost H/S outpouring.

The order is inverted years later at the Acts 10 salvation sealing gentile H/S outpouring. Receive the H/S then undergo water baptism.

Acts 19:6 The laying on of hands is a spiritual gift. This only happens 3 times & reflects Israel' covenant structure. Commissioning someone for service. Moses lays hands on Joshua (Num 27:18–23), The congregation lays hands on the Levites (Num 8:10), This was priestly/ministerial authorization. I can find no place it applies to a gentile.

Finally,
I'm a believer, Jesus is Lord, He died for my sins, was buried & on the 3 day rose for my justification. All believers have Christ' Holy Spirit dwelling IN them.

1 Cor 12:

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

(MY NOTE: Some of us speak in tongues & some of us don't.

It's gift (needs to be asked for & accepted by faith) it's not a requirement for salvation.

By GRACE are you SAVED thru FAITH...[/QUOTE]

 

[hornetguy]

The simple act of baptism doesn't save us.... it is much more involved than that, and it aligns all scriptures...
We are saved through the grace of God, it is a free gift... an unmerited gift, or favor... the definition of grace.
We are also saved by grace because of our faith in Jesus God....

Through our hearing the gospel, and our faith in Jesus, God gives us the grace of salvation, when we appeal to Him for a clear conscience, the forgiveness of our sins, through immersion in the waters of baptism.... and we are filled with God's Holy Spirit....

Baptism is our "circumcision" into the new covenant, brought by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

 

[Ouch]

Acts 10:
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: Whosoever """believeth""" """in him""" """shall receive remission of sins""". No water needed!)

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: """As Peter speaks""" """the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word"""

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Gentiles receive the GIFT of the H.S. They're "SEALED" with Christ' eternal life giving Holy Spirit. No H2O needed)

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
(MY NOTE: I sense your doctrine requires speaking in tongues & water baptism to be saved. I disagree)

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(MY NOTE: SAVED/Forever (Jn 14:16) Sealed with Christ' H/S. Then they undergo water baptism.)

No gentile is a part of the Acts 2 (be baptized then receive the H/S) Pentecost H/S outpouring.

The order is inverted years later at the Acts 10 salvation sealing gentile H/S outpouring. Receive the H/S then undergo water baptism.

Acts 19:6 The laying on of hands is a spiritual gift. This only happens 3 times & reflects Israel' covenant structure. Commissioning someone for service. Moses lays hands on Joshua (Num 27:18–23), The congregation lays hands on the Levites (Num 8:10), This was priestly/ministerial authorization. I can find no place it applies to a gentile.

Finally,
I'm a believer, Jesus is Lord, He died for my sins, was buried & on the 3 day rose for my justification. All believers have Christ' Holy Spirit dwelling IN them.

1 Cor 12:

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

(MY NOTE: Some of us speak in tongues & some of us don't.

It's gift (needs to be asked for & accepted by faith) it's not a requirement for salvation.

By GRACE are you SAVED thru FAITH...

[/QUOTE]

SO MUCH FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!!

Ok, so in Acts 10 JESUS filled them with Holy Ghsot and then was baptized.

Not sure why you bring in OT with Acts 19, but they were baptized and then JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.

I love 1 Cor.

Now that we know in Acts 10 and 19 they were baptized in JESUS name and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost WHO CARES IN WHAT ORDER they BOTH LINE UP WITH ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:5.

So HAS JESUS FILLED YOU LIKE HIS FILLED HIS DISCIPLES IN ACTS 2? how about like HE did with the Gentiles in Acts 10 OR how about like HE filled the ephesians in Acts 19???

I will be like Paul in Acts 19 SINCE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN FILLED HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????

 

[Wansvic]

...

The only thing that can wash sin from the soul. Is faith placed in the FINISHED sin atoning WORK if Christ.

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

 

[Wansvic]

...Acts 10:
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: Whosoever """believeth""" """in him""" """shall receive remission of sins""". No water needed!)
...

You neglected to include anything in your note that addresses the beginning of verse 43. It says, through Jesus' name, those who believe in him shall receive remission of sins.

What command involves the use of Jesus' name and remission of sins?

 

[studier]

The simple act of baptism doesn't save us.... it is much more involved than that, and it aligns all scriptures...
We are saved through the grace of God, it is a free gift... an unmerited gift, or favor... the definition of grace.
We are also saved by grace because of our faith in Jesus God....

Through our hearing the gospel, and our faith in Jesus, God gives us the grace of salvation, when we appeal to Him for a clear conscience, the forgiveness of our sins, through immersion in the waters of baptism.... and we are filled with God's Holy Spirit....

Baptism is our "circumcision" into the new covenant, brought by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

ESV 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

NAS 1 Peter 3:21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The various English translations show how this verse is debated.

IMO, some excellent points in your highlighted words.

I wonder how many of us see and agree with what you've stated and connected here - It clearly the way I read you and the above translations has Peter saying baptism is an appeal - a request - to God for a good conscience, which you (and others) connect to forgiveness (and cleansing) of sins through (or by) the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter is saying this baptism/appeal saves.

Appreciate the input.

 

[Mem]

ESV 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

NAS 1 Peter 3:21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The various English translations show how this verse is debated.

IMO, some excellent points in your highlighted words.

I wonder how many of us see and agree with what you've stated and connected here - It clearly the way I read you and the above translations has Peter saying baptism is an appeal - a request - to God for a good conscience, which you (and others) connect to forgiveness (and cleansing) of sins through (or by) the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter is saying this baptism/appeal saves.

Appreciate the input.

The appeal saves. The pledge to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ... because he believes that. The appeal is the baptism. Isaiah 66:9, "Shall I bring the time of birth and not cause delivery?"
I'm seeing the appeal/baptism saves.

John was hesitant to baptize Jesus, and He allayed his concern by suffering it "that all righteousness may be fulfilled." Jesus needed no cleansing, nor to appeal for a good conscience. He was simply fulfilling all the requirements of the law that He intended to take with Him to the cross.

 

[FlyingDove]

SO MUCH FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!!

Ok, so in Acts 10 JESUS filled them with Holy Ghsot and then was baptized.

Not sure why you bring in OT with Acts 19, but they were baptized and then JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.

I love 1 Cor.

Now that we know in Acts 10 and 19 they were baptized in JESUS name and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost WHO CARES IN WHAT ORDER they BOTH LINE UP WITH ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:5.

So HAS JESUS FILLED YOU LIKE HIS FILLED HIS DISCIPLES IN ACTS 2? how about like HE did with the Gentiles in Acts 10 OR how about like HE filled the ephesians in Acts 19???

I will be like Paul in Acts 19 SINCE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN FILLED HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????[/QUOTE]

@Ouch

A new rabbit hole lol

Jesus the supreme creator of our universe, give's a baptismal formula: Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19).

Feel free to cite the scripture that commands we replaces Jesus cited formula & now use in use Jesus name only.

Acts doesn't command a new formula. It's identifying whose baptism it was (as opposed to John's, Jewish ritual washings, pagan rites etc). Every Acts reference is descriptive, showing allegiance & authority, NONE are prescriptive.

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) """""he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also""""".

(MY NOTE: Any person that comes forward to water baptism making a public statement: of belonging to the Lord & with a heart of self denial. WILL BE FINE! IMO Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19) is 1st choice. In Jesus name works too.)

You site 3 unique historical events expanding the gospel. And try to broad brush it into command doctrine. There many more cited cases that collapses your broad brush narrative.

1st Acts 2, Pentecost - Jews only - Church is born, BTW they spoke in real languages. Luke lists 15 different nations/languages:

Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judeans, Cappadocians, Pontians, Asians, Phrygians, Pamphylians, Egyptians, Libyans, Romans, Cretans, Arabians, And then he says: We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Acts 10, Gentiles also spoke in real languages & now included in covenants of promise (Eph 2:12)

Acts 19, John' 12 disciples who only knew John the Baptist’s WATER baptism, They also spoke in real languages & prophesied!

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Scripture never says every believer must experience those exact signs.

What it does say is that everyone SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH.

Will be FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEALED (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) with Christ' indwelling Holy Spirit. Yes, Jesus has filled me with His Spirit according to the promises in the New Covenant. Best wishes, FD

 

[studier]

The appeal saves. The pledge to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ... because he believes that. The appeal is the baptism. Isaiah 66:9, "Shall I bring the time of birth and not cause delivery?"
I'm seeing the appeal/baptism saves.

John was hesitant to baptize Jesus, and He allayed his concern by suffering it "that all righteousness may be fulfilled." Jesus needed no cleansing, nor to appeal for a good conscience. He was simply fulfilling all the requirements of the law that He intended to take with Him to the cross.

answer, pledge, appeal, request have all been lexically suggested as translation. I normally remain open to well reasoned input, but at this time I agree that "appeal" is the best translation - it seems formal and submissive and is well-affirmed in the lexicons.

I meant to say in my response to @hornetguy that I liked his response overall. I agree that there is more to this than just baptism/appeal, but that's the focus Peter is dealing with in the verse, so that was my focus.

I guess the main point is how well this compares to Acts2:38 which was identified in the topic of this thread. Also, the way I read Peter, he said baptism is a requirement and this verse in 1Pet provides a very interesting detail in specifiying this appeal. So, not only does Acts2:38 have men actively involved in salvation, but this verse has them actually appealing to God for what He provides through the resurrection of our Lord.

There is some interesting discussion I think we could reason through about this, such as to make the appeal would require one to have been informed re: what to appeal for and why; there is instruction in Hebrews re: the perfecting of the conscience under the Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ that was not available in the OC era sacrificial system; I recall attaching some language in the study of this to growth from infancy to maturity and letting the one to be baptized know that they are entering into a process for life that has goals such as maturity and beyond.

Basically, as @hornetguy said, there is much involved and connected here - I'll add that it's both on the front end and afterward once entered into Christ.

 

[Mem]

answer, pledge, appeal, request have all been lexically suggested as translation. I normally remain open to well reasoned input, but at this time I agree that "appeal" is the best translation - it seems formal and submissive and is well-affirmed in the lexicons.

I meant to say in my response to @hornetguy that I liked his response overall. I agree that there is more to this than just baptism/appeal, but that's the focus Peter is dealing with in the verse, so that was my focus.

I guess the main point is how well this compares to Acts2:38 which was identified in the topic of this thread. Also, the way I read Peter, he said baptism is a requirement and this verse in 1Pet provides a very interesting detail in specifiying this appeal. So, not only does Acts2:38 have men actively involved in salvation, but this verse has them actually appealing to God for what He provides through the resurrection of our Lord.

There is some interesting discussion I think we could reason through about this, such as to make the appeal would require one to have been informed re: what to appeal for and why; there is instruction in Hebrews re: the perfecting of the conscience under the Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ that was not available in the OC era sacrificial system; I recall attaching some language in the study of this to growth from infancy to maturity and letting the one to be baptized know that they are entering into a process for life that has goals such as maturity and beyond.

Basically, as @hornetguy said, there is much involved and connected here - I'll add that it's both on the front end and afterward once entered into Christ.

I'm being lazy and so am speaking without looking up an lexicon but only arguing from my own 'sensing', if you'll permit. If I "know" Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection as fact, and I "know" why, then I don't see why I should "appeal" to God for a good conscience, but rather that pledging my good conscience to God would follow in order, even if I subsequently struggled to 'keep' that pledge as best that I could, but, of course, not without also 'knowing' of His pledge to send a Helper.

 

[Ouch]

SO MUCH FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!!!

Ok, so in Acts 10 JESUS filled them with Holy Ghsot and then was baptized.

Not sure why you bring in OT with Acts 19, but they were baptized and then JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.

I love 1 Cor.

Now that we know in Acts 10 and 19 they were baptized in JESUS name and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost WHO CARES IN WHAT ORDER they BOTH LINE UP WITH ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:5.

So HAS JESUS FILLED YOU LIKE HIS FILLED HIS DISCIPLES IN ACTS 2? how about like HE did with the Gentiles in Acts 10 OR how about like HE filled the ephesians in Acts 19???

I will be like Paul in Acts 19 SINCE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN FILLED HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED????

@Ouch

A new rabbit hole lol

Jesus the supreme creator of our universe, give's a baptismal formula: Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19).

Feel free to cite the scripture that commands we replaces Jesus cited formula & now use in use Jesus name only.

Acts doesn't command a new formula. It's identifying whose baptism it was (as opposed to John's, Jewish ritual washings, pagan rites etc). Every Acts reference is descriptive, showing allegiance & authority, NONE are prescriptive.

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) """""he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also""""".

(MY NOTE: Any person that comes forward to water baptism making a public statement: of belonging to the Lord & with a heart of self denial. WILL BE FINE! IMO Father, Son & Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19) is 1st choice. In Jesus name works too.)

You site 3 unique historical events expanding the gospel. And try to broad brush it into command doctrine. There many more cited cases that collapses your broad brush narrative.

1st Acts 2, Pentecost - Jews only - Church is born, BTW they spoke in real languages. Luke lists 15 different nations/languages:

Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judeans, Cappadocians, Pontians, Asians, Phrygians, Pamphylians, Egyptians, Libyans, Romans, Cretans, Arabians, And then he says: We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Acts 10, Gentiles also spoke in real languages & now included in covenants of promise (Eph 2:12)

Acts 19, John' 12 disciples who only knew John the Baptist’s WATER baptism, They also spoke in real languages & prophesied!

IS THIS HOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU???

Scripture never says every believer must experience those exact signs.

What it does say is that everyone SAVED by GRACE thru FAITH.

Will be FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEALED (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) with Christ' indwelling Holy Spirit. Yes, Jesus has filled me with His Spirit according to the promises in the New Covenant. Best wishes, FD[/QUOTE]


A new rabbit hole? Your the one who when down it in the first place.

I was asking questions about being reborn, your the one who started sharing scriptures you like without answering them.

FYI, Acts 2, 10 and 19 when JESUS filled them it was not in anyone's language you should look at them again.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

In Acts 2 the audience was Jew and Proselytes but it was not just for them, lets look at scripture.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Matthew 28:18-19
King James Version
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So back to the question Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?????????????

When we get past that we can then speak of baptism and the purpose of it.