Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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The will is saved by grace from it's bondage to sin which makes it free to decide for itself whether it will believe the truth presented or not.

No! More doublespeak. The will is potentially saved by ineffective grace from its bondage to sin. If the will were truly saved, then all mankind would be saved from the penalty, power and presence of sin. In your wonky scheme of salvation Christ doesn't actually set anyone free, as He promised; rather, he provides everyone with the opportunity to be set free. But Jesus never said that whoever the Son provides an opportunity to be set free will indeed be free if they choose to be.

To what should we liken your unbiblical concept of synergistic salvation from bondage? In your world Christ is a good-intentioned, compassionate but delusional warden in a prison who offers to set long term prisoners free. He gives each prisoner a key to his prison cell and tells them all they have to do is insert their key into the cell lock, turn it and walk out free people. Of course, the vast majority of long-term prisoners will opt to remain behind bars because they have become so accustomed (addicted) to their highly structured lifestyle over the years (3 hots, a cot, clothing on their backs, roof over their heads, work routines, etc.) that they opt to remain prisoners since that is all they know. In this scenario, the warden doesn't save anyone since He was not the one who actually frees them. The ones who opt to leave save themselves by their "freewill" decision to fly the coop. BY THEIR DOING, they walk free. All the warden did was make it possible.

But is this how the ancient Hebrews were set free from their bondage to Pharaoh? God merely made it possible for the Hebrews to leave Egypt? Is this your idea of rescuing grace!? God's power in Egypt was ineffectual?
 
If God enabled you to trust Him and believe, why do you boast as if you did it yourself? Could you have possibly done it without His grace? If not, then why must you attempt to say [I did it]?
It is His work within your heart that causes the change, a heart of stone will not believe nor can it!. . . . .
you are the one who claims anyone says they did it themselves.

As far as "His work within your heart that causes the change" ... the Word of God is quick (life) and powerful ... it is the powerful, life-giving Word of God which effects the change in the heart of those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

if someone does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... God gives the increase.

if someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness ... God does not effect the change in the heart.



Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold
[Greek = katechō = restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

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Yes Christ is not revealed by the natural creation of Rom 1:18ff it is senseless to bring it up. By nature man at best can only have a natural heathenistic perception of a God.
Wrong again as usual. Unrepentant and unteachable as usual.

Mat 2:2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
 
tell that to these guys ...

Matthew 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.


and don't ignore these verses ...

Psalm 19:1-3 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.


Psalm 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

.

But neither passage says that the heavens declare the gospel truth. You FWers love to conflate divine and natural revelation, don't
you?
 
you are the one who claims anyone says they did it themselves.

As far as "His work within your heart that causes the change" ... the Word of God is quick (life) and powerful ... it is the powerful, life-giving Word of God which effects the change in the heart of those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

if someone does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... God gives the increase.

if someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness ... God does not effect the change in the heart.


Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek = katechō = restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

The New Covenant promise of a changed heart is unconditional. Where in the NC terms does it state any conditions that must be fulfilled by the covenant people of God?
 
But neither passage says that the heavens declare the gospel truth. You FWers love to conflate divine and natural revelation, don't
you?
try to keep up, Rufus ...

he didn't say "the gospel truth" ... he said "Christ is not revealed by the natural creation" ... and I showed him that the birth of Messiah was revealed in the heavens ... just as the heavens reveal God's glory ...

Psalm 19:1-3 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Psalm 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

God revealing Himself in the heavens is one of the methods God uses to draw mankind to Himself.

.
 
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you are the one who claims anyone says they did it themselves.

As far as "His work within your heart that causes the change" ... the Word of God is quick (life) and powerful ... it is the powerful, life-giving Word of God which effects the change in the heart of those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

if someone does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... God gives the increase.

if someone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness ... God does not effect the change in the heart.


Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek = katechō = restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

Whose will is ultimately efficacious in choosing salvation: God's or man's?
 
try to keep up, Rufus ...

he didn't say "the gospel truth" ... he said "Christ is not revealed by the natural creation" ... and I showed him that the birth of Messiah was revealed in the heavens ... just as the heavens reveal God's glory ...

Psalm 19:1-3 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Psalm 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

God revealing Himself in the heavens is one of the methods God uses to draw mankind to Himself.

.


Neither is the birth of the Messiah declared in either of the above passages. So...try exegeting scripture next time..
 
Example of WHAT?

I describe the errors being made?
And, then you ask for an example in Scripture?

Disconnect will happen until the learning of much sound doctrinal knowledge takes place.
Otherwise, the dogma of non-thinking will continue being superstition that takes place when someone is not clear in their thinking.
This sounds more like your silly monkey business to me,
Me thinks you've gone bananas 😋
 
Neither is the birth of the Messiah declared in either of the above passages. So...try exegeting scripture next time..
oh my ... a thousand pardons for mentioning "birth of" ... smh

Mathew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Whose star? ... His star ... so, yes, Messiah is revealed in the natural creation.

.
 
oh my ... a thousand pardons for mentioning "birth of" ... smh

Mathew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Whose star? ... His star ... so, yes, Messiah is revealed in the natural creation.

.
The star was part of natural creation? Where is it today?
 
[quoteE=="brightfame52, post: 5648673, member: 303341"]Rabbit trail[/quote]
nope ... directly refutes your claim that "Christ is not revealed by the natural creation". That you do not want to acknowledge the truth does not equal my showing you the truth is a "rabbit trail".

Mathew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship him.

.
 
[quoteE=="brightfame52, post: 5648673, member: 303341"]Rabbit trail
nope ... directly refutes your claim that "Christ is not revealed by the natural creation". That you do not want to acknowledge the truth does not equal my showing you the truth is a "rabbit trail".

Mathew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship him.

.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't it scripture that revealed the existence of star?
 
and if you read further on, you will see that if they confess their iniquity (vs 40), then God will remember His covenant with Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.

And read these verses as well ...

Leviticus 26:44-45

44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

.
It's true that God the father can eventually make a person repent 🙂

But the sad reality is I believe that if they don't then the reason why they run scared when nobody follows them, is the father is no longer there offering a hedge of protection to them,

People do not flee when nobody is pursuing them for no good reason, when God says that they will flee and panic when nobody is pursuing, it means God had passed Judgment on them for being naughty monkeys,
 
Spiritoftruth.png

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)
Wow! The passage doesn't say that where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom for all those who choose it. Or where the Spirit of the Lord is there is potential freedom.
 
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Wow! The passage doesn't say that where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom for
all those who choose it. Or where the Spirit of the Lord is there is potential freedom.
So true. What it says is those without the Spirit of Truth do not belong to Christ.

But they will still say we are just reading that into the verse :rolleyes:

But we proclaim the truth of Scripture. They proclaim opinions.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.
 
sawdust said:


Grace is not making people believe, it is restraining the sin nature so you are free to accept or reject His truth. His grace does the same thing after salvation. You are not made to believe the truth, you must believe of your own free will. We would all be thinking exactly the same thing if God is making us believe. Why you can't see that I don't know unless you think we who disagree with you are not saved. That could be the only reason I can think of as to why you could explain disagreements among Christians.

Well then...if all grace is but the "restraining [of] the sin nature", then it must be efficacious, since when God restrains evil by his power, it's always efficacious!

Ps 146:9
9 The LORD protects the strangers;
He supports the fatherless and the widow;

But He thwarts the way of the wicked.
NASB

Job 5:12-13
12 "He frustrates the plotting of the shrewd,
So that their hands Cannot attain success.
13 "He captures the wise by their own shrewdness
And the advice of the cunning is quickly thwarted.

NASB

You just committed mental harakiri. Congratulations! Since there's 100% efficacy in God's power of restraining evil, then how can God's restraint of evil in any unbeliever's soul not be just as efficacious? There's nothing in either of the above passages that even remotely hint that God's power is qualified.
 
If God enabled you to trust Him and believe, why do you boast as if you did it yourself? Could you have possibly done it without His grace? If not, then why must you attempt to say [I did it]?
It is His work within your heart that causes the change, a heart of stone will not believe nor can it!. . . . .

So many professing Christians say it because of their PRIDE -- Pride which is the root cause of all sin. Is it any wonder that they hate all those many scriptures that teach us that God gives his grace only to the Humble!?