Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Like I said, you don't understand the gospel. You have knowlege pieces, but not the understanding that puts all of those pieces together.

There's only one thing that saves us: Jesus blood at the throne of God that witnesses of his obedience unto death. That's what sealed the covenant whereby we are saved. There is no salvation apart from this.

If Noah and family had died, Christ would not have been born, and subsequently mankind would have perished. It wouldn't have mattered how righteous Noah was because it wouldn't have been enough to save him.
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Like I said, I do believe the gospel. Please tell me what you believe the gospel IS and also what you believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Do you really believe that God is so small that He would allow a series of events to take place that would prevent Christ from being born and causing all of mankind to perish?

Now Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man which is why God chose him to build the ark. Refusing to build the ark was not an option for Noah who was a true man of faith. (Hebrews 11:7)
 
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The conclusion of Gensis 6:22 "So Noah did everything precisely as God had commanded him.
Then...
Genesis 7:1
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

God commanded Noah to go into the ark.

Might that be exegeted as, "Stop working" without losing its spirit?
 
Mem said:
The conclusion of Gensis 6:22 "So Noah did everything precisely as God had commanded him.
Then...
Genesis 7:1
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

God commanded Noah to go into the ark.

Might that be exegeted as, "Stop working" without losing its spirit?
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I think Noah in willing, obedient faith kept working re: this ark episode until all were in as commanded and the Lord God shut him in from outside Gen7:16.
 
studier said:
I think Noah in willing, obedient faith kept working re: this ark episode until all were in as commanded and the Lord God shut him in from outside Gen7:16.
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I think this is reflective of Jesus declaration to the woman that touched his garment, "Your faith has saved you." Especially considering the b-part of Gen 7:1. Noah must've been tempted to agree a multitude of times with those mocking his undertaking, but he kept hammering away. And similarly, the woman had to press past the multitude to get to her Salvation.
 
God declared Noah righteous after he built the ark, not before

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Genesis 6:8​
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. Genesis 6:14​
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Genesis 6:18​
Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he. Genesis 6:22​
​
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Genesis 7:1​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
God declared Noah righteous after he built the ark, not before

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Genesis 6:8​
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. Genesis 6:14​
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Genesis 6:18​
Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he. Genesis 6:22​
​
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Genesis 7:1​
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How do you read and include Gen6:9 where the same Greek and Hebrew words are used but for "righteous" but translated differently in some English versions?

I'd read Gen7:1 as another statement of righteousness after remaining and enduring - working - as God commanded Gen6:22.
 
Mem said:
I think this is reflective of Jesus declaration to the woman that touched his garment, "Your faith has saved you." Especially considering the b-part of Gen 7:1. Noah must've been tempted to agree a multitude of times with those mocking his undertaking, but he kept hammering away. And similarly, the woman had to press past the multitude to get to her Salvation.
Click to expand...

Unlike many of us, Jesus is not concerned about saying our faith saves us. And these narratives are not shy about showing how actively we are involved in the process. The problem is certain systematic theologies we've been taught.
 
studier said:
Unlike many of us, Jesus is not concerned about saying our faith saves us. And these narratives are not shy about showing how actively we are involved in the process. The problem is certain systematic theologies we've been taught.
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Jesus told us that faith is exactly what God is looking for, His proverbial 'precious.' I don't think it's a stretch if I assume that faith is exactly what the Revelation 5:6 Lamb's seven eyes sent out into all the earth is focused on seeking out.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
God declared Noah righteous after he built the ark, not before

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Genesis 6:8​
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. Genesis 6:14​
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Genesis 6:18​
Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he. Genesis 6:22​
​
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Genesis 7:1​
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I also meant to point out how grace is spoken of. It's focusing on Noah finding/discovering it and not specifically on God giving it which is most certainly inferred but not specifically stated. So, as I read this, it is all about this relational interaction between God and Noah (who is abiding in faith/obedience doing works) and how this culminates in this narrative that is spoken of in the NC in terms of being saved and related to baptism.
 
studier said:
How do you read and include Gen6:9 where the same Greek and Hebrew words are used but for "righteous" but translated differently in some English versions?

I'd read Gen7:1 as another statement of righteousness after remaining and enduring - working - as God commanded Gen6:22.
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I missed that and probably wouldn't have posted what I did if I had seen it. However, it follows the same pattern as with Abram: considered righteous by God (Genesis 12) which was later made perfect through his obedience (Genesis 22) that fulfilled his faith in Genesis 12

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James 2:20-23​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I missed that and probably wouldn't have posted what I did if I had seen it. However, it follows the same pattern as with Abram: considered righteous by God (Genesis 12) which was later made perfect through his obedience (Genesis 22) that fulfilled his faith in Genesis 12

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James 2:20-23​
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I guess at the end we're seeing this same pattern of an enduring, willingly obedient, genuine, working faith in salvation. The thing with men like Noah and Abraham is that this is easy to see. It's pretty astounding how it's glossed over or set aside for some theological systems.
 
studier said:
I guess at the end we're seeing this same pattern of an enduring, willingly obedient, genuine, working faith in salvation. The thing with men like Noah and Abraham is that this is easy to see. It's pretty astounding how it's glossed over or set aside for some theological systems.
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Attempts to gloss over Noah being saved by his work are not bearing fruit. That IMO is probably the pre-eminent scripture refuting work-phobic theology. It simply can't be refuted without denying the gospel. It can only be denied and ignored.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Attempts to gloss over Noah being saved by his work are not bearing fruit. That IMO is probably the pre-eminent scripture refuting work-phobic theology. It simply can't be refuted without denying the gospel. It can only be denied and ignored.
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Having read many things you write, I know "being saved by his work" is not stated in isolation but in the greater context of by grace through faith - all of which is contained in the Noah account - which most certainly includes his obedient and working, cooperative involvement as God commands.

If we just let the Text speak without inserting "saved" before being saved through water and let the instruction show us his faithful, cooperative, enduring relationship with God, then we get a picture of what biblical faith and biblical salvation actually is apart from all these theological constructs being forced back into His Word.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
But without Noah's work Jesus wouldn't have been born to be able to save anyone
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Noah's life was a means, not the cause!

The sovereign ruler/creator of the universe. Planned salvation long before Noah was born:

1 Pet 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(PARSING: Christ foreordained before the foundation of the world. Done deal before Noah's born!)

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
(PARSING: The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Done deal before Noah's born!)

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(PARSING: The earliest declaration of redemption, made centuries before Noah's born.)

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

The notion that God Almighty's eternal life plan depended on Noah is laughable.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world...Revelation 13:8.
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Obviously he wasn't, and that interpretation derives from the awkwardness of the syntax. What it really says is

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the slain Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8​
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This is substantiated by a subsequent verse that states names are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Revelation 17:8​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Attempts to gloss over Noah being saved by his work are not bearing fruit. That IMO is probably the pre-eminent scripture refuting work-phobic theology. It simply can't be refuted without denying the gospel. It can only be denied and ignored.
Click to expand...

Gen 6:

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
(PARSING: God has made a decision)

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
(PARSING: OT written in Hebrew: Grace = "CHEN" meaning unmerited favor. Noah is receives the gift of salvation prior to any acts of obedience's!)

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
(PARSING: God repeats verse 7)

17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
(PARSING: ALL FLESH WILL DROWN!)

18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

(PARSING: God makes a covenant with Noah. Noah & his family will be saved! Noah """hasn't done/built anything yet""")
 
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