Loss of salvation???

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I never said that. Of course Israel was at times worse than the pagan nations around them. Jerusalem has been rebuilt at least 33 times through the centuries because of our unfaithfulness through the centuries. No argument there. None of this is about Israel ever being better than any other peoples. What matters most is who was chosen by the One who created us all.

At the time of Christ walking this earth, however, He referred to Israel as His sheep and Gentiles as dogs. If we look at the conversation between Jesus and the Canaanite woman, it wasn't until after she worshipped Him that He began to respond with the imagery of the children's bread. The Lord always responded to faith, especially that which He considered greater than what He found in all of Israel.

Additionally, I never said salvation was not for all mankind. What I actually said is that Gentiles, before the coming down ofnthat middle wall of partition, had to become Jews for salvation and to become partakers of the blessings of Abraham.

Why do you persist in misrepresenting what I have actually stated in order to remain snide? The straw man arguments you present are not representative of anything oth ernthan what you assume between the lines of what I actally state. Why not simply ask rather than to assume?

MM

Do you see the question marks in the post you just answered?

Do you see the question marks in the post you previously answered with ad hominem remarks?

What word did Jesus use for the remark He made per Matt15:26-27 & Mark7:27-28 about dogs - the same word used elsewhere or a modification? Any thoughts re: the word and what Jesus was doing?

What do you think is the meaning of the "dogs" metaphor in Scripture?
 
Hi MM...I think we align more than most here...see my post to rogerg 4,662

Actually, having been raised under the tutelage of Hebrew rabbis who read Hebrew from breakfast to bedtime, they were all of the opinion that torment is forever, so therein is a departure from our respective beliefs. They fully upon derstood the lack in the Hebrew language for an absolute expression for timelessness, as in eternity. They always expressed how remarkable it seemed to them that Gentiles embraced that as well. Their take was rooted more in the grammatical construct of the Hebrew phraseology thad lends to something far in excess of the limitations in the key words, giving rise to the necessity to then compare the level of power against whom sin is committed. They sought a comparative, and they settled upon eternality in contrast to their peers, sort of like the differences between the Pharasees and the Sadducees in relation to an afterlife.

To me, it's not a matter of contention between believers since it's not central to our faith, thankfully.

MM
 
Do you see the question marks in the post you just answered?

Do you see the question marks in the post you previously answered with ad hominem remarks?

What word did Jesus use for the remark He made per Matt15:26-27 & Mark7:27-28 about dogs - the same word used elsewhere or a modification? Any thoughts re: the word and what Jesus was doing?

What do you think is the meaning of the "dogs" metaphor in Scripture?

Of course I did. However, when questions are phrased in a way that they assume an underlying belief another allegedly holds, they cease to be quite so innocent as you seem to think.

MM
 
Of course I did. However, when questions are phrased in a way that they assume an underlying belief another allegedly holds, they cease to be quite so innocent as you seem to think.

MM

Where did I say they were not rhetorical?

No answers to non-rhetorical questions about Scriptures and metaphors?
 
Greek Gospel = me-centric Salvation
Hebraic Gospel = Christ Crucified Salvation


Salvation was fully accomplished at the cross. Through Christ’s atonement, all ungodly men were justified. The moment anyone rests in Christ—placing faith in His faithfulness—their spirit is reborn.

Once we are justified (declared righteous before God), we are invited to respond to His gift of salvation by entering into a Spirit-led transformation. This ongoing work of the Holy Spirit shapes us into Christ’s likeness and ultimately culminates in glorification—the complete removal of our sin nature.

Yet some, though justified, resist this gift and do not receive the Spirit’s transforming work. For them, Scripture describes a humbling process: relational separation, exile, and suffering under God’s chastisement. Even so, His grace remains. In time, they too will be brought to glorification, though “as through fire” (Romans 8:30).

Certain expressions often read into Scripture—such as “those He chose” or “eternal fire”—are rooted in Greek linguistic constructs. These categories were foreign to the Hebrew worldview and are not consistently taught from Genesis through Revelation. The Hebrew Scriptures emphasize covenant, relational faithfulness, and God’s refining discipline, rather than abstract philosophical terms that can obscure the original meaning.

Eternal Fire

Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis–Malachi) do not use this phrase. Instead, they emphasize God’s refining fire (e.g., Malachi 3:2–3) and temporal judgments (e.g., Isaiah 66:24), not an abstract eternal torment.

Those He Chose

In Hebrew thought, “chosen” is covenantal: Israel is chosen as God’s people (Deuteronomy 7:6–8). It is relational and rooted in God’s promises, not a philosophical category of predestination.

Genesis to Revelation

From Genesis through Revelation, the dominant theme is covenant, faithfulness, and transformation.

The concepts of eternal fire and chosen are Greek linguistic constructs that are not affirmed as central themes throughout the entire Bible.


The reason there is so much doctrinal ambiguity is because the Greek linguistic construct is abstract vs Hebraic construct which is concrete (rooted in Covenant).

The Greek Gospel is a different Gospel…the one Paul warned about.

God's Salvation was instant at Christ's Death/Resurrection–not my belief, not my faith and not dependent on my faithfulness…only His!

The King James Version stands out as the best translation I’ve seen. Most of us don’t read Hebrew, so we’re left with translations that—whether by design or accident—add to or take away from the original intent, so every doctrine must be tested against the covenantal thread that runs through all of Scripture.

That thread begins before Creation, carries through the story of Israel, is fulfilled in Christ, and stretches on through to the New Heavens and the New Earth.

If a teaching doesn’t align with that covenantal theme, it cannot stand. The covenant is the measure, the anchor, the lens through which God’s Word holds together from Genesis to Revelation.

Here’s a letter I recently wrote that explains what I am meaning to say best, I think…

Hi J,

Thank you so much for all your writings...

I know that you have come to believe the Greek NT is a translation from the original Hebrew NT; I emphatically agree.

I also believe the Greek NT linguistic framework introduces a subtle but profound shift by presenting a gospel that emphasizes human faithfulness—belief, endurance, performance— (see Paul's Warning) rather than the unilateral covenants woven throughout Scripture, where God alone initiates, sustains, and fulfills.

I believe the Hellenized Gospel redirects the focus of Who's Faithfulness ensures our Salvation from His Faithfulness to "my faithfulness". God gifted us all His Love, Grace and Mercy as our Kinsman Redeemer by the Atoning Death and Life of His Son; and those He Justified He Also Glorified period (Hebrew Gospel-concrete).

The Greek NT Gospel goes like this...Christ Crucified + my faith, belief and endurance...but we already miserably failed the Mosaic Covenant and so if our Salvation rests on anything other than Christ Crucified + nothing we are all doomed.

The Hebrew Gospel is this, God Redeemed all mankind (His Image) for His Name Sake and His Great Love for us through Christ Jesus. Doctrines that arise from the Greek like OSAS and election ensure there's a never-ending debate because the Greek supplies verses that support both sides of the argument (abstract thought); whereas they are totally resolved from the Hebraic perspective (concrete thought).

(True Gospel)
Covenant Promise = Christ crucified = Atonement = Justified = Sanctified = Glorified (purged of sin nature)

You point out many misunderstandings we have about what the Word of God is saying because people don't understand Hebraic culture and how the Covenants were established, because of this I have come to believe commonly held Salvation precepts are completely wrong (Greek-ism).

I am not asserting a different Gospel that Paul warned about (Christ Crucified + anything) instead I am simply uncovering the Hebraic Gospel that has been revealed from Genesis to Revelations (Christ Crucified + nothing).

Only a translation (like the Hellenized Gospel) would introduce subtle errors like when Jesus says to do whatever the Pharisees say to do, strip out YHVH in place of Lord, insert Word, Word, Word in place of Son, Son, Son and worst of all skew the NT Gospel to be a me-centric Gospel of "my faith-Faithfulness vs His Faith-Faithfulness.

We are told to rest in His Covenant Faithfulness, and so we have big problems if our Salvation is dependent on ours.
the complete removal of sin nature does not occur. its largely removed from a born again Christian. he or she is regenerated but during hard times will sin. just a lie, name calling or a simple act of vengeance may occur & those acts are sin. remember someone can backslide which may include sinning.
 
There it is openly stated. The gnostic belief that the power of the spiritual nature is what saves.
I read his post.
He said NOTHING of the sort.

You lie, and twist what brothers are saying?

Says a WHOLE lot more about you than them.
Shameful

You oughtta apologize.

Not holding my breath though.
 
Do you see the question marks in the post you just answered?

Do you see the question marks in the post you previously answered with ad hominem remarks?

What word did Jesus use for the remark He made per Matt15:26-27 & Mark7:27-28 about dogs - the same word used elsewhere or a modification? Any thoughts re: the word and what Jesus was doing?

What do you think is the meaning of the "dogs" metaphor in Scripture?

Ok, what veres in particular are you referring? Not all are of the same meaning nor inclusion.

Also, it doesn't matter what I think, it's all about the grammar and the key words in the contexts.

MM
 
Somehow untold millions of people are saved and born again through the preaching of the gospel. I do not agree with your objections. There is one gospel. People are not saved only by certain verses or any kind of ritual. The Ethiopian Eunuch came to Christ one way and Paul another. But they both came to Christ. One man I follow tells the people he witnesses to to quote Romans 10:9. He's not a formal evangelist, but he leads at least 100 people a year to Jesus. I was led by what is called "The Roman Road".

Paul is speaking to the church he started, Romans 10:9 he is telling them to get out and confess JESUS to stay saved. You really should read all of that chapter,

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

So how does confessing HIM remove our sins or fill us with HIS spirit?

Can't enter Heaven with sin!!

Can't enter Heaven without the Holy Ghost!

John 3:5.[/QUOTE]
No one confesses Lord Jesus except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) He's not a ghost, by the way. We are saved by grace, through faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. I believed Jesus rose from the dead before I was saved. It meant as much to me as knowing that Nero was a Roman emperor.

I gave the abridged version of the gentlemen who uses Romans 10:9. He explains why it is necessary for Jesus to die in the first place. He sets aside an hour. His day job is as professor of Chemistry and Nanotechnology.

"Confess" does not mean an intellectual assent to something. "Confess" means to testify to something you know to be true. In Australia at least, "confess" usually means something negative. Confess to a crime, for example. But that is only partially correct.

I don't agree with the necessity to "stay" saved. I don't know what part of eternal life is not eternal. I don't know how someone can be born again one moment and not the next. What is not certain is placement in God's kingdom. Some embrace the cross daily, consecrate themselves fully to the Lordship of Jesus and seek His kingdom as their number one priority. Others are not so motivated. They are not willing to pay the price. They may even be disqualified from entering the Kingdom of God. That does not mean going to hell. It means missing out on the wonderful rewards that God has for those who are fruitful in this life.

We get one life on earth that sets us up for eternity. Wisdom says, "Let's make the most of it".
 
Not sure if you will ever understand, Romans Paul is talking to the saved not the unsaved!!!

Romans 10:13 Yep, when do you call upon the name of the Lord? In baptism.

HE DOES NOT HEAR SINNERS!!!

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

JESUS said, not me.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Can't ENTER without being born of water and of spirit PERIOD.

To simple verses that you will not accept, so I guess the only question do I believe HIM or you.

By your own admission you have not been baptized in JESUS name for remission of sis and JESUS has not filled you with the Holy Ghost, so you have neither.

Best of luck, when you stand in front of JESUS he will be judging you with HIS rule book not your harmonizing or logic.

I promise I will keep praying for JESUS to open eyes, and anyone who may be following your lead.

Eternity is a long time, I keep planing the same seeds I don't think I'm wasting my time but sure feels like it.
Funnieth, Godeth heardeth my voiceth before I was savedeth. Otherwise, I would not have been saved.
 
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Paul is speaking to the church he started, Romans 10:9 he is telling them to get out and confess JESUS to stay saved. You really should read all of that chapter,

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

So how does confessing HIM remove our sins or fill us with HIS spirit?

Can't enter Heaven with sin!!

Can't enter Heaven without the Holy Ghost!

John 3:5.
No one confesses Lord Jesus except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) He's not a ghost, by the way. We are saved by grace, through faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. I believed Jesus rose from the dead before I was saved. It meant as much to me as knowing that Nero was a Roman emperor.

I gave the abridged version of the gentlemen who uses Romans 10:9. He explains why it is necessary for Jesus to die in the first place. He sets aside an hour. His day job is as professor of Chemistry and Nanotechnology.

"Confess" does not mean an intellectual assent to something. "Confess" means to testify to something you know to be true. In Australia at least, "confess" usually means something negative. Confess to a crime, for example. But that is only partially correct.

I don't agree with the necessity to "stay" saved. I don't know what part of eternal life is not eternal. I don't know how someone can be born again one moment and not the next. What is not certain is placement in God's kingdom. Some embrace the cross daily, consecrate themselves fully to the Lordship of Jesus and seek His kingdom as their number one priority. Others are not so motivated. They are not willing to pay the price. They may even be disqualified from entering the Kingdom of God. That does not mean going to hell. It means missing out on the wonderful rewards that God has for those who are fruitful in this life.

We get one life on earth that sets us up for eternity. Wisdom says, "Let's make the most of it".[/QUOTE]

First thing, I only share HIS word.

JESUS speaking in Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

HE SAYS HOLY GHOST, not me.

"We are saved by grace, through faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

AMEN, are you saying we don't need to do anything??

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

As you can see IT SAYS CONFESS, not my words or opinion.

Second he is talking to the church and telling them to get out and preach, look later in that chapter.
Romans 10,
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


It is sad if you think we can't lose our salvation, that means you are construable just where you are you will NEVER grow.

Do you think that if you go back to that bar stool or stealing or watching porn or just looking at a women in lust that JESUS IS WITH YOU??? HE'S GOON DUDE!!!!

That is why Paul said he dies daily!!

JESUS said in Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

What about the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15?

I'm sorry you don't like HIS word, HELL??? ETERNITY???

Hell will be torment.

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hell is everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 20:7,
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

All HIS WORD.

You are right we get one chance, the best way to make the most of it is being REBORN.

So tell me, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO BE REBORN?

Just believe or just read?
 
Funnieth, Godeth heardeth my voiceth before I was savedeth. Otherwise, I would not have been saved.

I can only share HIS word.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

What did you do to become saved?
 
He's not a ghost, by the way.

The word ghost is old english for spirit.

So yeah, He's the Holy Ghost.




We are saved by grace, through faith.

And the Lord says faith without corresponding action is dead as in not true faith. (study the Book of James for starters)

True faith results in people turning from sin to walk in agreement with the Lord.

Fake faith like the so called reformers taught is nothing more than mental assent that leaves people the same old sinners they always were. These people won't be found in God's Kingdom.



I don't agree with the necessity to "stay" saved.

Yeah, that's what the OSAS people do, after getting saved they go back to living in sin and aren't changed.



I don't know what part of eternal life is not eternal.

Yeah, you don't know what God's Word teaches which is why you don't know.

Eternal life is only applicable to those who abide in Christ.
One must endure to the end to be saved according to Jesus.




They may even be disqualified from entering the Kingdom of God. That does not mean going to hell. It means missing out on the wonderful rewards that God has for those who are fruitful in this life.

That's what the demons have been teaching for years now.

The slow ones listen to the demons instead of God's Word. Sad.

If one is disqualified from entering the Kingdom of God they go to hell.

There are only TWO eternal destinations - God's Kingdom or hell.

The devils tricked the slow ones in to believing there is a third option, but he lied and the slow one are going around teaching lies of the devil.



First thing, I only share HIS word.

A twisted version of what God's Word teaches that came from demons and not from the Lord.




That is why Paul said he dies daily!!

Paul did not believe in once saved always saved.

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
 
Fake faith like the so called reformers taught is nothing more than mental assent that leaves people the same old sinners they always were. These people won't be found in God's Kingdom.

It's called hypocritical faith, ie. taking the lord's name to themselves in vain by calling him lord, but not doing what he says