Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[brightfame52]

Everything in this creation and existence is a result of grace. Nobody is refuting the patently obvious.

False, Grace is salvation related and brings it Titus 2:11

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

So your first mistake is to misrepresent Grace with its soteriological purpose.

 

[lrs68]

your ignorance is truly outstanding sir, I'm not even going to explain as you've had enough explanations to hold credibility to what quite a few people have took time in explaining, with enough reason for you to at least acknowledge what there saying.

But noooo you would rather suit yourself, sooooooo then , so be it then, suit yourself sir

From the Bible Itself:

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving...


Tell me, who is the lower case [(god)] of this world?

The fact From your post shows you think this is the Father in Heaven when in reality it is Satan who blinds the unbelievers.

You condemned me when the Bible proves me correct.

You have just proven your doctrine is False and your knowledge of the Bible is horrible.

 

[brightfame52]

Everything in this creation and existence is a result of grace. Nobody is refuting the patently obvious.
That is not in question nor the substantial matter of debate on this thread.
So show me in the text where it says that the gift being OFFERED TO THE POTENTIAL RECIPIENTS:

Just know this, spiritual blessings are received because they are Sovereignly given by God and that in discriminate fashion. No such thing as potential recipients,

 

[lrs68]

The lost person has the gospel hidden from them, that is no lie 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

That's IF the Gospel is actually hidden. We know it is not God hiding the Gospel and He is all powerful and can make sure the unbelievers can find the truth no matter how much Satan tries to hide it.

From the Bible Itself:



3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:

4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving...





Tell me, who is the lower case [(god)] of this world?

 

[lrs68]

From the Bible Itself:

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving...


Tell me, who is the lower case [(god)] of this world?

 

[Cameron143]

That's IF the Gospel is actually hidden. We know it is not God hiding the Gospel and He is all powerful and can make sure the unbelievers can find the truth no matter how much Satan tries to hide it.

In fact, this is exactly what happens, and what has been said all along...God acts sovereignly to draw people to Himself.

 

[cv5]

Just know this, spiritual blessings are received because they are Sovereignly given by God and that in discriminate fashion. No such thing as potential recipients,

You and you crew have no intelligent nor rational let alone Scripturally sound answer to anything that I have posted in the last couple of pages. Everyone is beholding this spectacle in awe, watching as the Calvinist runaway crazy train hurls off the cliff into oblivion.

Its cringeworthy yes, embarrassing yes, but very revealing nevertheless.

Calvinism is a "Weekend at Bernies" zombie propped up to deceive.

 

[brightfame52]

That's IF the Gospel is actually hidden. We know it is not God hiding the Gospel and He is all powerful and can make sure the unbelievers can find the truth no matter how much Satan tries to hide it.

It's the same, a lost person doesn't believe the Gospel because it is hidden from them.

 

[brightfame52]

You and you crew have no intelligent nor rational let alone Scripturally sound answer to anything that I have posted in the last couple of pages. Everyone is beholding this spectacle in awe, watching as the Calvinist runaway crazy train hurls off the cliff into oblivion.

Its cringeworthy yes, embarrassing yes, but very revealing nevertheless.

Calvinism is a "Weekend at Bernies" zombie propped up to deceive.

Spiritual blessings are received because they are given.

 

[cv5]

In fact, this is exactly what happens, and what has been said all along...God acts sovereignly to draw people to Himself.

Standard Calvinist walk-back rhetoric, trying to stem the bleeding aorta that has been punctured by the many Scriptural arrows of truth that have hit the bullseye.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The gospel is hid to them while lost. Now when they are saved, then its revealed to them to believe.

what is stated by brightfame52 ... saved ... then gospel revealed ... then believe.

What is stated in God's Word ...

Romans 1:16-15

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 15 – preach the gospel ... at which point the gospel is not hid.

vs 16 – believe the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... at which point the believer is saved.

vs 17 – righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith ... not from works to faith or faith to works ... from faith to faith ... the just shall live by faith ... the life of the justified one begins in faith and continues in faith.

vs 18 – those who suppress the truth ... receive the consequence of suppressing the truth ...

vs 19 – when the gospel is preached by faithful men and women of God ... that is God revealing the gospel ... God hath shewed it to them.

The gospel of Christ is still the power of God unto salvation even if no one believes.

if you continue to insist the gospel is still hid by the god of this world, you deny the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation, to overcome the efforts of god of this world in trying to keep the gospel hidden.

once the gospel is revealed, the person either believes the gospel or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. A person may suppress the truth in unrighteousness concerning the gospel more than once in his or her lifetime. Did you believe the gospel the first time God revealed it to you?

.

 

[cv5]

Just know this, spiritual blessings are received because they are Sovereignly given by God and that in discriminate fashion. No such thing as potential recipients,

Your failures are epic, your condition dire.

 

[Cameron143]

Standard Calvinist walk-back rhetoric, trying to stem the bleeding aorta that has been punctured by the many Scriptural arrows of truth that have hit the bullseye.

So God doesn't act sovereignly in drawing people to Himself. Please...tell us all how it works.

 

[brightfame52]

That's IF the Gospel is actually hidden. We know it is not God hiding the Gospel and He is all powerful and can make sure the unbelievers can find the truth no matter how much Satan tries to hide it.

Yes ultimately it is God hiding the Gospel since Satan can only do it by Gods permission. It's not like God doesn't hide truth from people because we read Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

[brightfame52]

what is stated by brightfame52 ... saved ... then gospel revealed ... then believe.

What is stated in God's Word ...

Romans 1:16-15

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 15 – preach the gospel ... at which point the gospel is not hid.

vs 16 – believe the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... at which point the believer is saved.

vs 17 – righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith ... not from works to faith or faith to works ... from faith to faith ... the just shall live by faith ... the life of the justified one begins in faith and continues in faith.

vs 18 – those who suppress the truth ... receive the consequence of suppressing the truth ...

vs 19 – when the gospel is preached by faithful men and women of God ... that is God revealing the gospel ... God hath shewed it to them.

The gospel of Christ is still the power of God unto salvation even if no one believes.

if you continue to insist the gospel is still hid by the god of this world, you deny the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation, to overcome the efforts of god of this world in trying to keep the gospel hidden.

once the gospel is revealed, the person either believes the gospel or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. A person may suppress the truth in unrighteousness concerning the gospel more than once in his or her lifetime. Did you believe the gospel the first time God revealed it to you?

.

The Gospel is hidden to them that are lost. As long as we are in a lost condition the Gospel is hidden

 

[brightfame52]

Your failures are epic, your condition dire.

Now insults because I tell you the truth

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Theres more than one understanding sis, and the underlying fact, Abram was saved by God,

I realize that folks come away with "more than one understanding" ... when my good best friend was still with me, he and I would discuss Scripture. sometimes we agreed ... sometimes we were not in 100% agreement ... at the end of the day, either his understanding was right ... or my understanding was right ... or both of us were not right. What we both believed for a fact was that the truth of Scripture is what is crucial and God is always right.

in agreement that Abraham was saved by God.

which by the account of his chosen disciples they where saved in his living hope, whilst his living word burned inside there hearts, this is cited in scripture, That God chose them, they never chose him, and that they where saved in his living hope,
whilst his word burned inside there hearts, making them believe

Abraham was not alive when the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth with His disciples ... although Scripture does state that Abraham rejoiced to see His day ...

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

God revealed the day to Abraham. Hebrews 11:9 clearly states that Abraham had faith that God would raise up Isaac from the dead ... so Abraham had some knowledge concerning the resurrection.

Abraham saw the promises "afar off" ... Abraham was persuaded of them ... Abraham embraced them ... Abraham confessed that he was a stranger and a pilgrim on the earth.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Just as we look for the new heavens and the new earth wherein dwells righteousness (2 Peter 3:13), Abraham did the same as he looked forward to the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The understanding here, clearly gives understanding, that his word burning in there hearts, is also his faith.

Scripture also tells us God knows everybody, even the hairs on your head, which is clear proof that knowing and chosen are two different meanings all together, as all whom he knows are not saved, the greek that you cite here isn't really something you should lean on completely, i can think of a few reasons why, but it's not wise to completely draw this understanding away with different language meaning.

I showed you the Hebrew word yāḏaʿ used in Gen 18:19 does not mean "chosen".

I also showed you the various Hebrew words which actually mean "chosen". None of the Hebrew words which mean "chosen" are found in Gen 18:19.

The story of abram being saved is How the lord describes people will be saved by God,

Firstly God' comes to you plants his way in your heart which is also his living word and his faith, faith is a gift, which also burns that much in your heart you make the right decision, Deuteronomy 30:6 and God is faithful and enduring with his faith in the heart when Deuteronomy 30:6 is happening, this is how he knows you, and chooses you.

My understanding is that salvation is by grace through faith ... whether in Abraham's time (before Old Covenant) ... under the Old Covenant (after Abraham's time) ... under the New Covenant (our day and time).

like Abram knowing not to sacrifice his son, after God instructed him to.

here's what occurred Jordon:

Genesis 22:6-13

6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

So there you are you have a strong conviction inside you and the lord asking you to so something, only you do the exact opposite of what the lord has told you to, ?

Do you think that's done with any devine intervention by any chance ?

Abraham obeyed God ... Abraham had bound up Isaac ... laid Isaac on the altar ... Abraham took out his knife to slay Isaac ... then the angel of the Lord called out to Abraham ... Abraham offered the ram that God provided in the place of Isaac.

wow!!!

Any chance you can see that his living word and faith was saying no don't do it in Abrams heart ? And it burned that much in his heart he knew not to and believed ?

The same for when abram believed God, any chance you can see the devine intervention in his heart, as in burning in the heart making him feel right ?

Any time a person believes God is it due to God having revealed Himself to the person. When God reveals Himself, we either believe or suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Just because a person believes, that doesn't make a person any better or greater in and of him or herself ... God is always the Mover ... we are always the responder to God having moved ... the response is either belief in what God has revealed or rejection of what God has revealed.

Oh and is there any chance for once you can say yes, well this understanding is plausible, as you don't seem to even want to acknowledge, anything I say again ?

what are you talking about? ... you and I are discussing the Word of God.

I have acknowledged everything you have said and I am discussing that with you.

Btw just make me feel as if my life time of faith and wisdom means not very much,

sorry you feel that way ... however our life time of faith and wisdom grows in this lifetime.

As God reveals more and more truth to us, we grow and mature in the things of God. We will be growing and maturing in the things of God until God calls us home. God is at work within us ... conforming us into the image of His Son.

This does not happen over night and we will not be fully conformed into the image of His Son until we see Him face to face. At that point, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Jo 3:1-2

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And then you wonder why there is division, incredible

I don't wonder why ... I know why ... but that does not mean that the schism is what God wants in the body of Christ.

.

 

[Cameron143]

what is stated by brightfame52 ... saved ... then gospel revealed ... then believe.

What is stated in God's Word ...

Romans 1:16-15

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 15 – preach the gospel ... at which point the gospel is not hid.

vs 16 – believe the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... at which point the believer is saved.

vs 17 – righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith ... not from works to faith or faith to works ... from faith to faith ... the just shall live by faith ... the life of the justified one begins in faith and continues in faith.

vs 18 – those who suppress the truth ... receive the consequence of suppressing the truth ...

vs 19 – when the gospel is preached by faithful men and women of God ... that is God revealing the gospel ... God hath shewed it to them.

The gospel of Christ is still the power of God unto salvation even if no one believes.

if you continue to insist the gospel is still hid by the god of this world, you deny the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation, to overcome the efforts of god of this world in trying to keep the gospel hidden.

once the gospel is revealed, the person either believes the gospel or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. A person may suppress the truth in unrighteousness concerning the gospel more than once in his or her lifetime. Did you believe the gospel the first time God revealed it to you?

.

If they didn't believe, the gospel is still hid. Revelation isn't in audibly hearing the gospel, but when the word of God produces hearing.

Faith doesn't come by hearing the gospel. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen!

The Bible firmly explains people are blinded by Satan not God hiding His Truths.

Yes, and even then it is because people have rejected truth

 

[HeIsHere]

In fact, this is exactly what happens, and what has been said all along...God acts sovereignly to draw people to Himself.

Wrong again.