Loss of salvation???

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mailmandan said:
Your misinterpretation of those verses culminates in a false gospel of salvation by water baptism. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

I have no problem with getting in the water at all. I could not wait to get water baptized after I received Christ through faith and was saved.

Your problem is with your EISEGESIS.

Hmm.. no mention of repentance or faith. So, telling. It's all about baptism with you using a rigid formula followed by tongues. Oneness chaos.

You still don't understand the purpose of baptism. A symbol is not the reality but is a picture of the reality.



If you like it you will accept it.

Forget about harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine? This demonstrates that you reject the TOTALITY of scripture and only care about your pet verses. I already obeyed His word several years ago by choosing to believe the gospel and was reborn. (Acts 15:7-9; 1 Peter 1:23) Praise God! :D

I already made my choice to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) I don't need luck. I have Jesus Christ as my Savior. ✝️ Now it's your turn to make that choice.
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So when you believed you were saved...

Why get water baptized?

How can you be saved and never get rid of you sins?
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
How can anyone think being obedient to God would incline someone to boast in their own righteousness? Mind boggling really.

I can see people who do works of fake righteousness boasting because those works are vain and receive no praise from God. But those who obey God get the witness in their spirit that they please God, and there is no need for, or even thought of, boasting in one's own efforts. Rather thankfulness
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Demanding that one must be water baptized using the formula "in Jesus' name" ONLY followed by must also speak in tongues or else you won't be saved is not obedience to God and is certainly not what it means to believe the gospel. For me it was all about thankfulness when I believed the gospel by placing my faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation and was saved. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Praise God! :D

Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
 
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mailmandan said:
Demanding that one must be water baptized using the formula "in Jesus' name" ONLY followed by must also speak in tongues or else you won't be saved is not obedience to God and is certainly not what it means to believe the gospel.
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Why did you add that? That has never been commanded
 
Ouch said:
So when you believed you were saved...
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Yes. (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc..)

Why get water baptized?
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Water baptism signifies being buried with Christ in death and being raised to walk in newness of life. That was my public testimony. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him as our Savior. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

How can you be saved and never get rid of you sins?
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I was saved and got rid of my sins through repentance/faith (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) apart from your false gospel - water baptism/rigid formula/tongues.
 
Ouch said:
So Acts 2:38 22:16 is false gospel.

You have a problem with getting in the water, WHY?

Your problem is with JESUS and HIS instructions he left us, not with me.

Being baptized is only a part of salivation we also have to have the Holy Ghost .

How many times does it have to say baptized in HIS WORD??

Just tell me why don't you like HIS word and bing baptized in HIS name?

If you like it you will accept it.

Forget about your harmoning and your earthly logic, OBEY HIS WORD IF YOU WANT TO BE REBORN!!!

Choice is yours to make. Best of luck.
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Water baptism is about burial, not forgiveness of sin. The blood of Christ pays for sin, not getting wet. I was born again months before I knew anything about baptism. My country was at war. There was an admittedly remote chance of me dying in battle or in an accident before I was baptised. I most certainly would have been judged as righteous by God. Forgiveness depends on what Jesus has already done, by His death, shed blood and resurrection. When I accepted Jesus, I received eternal life. Your problem is that you cherry pick scripture and ignore anything the contradicts your false belief.

Acts 10 demonstrates your error. Some gentiles were saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit before they were baptised in water. Water baptism is something believers should do, but it is not necessary for salvation.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It wasn't a formula. It was what Peter commanded the multitude to do.
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Folks in the Oneness Pentecostal crowd turn those specific words into a formula for salvation that MUST be recited during baptism or else the person being water baptized will not be saved. If in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is recited during baptism, according to them that person being water baptized will not be saved. Here is an article that may enlighten you.

Must baptism be “in Jesus’ name”? - CARM

The phrase, “in Jesus name,” is not a reference to a rigid, salvic baptismal formula but a reference to authority. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. To baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is to baptize in Jesus' name/by the authority of Jesus.
 
studier said:
Commanded, grace-enabled endurance is not meritorious works, and Scripture never pits endurance against grace. You repeatedly redefine and misclassify terms, then make assertions as if they prove your point, resulting in a string of flawed reasoning you apparently cannot grasp. Do you realize all you’ve done is post a verse about works without showing that endurance itself is a work?
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More false accusation from you. I redefined nothing. Endurance unto good works is a good thing. I never disagreed with that. The problem I have consistently highlighted is the idea, and what you seemed to be upholding, is endurance in those things for retention of salvation. That clearly is works-based salvation.

So, for clarification on your part, do you believe endurance in good works is a matter of justification and/or salvation retention, and even earning salvation? What exactly do you believe in all this?

Or...

Do you believe in endurance in good works ONLY for storing up treasure in Heaven?

MM
 
studier said:
Your wordy response (the very ‘yadda, yadda’ you accuse me of) does not address the point: commanded, grace-enabled endurance is not meritorious works. Instead, you repeatedly redefine terms, assert false dichotomies, push a mid-Acts or hyper-dispensational framework, and descend into ad hominem.
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It clearly is meritorious any time it's applied to salvation's earning and/or retention, period.

MM
 
studier said:
Your wordy response (the very ‘yadda, yadda’ you accuse me of) does not address the point: commanded, grace-enabled endurance is not meritorious works. Instead, you repeatedly redefine terms, assert false dichotomies, push a mid-Acts or hyper-dispensational framework, and descend into ad hominem.
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Yeah, it's hard disproving a more detailed defense against falsehoods, especially when they stand upon clearly quoted sections of scripture that uphold what I've been saying all along.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
It clearly is meritorious any time it's applied to salvation's earning and/or retention, period.

MM
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Earning and retaining salvation are false characterizations. Straw men.

Salvation doesn't have to be retained as if it could drift away from us. Our faith has to be retained lest we ourselves drift away from abiding in Christ who is salvation
 
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

No matter which scale of TULIP beliefs one is on, this says what it says contrary to anything that would detract from it through vain philosophy. For ALL to be without excuse, as Romans 1 declares, this is among the ultimate secions of scripture showing that because of the measure of faith given to EVERY MAN, this shows to us the perfection in God's justice contrary to the claims of injustice on the basis of an assumed level of Sovereignty some think God operates within. That some deny any internal, limiting governance within God, their images of unrestraint within the One true God paints a portrait of a god who doesn't exist.

MM
 
mailmandan said:
Yes. (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc..)

Water baptism signifies being buried with Christ in death and being raised to walk in newness of life. That was my public testimony. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him as our Savior. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

I was saved and got rid of my sins through repentance/faith (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) apart from your false gospel - water baptism/rigid formula/tongues.
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Originally, Israel practiced baptism for several centuries before John the Baptist was even a gleam in his ancestor's eyes. It was a symbolic practice for ritualistic cleansing, through which Jesus also partook because of the Law governing the cleansing of all priests. It wasn't because of sin on His part, but a matter of obedience unto the Law for Him to become, by the guidance of His own Law, our High Priest before the Father.

Good stuff.

MM
 
mailmandan said:
Yes. (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc..)

Water baptism signifies being buried with Christ in death and being raised to walk in newness of life. That was my public testimony. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him as our Savior. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

I was saved and got rid of my sins through repentance/faith (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) apart from your false gospel - water baptism/rigid formula/tongues.
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So with the verse you shared show me how any of them were saved.

You are right baptism does signifie being buried with him, that is when we get rid of our sins, the rest is STORY TIME, PUBLIC TESTIMONY!!

How do I know it's STORY TIME? It's not in HIS word so if it's not from HIM but from Satan.

FYI, IT'S IMPOSIBLE TO BE SAVED WITH ALL OF YOUR SINS!!!

If GOD doen't ever hear sinners how could you be saved with them?
 
Gideon300 said:
Water baptism is about burial, not forgiveness of sin. The blood of Christ pays for sin, not getting wet. I was born again months before I knew anything about baptism. My country was at war. There was an admittedly remote chance of me dying in battle or in an accident before I was baptised. I most certainly would have been judged as righteous by God. Forgiveness depends on what Jesus has already done, by His death, shed blood and resurrection. When I accepted Jesus, I received eternal life. Your problem is that you cherry pick scripture and ignore anything the contradicts your false belief.

Acts 10 demonstrates your error. Some gentiles were saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit before they were baptised in water. Water baptism is something believers should do, but it is not necessary for salvation.
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Yes that is what water baptism is, now I will not tell you but prove it to you so it's not my opinion.

Romans 6
King James Version
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Just because you claim GOD forgave your sins when you confessed HIM does not make it true. Matter a fact if your right the HIS WORD IS WRONG.

What is your problem with Acts 10, they were filled with the Holy Ghost and was baptized in JESUS name.

I will BET YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FILLED LIKE THEY WERE, WERE YOU?
 
Musicmaster said:
More false accusation from you. I redefined nothing. Endurance unto good works is a good thing. I never disagreed with that. The problem I have consistently highlighted is the idea, and what you seemed to be upholding, is endurance in those things for retention of salvation. That clearly is works-based salvation.

So, for clarification on your part, do you believe endurance in good works is a matter of justification and/or salvation retention, and even earning salvation? What exactly do you believe in all this?

Or...

Do you believe in endurance in good works ONLY for storing up treasure in Heaven?

MM
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Your question still assumes the false dichotomy I’ve been objecting to. Until that’s addressed, we can’t meaningfully discuss the topic. I’m not buying into it. Endurance is neither meritorious earning nor optional extra credit; it's part of grace-enabled, genuine faith.
 
Musicmaster said:
It clearly is meritorious any time it's applied to salvation's earning and/or retention, period.

MM
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No, it’s not either of the points in your false dichotomy - no matter how many times you repeat it or approach it from different angles - genuine faith and endurance are ultimately inseparable, grace-enabled, and commanded, and they are part of true salvation, not a meritorious work to gain it or a mechanism to retain it.

Period.
 
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