Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

No, they can't. Did you understand the verse that @brightfame52 posted to you? It states specifically the opposite of that. No one has the Holy Spirit indwelling them until saved. Only a very few have come into this world from the womb unblinded. Everyone else, therefore, starts out in a spiritually blinded state. They will remain so with the true meaning of the gospel hidden by the god of this world. Being in a spiritual blinded state, something must happen to them on the spiritual level, not the physical level, to remove that blindness - physical sight or physical reading of the gospel by natural man cannot pierce it. After salvation, it will be removed, and the gospel message will begin to shine through to them, growing over time, even if initially they are unaware of what has caused it.

You know they can understand this guy was a king, this guy was this guys Father, brother, so forth. So stop telling untruths.

 

[rogerg]

You know they can understand this guy was a king, this guy was this guys Father, brother, so forth. So stop telling untruths.

Really? Do you believe that Christ is Savior?

Understanding and truly believing are two very different things

 

[sawdust]

You don't pay attention. Of course I sin. I can walk in the Spirit or in the flesh. The one I walk in exerts influence upon me. Don't know why this is so hard to understand.
And God does compel us according to Philippians 2:13.

I pay attention, you seem to have a problem with logic. If you were being influenced by the Spirit how did you suddenly become influenced by the flesh if not by your free will choice?

 

[sawdust]

The issue with your logic is that the verse you basing this one which says nothing about free will is speaking of being free from the chains of sin as spoken of in the context that you cherry picked the verse from.

Was your will in bondage to sin?

 

[lrs68]

Really? Do you believe that Christ is Savior?

Understanding and truly believing are two very different things

Can you read a history book?
The Bible is part History and factual Lineage of the Hebrew Jews.
Clearly if you don't know that much you definitely don't know what most of the spiritual meaning is.

 

[rogerg]

Can you read a history book?
The Bible is part History and factual Lineage of the Hebrew Jews.
Clearly if you don't know that much you definitely don't know what most of the spiritual meaning is.

Do you believe that Christ is the Savior? Just a yes or no, please.

 

[Cameron143]

I pay attention, you seem to have a problem with logic. If you were being influenced by the Spirit how did you suddenly become influenced by the flesh if not by your free will choice?

By inattentiveness or attack. Have you ever been praying and a thought comes in your mind? Have you ever been interrupted by people or circumstances? By a sudden emergency or phone call? Have you ever been attacked by spiritual forces?

In these moments, one doesn't think to themselves...hey, I think I'll walk by the flesh for awhile. Our hearts and minds simply stray from being stayed upon the Lord.

 

[sawdust]

The issue with your logic is that the verse you basing this one which says nothing about free will is speaking of being free from the chains of sin as spoken of in the context that you cherry picked the verse from.

Yet the scriptures I gave you completely disregard and have yet to be able to refute any of them, The scriptures clearly show we are not free because like a slave we were bought purchased and like a slave it is always his will that must be done so our will in submitting ourselves to Christ doesn't matter

So if you have any other verse that you can try to prove your side then please by all means provide it as I have been asking for it for a while now to free willers but if this one verse is all you can give then you have no ground to stand on because this verse is speaking of a different form of freedom but you want it to mean something else when it doesn't

How many types of freedom in your world exist? You are either free or you're not.

I answered your scripture. It doesn't mention our will either yet you want to berate me for my logic. Why don't you try reading how it begins ....

Romans 6:16-18
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

So please tell me how you are going to offer yourself if not from your free will? Being compelled to be a slave is not our offering.

None of us offered ourselves to be born sinners. We inherited that from Adam and had no choice in the matter. As people freed from sin we do have a choice, freely follow your flesh or freely follow the Spirit.

Your logic has a Clayton's freedom, it's the freedom you have when you don't have freedom.

 

[sawdust]

By inattentiveness or attack. Have you ever been praying and a thought comes in your mind? Have you ever been interrupted by people or circumstances? By a sudden emergency or phone call? Have you ever been attacked by spiritual forces?

In these moments, one doesn't think to themselves...hey, I think I'll walk by the flesh for awhile. Our hearts and minds simply stray from being stayed upon the Lord.

It was still your choice. The "devil made me do it" has no quarter. Nor circumstances as Daniel is a perfect example of fidelity under enormous pressure.

What you are describing is simply immaturity, much the same as a child gets too excited and forgets the rules momentarily. As one grows, that behaviour ought to greatly diminish if not be eradicated altogether. Don't forget, the fruit of the Spirit is self control.

 

[Cameron143]

It was still your choice. The "devil made me do it" has no quarter. Nor circumstances as Daniel is a perfect example of fidelity under enormous pressure.

What you are describing is simply immaturity, much the same as a child gets too excited and forgets the rules momentarily. As one grows, that behaviour ought to greatly diminish if not be eradicated altogether. Don't forget, the fruit of the Spirit is self control.

Grace and peace.

 

[Magenta]

What you are describing is simply immaturity, much the same as a child gets too excited and forgets the rules momentarily. As one grows, that behaviour ought to greatly diminish if not be eradicated altogether. Don't forget, the fruit of the Spirit is self control.

You meowing and hissing in response to a post I would never describe as mature.

 

[lrs68]

Really? Do you believe that Christ is Savior?

Understanding and truly believing are two very different things

You don't even know that parts of the Bible aren't spiritual that requires the Holy Ghost to understand it. You act like if I take Daniel under king Darius that I can't find Darius in the secular history books which you can. So it doesn't take being Saved to understand that part of the Bible. But you think so and prove that you really don't know as much as you proclaim to know.

 

[Blain]

How many types of freedom in your world exist? You are either free or you're not.

I answered your scripture. It doesn't mention our will either yet you want to berate me for my logic. Why don't you try reading how it begins ....

Romans 6:16-18
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

So please tell me how you are going to offer yourself if not from your free will? Being compelled to be a slave is not our offering.

None of us offered ourselves to be born sinners. We inherited that from Adam and had no choice in the matter. As people freed from sin we do have a choice, freely follow your flesh or freely follow the Spirit.

Your logic has a Clayton's freedom, it's the freedom you have when you don't have freedom.

As far as your understanding of offering yourself goes yes it is a choice but one only influenced or given when one is quickened by the spirit
You cannot in your natural state offer yourself up because in your natural state you do not understand percieve or care about the kingdom.

But you see my side of the discussion doesn't require that a verse shows free will but yours does and you have yet to be able to do so you keep trying to make it make sense but it doesn't line up with scripture

There are two kinds of freedom freedom from sin and freedom to do as we please only one exists within a believer . once you are saved which happens only after you are quickened by the spirit then you no longer are a slave to sin but a slave to Christ. The verses I gave are clear

 

[Magenta]

John 6 v 45 It is written in the Prophets. 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to me.

 

[Magenta]

As far as your understanding of offering yourself goes yes it is a choice but one only influenced or given when one is quickened by the spirit
You cannot in your natural state offer yourself up because in your natural state you do not understand percieve or care about the kingdom.

But you see my side of the discussion doesn't require that a verse shows free will but yours does and you have yet to be able to do so you keep trying to make it make sense but it doesn't line up with scripture

There are two kinds of freedom freedom from sin and freedom to do as we please only one exists within a believer . once you are saved which happens only after you are quickened by the spirit then you no longer are a slave to sin but a slave to Christ. The verses I gave are clear

Scripture plainly states that those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. FWers want to pretend everyone does,
everyone hears, everyone is free to choose when they are actually blinded, cannot see or comprehend and also hear
the gospel as foolishness. Those without the spirit are controlled by the flesh which serves the law of sin, and cannot
please God. That would include coming to faith, without which is is impossible to please God. Slaves to sin and lovers
of darkness refusing to come into the light do not make the declension FWers claim. They need to be set free first.

 

[Blain]

Scripture plainly states that those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. FWers want to pretend everyone does, everyone hears,
everyone is free to choose when they are actually blinded, cannot see or comprehend and also hear the gospel as foolishness. Those without the spirit are controlled by the flesh which serves the law of sin, and cannot please God. That would include coming to faith, without which is is impossible to please God.

Yep this is true and this is also why @sawdust logic fails on itself

 

[rogerg]

You don't even know that parts of the Bible aren't spiritual that requires the Holy Ghost to understand it. You act like if I take Daniel under king Darius that I can't find Darius in the secular history books which you can. So it doesn't take being Saved to understand that part of the Bible. But you think so and prove that you really don't know as much as you proclaim to know.

Do you believe that Christ is the Savior or not? Yes or no, please

 

[lrs68]

Do you believe that Christ is the Savior or not? Yes or no, please

Yes, I do!!

But that has nothing to do with the Natural Man not being able to understand the historical portion of the Bible.

 

[rogerg]

Yes, I do!!

But that has nothing to do with the Natural Man not being able to understand the historical portion of the Bible.

You're changing the subject. We were discussing faith, the spiritual, and salvation. The historical portion is not relevant to that

 

[lrs68]

You're changing the subject. We were discussing faith, the spiritual, and salvation. The historical portion is not relevant to that

We were talking about if those without God could understand the Bible so those portions are extremely viable.