The A, B, C,s of Faith and faithing.

[Watchman22]

Salvation is by "Grace" through "Faith".

Grace, the prefect work that Christ did in His life, death, and resurrection. There is "nothing" that's required to be added to His life of Faith and faithing. "He" is the first goer of Faith. His life on earth was and is a completed work that needs "nothing" added to it.

With that foundation laid, What is the "through Faith" part of Eph. 2:8-9?

The "through Faith" portion of Eph. 2:8-9 is our "mandatory" response to said Grace, the free gift.

First a couple of facts that need to be understood and looked at. The English word "Faith" a noun, is "pistis" in the Greek, used 245 times in the NT. Then, we have the corresponding verb to the noun pistis, is "pisteuo". Pisteuo is the application of the noun Faith. Pisteuo is an action word. Pisteuo could not be translated into the english language because the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to our English word Faith like the Greek does. Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

The words the translators should have had available to them are faithe, faither, and faither. But since the English had no word that could correctly translate pisteuo, the translators chose the words believe, believer, and believing to translate pisteuo. The words, believe, believer, and believing are not in the Greek language. They did not allow a state of being where someone is just sitting in a neutral state. You either have pisteuo moving towards something, or "Apisteuo" moving away from something, no middle ground.

Now since pisteuo is mistranslated into the English language, of course it got mistranslated back out of the English and stamped back onto the Greek. whenever you research believe in the Greek, it comes up pisteuo. Well the word believe is not in the Greek language. The strongs gives a disclaimer saying," pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

The Vines definition is the best. "Pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." This defines the exact definition of the fathing response to the free gift of Grace that God requires to be in Christ and recieve the Grace deposit.

So lets look at the A, B, C,s of Faith.
Pisteuo, or what should be faithing (not believing) is an "Act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence."
A) The act, "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender."
B) Based upon a belief, "that God will accept the genuine (not perfect) surrendered life."
C) Sustained by confidence, " That God will keep, maintain, and protect the surrendered life."

This is not a work added to Grace, this is a correct response to that Grace that must be fulfilled daily, hourly if need be.

Every called out one knows in their hearts that there's more to "believing" than just "believing", well this is the more.

Questions?

Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

@studier, you might like this

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

When God told the childless Abraham that his seed would be as numerous as the stars of heaven, he was persuaded in his heart that God was speaking the truth and that he would bring his words to pass. Then over course of years he acted on that confidence he had in God's promises by obeying his instructions, ie, circumcision and sacrifice of Isaac, which sealed and perfected his faith.

So faith means to be persuaded and act with confidence on that persuasion

 

[Watchman22]

@studier, you might like this

I'm kind of a luddite, and not a very well off financially one. If I could, I wouldn't know how.

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

When God told the childless Abraham that his seed would be as numerous as the stars of heaven, he was persuaded in his heart that God was speaking the truth and that he would bring his words to pass. Then over course of years he acted on that confidence he had in God's promises by obeying his instructions, ie, circumcision and sacrifice of Isaac, which sealed and perfected his faith.

So faith means to be persuaded and act with confidence on that persuasion

Yup , i agree. But that's the Noun pistis, our English word for Faith.

I'm focused on the corresponding verb pisteuo, that couldn't be correctly translated into the English. And defines exactly the act that is required to respond to the call of the Father. "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." Vines Greek dictionary.

Action, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. A,B,C,s of Faith.

Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yup , i agree. But that's the Noun pistis, our English word for Faith.

I'm focused on the corresponding verb pisteuo, that couldn't be correctly translated into the English. And defines exactly the act that is required to respond to the call of the Father. "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." Vines Greek dictionary.

Action, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. A,B,C,s of Faith.

Jay

Persuaded is a verb. Abraham was persuaded. I was persuaded in my heart that Jesus was the truth when the spirit first spoke to me through the bible.

 

[Watchman22]

Persuaded is a verb. Abraham was persuaded. I was persuaded in my heart that Jesus was the truth when the spirit first spoke to me through the bible.

To be persuaded "is" a part of pisteuo and part of the faithing process. But until the surrendered life is offered, deemed genuine, accepted, and the Grace deposit sealed inside, Gods word and the promises therein are not ours yet. In my understanding.

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

Persuaded is a verb. Abraham was persuaded. I was persuaded in my heart that Jesus was the truth when the spirit first spoke to me through the bible.

Do you agree with the Vines definition of pisteuo? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.?
Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you agree with the Vines definition of pisteuo? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.?
Jay

I don't consider the word surrender to be an accurate description of what I experienced when I got saved. I'm sure it has its place, but it doesn't do much for me personally. I can't say why, but if something comes to me I'll respond back

 

[Watchman22]

I don't consider the word surrender to be an accurate description of what I experienced when I got saved. I'm sure it has its place, but it doesn't do much for me personally. I can't say why, but if something comes to me I'll respond back

Ya, it's something that has been kind of lost and needs to be rediscovered. I started a personal surrender to Him, and living a life inspired by such surrender 38 years ago, kind of by chance at a low point in life.

As per Gods way, it needs to be done daily, hourly if need be. And all our daily decisions should reflect that we stand on the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now. Genuinely, not perfectly.

Thanks for talking with me about this.

Jay

 

[studier]

@studier, you might like this

Thanks for the notice!

Do you agree with the Vines definition of pisteuo? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.?
Jay

Here's a link to a version of Vine's.

• To find the "surrender" comment we have to look under "Faith" in the Greek section of the Dictionary.
  • When we see the verse Vine uses in this regard, he's referencing "pisteuo eis" (believe into) - John's favorite terminology, so Vine is dealing with how he sees this phrase at minimum being transitional and coming into a surrendered relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
• There is also an entry for "Believe"
• There are also entries for "Believe" and "Faithful" under the Hebrew words section.

I think what you're saying is a composite of teachings that may take from Vine's and put things together. It's been many years since I heard or read any teachings that took this position that "faithing" or such was a more specific translation of pisteuo.

In my studies of these words, I've found that it's simply best to let the Bible explain what it means to pisteuo (verb) or to have pistis (noun).

One of the main problems we have today is that a popular system of theology has worked very hard to strip away virtually every word the Bible attaches to pisteuo and pistis that give it its biblical meaning. But, as you seem to be noticing, one of the main things about believing in God is that it's relational and since it's us believing in God and who He is, it's our being surrendered / submissive to Him as God.

I don't think we have to go to "faithing" or "faither" to grasp the meaning of the Greek words, which tie back to Hebrew words. We simply need to let God's Word progressively explain what words are used to describe what is intrinsic to genuine faith in God and His Son. One such word is "obedience".

 

[Watchman22]

Thanks for the notice!



Here's a link to a version of Vine's.

• To find the "surrender" comment we have to look under "Faith" in the Greek section of the Dictionary.
  • When we see the verse Vine uses in this regard, he's referencing "pisteuo eis" (believe into) - John's favorite terminology, so Vine is dealing with how he sees this phrase at minimum being transitional and coming into a surrendered relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
• There is also an entry for "Believe"
• There are also entries for "Believe" and "Faithful" under the Hebrew words section.

I think what you're saying is a composite of teachings that may take from Vine's and put things together. It's been many years since I heard or read any teachings that took this position that "faithing" or such was a more specific translation of pisteuo.

In my studies of these words, I've found that it's simply best to let the Bible explain what it means to pisteuo (verb) or to have pistis (noun).

One of the main problems we have today is that a popular system of theology has worked very hard to strip away virtually every word the Bible attaches to pisteuo and pistis that give it its biblical meaning. But, as you seem to be noticing, one of the main things about believing in God is that it's relational and since it's us believing in God and who He is, it's our being surrendered / submissive to Him as God.

I don't think we have to go to "faithing" or "faither" to grasp the meaning of the Greek words, which tie back to Hebrew words. We simply need to let God's Word progressively explain what words are used to describe what is intrinsic to genuine faith in God and His Son. One such word is "obedience".

I have the accual texts of the New Strongs expanded, and the Vines expository of NT words,

Faithe, faithing, and faither, are just what i think the English should have had for the translators. Maybe if those words were available the defintion would have been better communicated. Pisteuo has trouble being communicated with a single word. The word believe is only mentioned in my Vines text where it states" all this stands in "contrast" to belief in it's purely natural exercise, which consists of an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference of its proof.

I won't take off the table that the mistranslated state of "believing" couldn't grow into a surrendered life, fulfilling the mandate, "through Faith." But the majority of the called out ones of today are being mislead by a doctrine of "believe and recieve." IMO.

My opinion includes what happens when a called out one continually surrendered their life to the anointed messiah everyday. And thats where my tools of persuasion have to end.

thanks Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I won't take off the table that the mistranslated state of "believing" couldn't grow into a surrendered life, fulfilling the mandate, "through Faith." But the majority of the called out ones of today are being mislead by a doctrine of "believe and recieve." IMO.

I agree. Problem with believe is that it can refer to just mental belief without involvement of the heart.

 

[Watchman22]

I agree. Problem with believe is that it can refer to just mental belief without involvement of the heart.

Yes Crfd, i agree.

What are you called in here? Iydm.

And is studier an AI?

Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes Crfd, i agree.

What are you called in here? Iydm.

And is studier an AI?

Jay

What do you mean by "what are you called in here"? No, studier is the real deal and a blessing. Some divisive fool was spreading rumors that he and I are AI because we called him out for using it.

 

[Watchman22]

Thanks for the notice!



Here's a link to a version of Vine's.

• To find the "surrender" comment we have to look under "Faith" in the Greek section of the Dictionary.
  • When we see the verse Vine uses in this regard, he's referencing "pisteuo eis" (believe into) - John's favorite terminology, so Vine is dealing with how he sees this phrase at minimum being transitional and coming into a surrendered relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
• There is also an entry for "Believe"
• There are also entries for "Believe" and "Faithful" under the Hebrew words section.

I think what you're saying is a composite of teachings that may take from Vine's and put things together. It's been many years since I heard or read any teachings that took this position that "faithing" or such was a more specific translation of pisteuo.

In my studies of these words, I've found that it's simply best to let the Bible explain what it means to pisteuo (verb) or to have pistis (noun).

One of the main problems we have today is that a popular system of theology has worked very hard to strip away virtually every word the Bible attaches to pisteuo and pistis that give it its biblical meaning. But, as you seem to be noticing, one of the main things about believing in God is that it's relational and since it's us believing in God and who He is, it's our being surrendered / submissive to Him as God.

I don't think we have to go to "faithing" or "faither" to grasp the meaning of the Greek words, which tie back to Hebrew words. We simply need to let God's Word progressively explain what words are used to describe what is intrinsic to genuine faith in God and His Son. One such word is "obedience".

There's two words for Faith in the Hebrew, both pictorial.

1) The running to the shelter of a mother birds wings. Emphasis on the continual running towards something.

2) The leaning on a staff. emphasis on the leaning on a staff with all your weight behind it.

J

 

[Watchman22]

What do you mean by "what am you called in here"? No, studier is the real deal and a blessing. Some divisive fool was spreading rumors that he and I are AI because we called him out for using it.

What name do others refer to you here? Or do you want to be referred to by your nick?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What name do others refer to you here? Or do you want to be referred to by your nick?

Oh I see. My account name is what I go by.

 

[Karlon]

Salvation is by "Grace" through "Faith".

Grace, the prefect work that Christ did in His life, death, and resurrection. There is "nothing" that's required to be added to His life of Faith and faithing. "He" is the first goer of Faith. His life on earth was and is a completed work that needs "nothing" added to it.

With that foundation laid, What is the "through Faith" part of Eph. 2:8-9?

The "through Faith" portion of Eph. 2:8-9 is our "mandatory" response to said Grace, the free gift.

First a couple of facts that need to be understood and looked at. The English word "Faith" a noun, is "pistis" in the Greek, used 245 times in the NT. Then, we have the corresponding verb to the noun pistis, is "pisteuo". Pisteuo is the application of the noun Faith. Pisteuo is an action word. Pisteuo could not be translated into the english language because the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to our English word Faith like the Greek does. Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

The words the translators should have had available to them are faithe, faither, and faither. But since the English had no word that could correctly translate pisteuo, the translators chose the words believe, believer, and believing to translate pisteuo. The words, believe, believer, and believing are not in the Greek language. They did not allow a state of being where someone is just sitting in a neutral state. You either have pisteuo moving towards something, or "Apisteuo" moving away from something, no middle ground.

Now since pisteuo is mistranslated into the English language, of course it got mistranslated back out of the English and stamped back onto the Greek. whenever you research believe in the Greek, it comes up pisteuo. Well the word believe is not in the Greek language. The strongs gives a disclaimer saying," pisteuo means "not" just to believe."

The Vines definition is the best. "Pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." This defines the exact definition of the fathing response to the free gift of Grace that God requires to be in Christ and recieve the Grace deposit.

So lets look at the A, B, C,s of Faith.
Pisteuo, or what should be faithing (not believing) is an "Act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence."
A) The act, "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender."
B) Based upon a belief, "that God will accept the genuine (not perfect) surrendered life."
C) Sustained by confidence, " That God will keep, maintain, and protect the surrendered life."

This is not a work added to Grace, this is a correct response to that Grace that must be fulfilled daily, hourly if need be.

Every called out one knows in their hearts that there's more to "believing" than just "believing", well this is the more.

Questions?

Jay

the title reminds me of don gosset, "the alphabet preacher". i saw him preach in the late 90's in albany new york.

 

[Watchman22]

Thanks for the notice!



Here's a link to a version of Vine's.

• To find the "surrender" comment we have to look under "Faith" in the Greek section of the Dictionary.
  • When we see the verse Vine uses in this regard, he's referencing "pisteuo eis" (believe into) - John's favorite terminology, so Vine is dealing with how he sees this phrase at minimum being transitional and coming into a surrendered relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
• There is also an entry for "Believe"
• There are also entries for "Believe" and "Faithful" under the Hebrew words section.

I think what you're saying is a composite of teachings that may take from Vine's and put things together. It's been many years since I heard or read any teachings that took this position that "faithing" or such was a more specific translation of pisteuo.

In my studies of these words, I've found that it's simply best to let the Bible explain what it means to pisteuo (verb) or to have pistis (noun).

One of the main problems we have today is that a popular system of theology has worked very hard to strip away virtually every word the Bible attaches to pisteuo and pistis that give it its biblical meaning. But, as you seem to be noticing, one of the main things about believing in God is that it's relational and since it's us believing in God and who He is, it's our being surrendered / submissive to Him as God.

I don't think we have to go to "faithing" or "faither" to grasp the meaning of the Greek words, which tie back to Hebrew words. We simply need to let God's Word progressively explain what words are used to describe what is intrinsic to genuine faith in God and His Son. One such word is "obedience".

Obedience is a completely different Greek word. Hupakoe used 11 times, hupakouo used 2 times, hupotasso used 1 time, hupekoos used 2 times,

The Greek language is the most precise languages on the planet.