144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

[rogerg]

Exactly! Well said. Indeed they divorced themselves from the God of Israel, when they had Him crucified on a cross. By willfully 'freeing' themselves from Jesus Christ through death, they freed themselves from their legal husband. By choice, natural Israel widowed themselves from the LORD God of Israel:

I think these verses could also be considered as substantiation that the true spiritual Church has become the Israel of God:

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[ATG]

Even if, though being actual events, yet having had their genesis from, because of, and within an allegory, even though real, would that make them any less allegorical than the allegory that spawned them to begin with, and which they therefore are a part of?

Of course. And if I misread you, I apologize. Perceiving the spiritual, symbolic, and allegorical meaning of true events is necessary to acknowledge and understand the things of the Spirit:

Jhn 16:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The problem is only when a true event is stripped of it's true occurrence, in order to make it only symbolic. That's when the true prophecy of Scripture is made less sure like fables. The Bible is made into another book of symbols, allegories, and 'Aesop' fables...

2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

[Gal 4:23-28 KJV]
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

All Christians in Christ are born of the Spirit, and children of Abraham as Isaac was, by faith. All Christians are not natural children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

All Christians are now children of the new Israel of God, born of the risen God of Israel, though not all born children of national Israel. By the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in NT Scripture, which is now the truth, there are two Israels on earth: Naturally born Israel after the flesh, called Israelites and Jews, and Spirit-born Israel of God, called Christians, both Jews and Greeks.

1Co 10:18
Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Christians that interpret any NT prophecy, as pertaining only to the Christian Jews, are dividing the body of Christ between Jew and Greek, by disannulling the NT gospel and doctrine, that there is no more Jew nor Greek in the Israel of God on earth.

Many times, both Old and New testament prophecy is wrongly interpreted today, by neglecting to apply NT doctrine to the fulfillment of the prophecy. OT prophecy does not 'bypass' NT doctrine, in order to be fulfilled later in a way that negates the NT altogether.

Even in Ezekiel's prophecy of the coming King's reign on earth, the NT truth of spiritual circumcision is included, for the natural Jews that will serve in His national priesthood on earth:

Eze 44:9
Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

 

[ATG]

I think these verses could also be considered as substantiation that the true spiritual Church has become the Israel of God:

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Exactly. The holy nation of Israel is the grafted Israel of God, not any sinful nation of people, including that of natural Israel.

And Paul in Rom 2 even includes Jews in his boldness, that the NT Christians with inward circumcision of Christ, are the only Jews acknowledged in Scripture of God.

Rom 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And I'll add even further, that the use of the word 'Gentiles' for nations in the NT, is now a doctrinal error. Unlike in the OT, Ethnos in the NT is now properly all nations on earth, which includes the natural nation of Israeli, Britain, American, S. African, etc...None of those nations on earth are themselves the holy nation and Israel of God. The redeemed of Christ Jesus, as you consistently quote, are from among all the nations of earth, whether Israeli, Britain, American, S. African, etc...

The natural Israelites and Jews having the God of Israel crucified, as you show, divorce themselves from the covenant promise of the Spirit, and make themselves uncircumcised to God. All nations of the earth and people, not born of Christ, are now Gentile to God,. Whether Israeli, Britain, American, S. African, etc...

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the nations be come in.

Members of all nations are now coming into the Israel of God on earth, until the risen God of Israel returns, and gathers the fulness of His holy nation and body to Himself in the air, fully numbered by 144,000.

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

That is when all the Israel of God, from among all the nations of the earth, shall be saved by the second coming of the Deliverer of Sion. The prophecy is not that all natural Israelites will be saved at His return, and especially not that national Israelites will be the only nation with Christians resurrected and recieved to Christ...

So long as anyone continues to reject the NT truth of two Israels now on earth, then they will remain blind to the Spirit's truth for all that repent on earth:

Rom 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

They will continue to preach a prophecy of division in the body of Christ between natural Jews and natural Greeks, Scythians, Russians, Brits...

It is not possible by the NT gospel and doctrine of Christ, for the seal of the living God to be upon the foreheads of only upon Jewish servants of the crucified and risen Lamb of God, to the exclusion of lesser 'gentiles'. That was so in the beginning of Jesus' church on earth, it remains so today in the NT Israel of God on earth, and shall surely be so until His return to earth.

Unless of course the gospel is changed to another gospel, that is after the flesh, and not only the Spirit:

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[ATG]

The word is written in our dna that's why it is manifested outwardly.So when I talk about the symbolism of the body then it is the truth,and not a fable because we are created in the image of God.In the image of the Living Word.This is what has been blowing my mind recently.
That we are quite literally the manifested word of God in the flesh.The scripture is in our dna.
Unbelievable.Even to you.I believe it so,and probably not a lot of others will believe it but I'll reveal it regardless.Hopefully some will get this feeling which hits me as well.God is great!

Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

We are His manifest word in the flesh, if we are faithful to His word, and not found transgressors with the world.

 

[ATG]

The 144,000 are the first fruits, the Great Multitude is the full harvest. It is the ultimate fulfillment of the Feast of First Fruit.

They are the fulness of the nations that should repent and be saved until the Lord's return, whether Israeli, Greek, Russian, Somali, etc...

They are the firstfruits of the bodily resurrection of His church at His return...

 

[ATG]

Aaron56 said:
""The number 144,000 is intentional and signifies "fullness that is immeasurable". ATG REPLIES
""Your use of fullness is very good:""

The 144,000 are FIRSTFRUITS.
NOT "FULLNESS"
Main harvest FOLLOWS firstfruits.

All having the firstfruits of the Spirit, are the firstfruits of the Lord on earth, until His return.

Jhn 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

At his return He harvests unto Himself, the High Priest, the fulness of His firstfruits from the earth.

FURSTFRUITS is a tiny part of MAIN HARVEST

The firstfruits harvest is of all the firstfruits of the Spirit at the High Priest's coming. The main harvest is all the following fruits of His Millenium kingdom.

It's not known the ratio of firstfruits harvest to main harvest, but the Lord's Millennium will be the greatest harvest of souls on the earth, more than all the thousands of years going before...

Judaizers isolating Jewish firstfruits on earth, to themselves alone at the firstfruits harvest of the High Priest, preaches another gospel with respect to the flesh. That is not preached in the Scripture's gospel of the Spirit, without respect of persons.

Their natural eyes for natural flesh alone, are blind to the Scripture's division between the natural Israeli's, and the Spirit-born Israel of God.

1Co 10:18
Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

 

[Aaron56]

Why not just accept who the Scriptures says the 144,000 are?
12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Why not accept that Jesus is an actual lion? Or lamb? Or the root of a tree?

"Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed, so that he is able to open the scroll and its seven seals. Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. "

I guess you don't believe in the inspired word of God.

See how that works?

Never fear: "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him"

 

[ATG]

If we recognize the “hear and the see” examples in the book, as I posted, we will have wisdom to understand Revelation 7.

Insisting the written text is always literal prevents one from receiving wisdom. Jesus would have to be a literal lion and a literal lamb.

True. Likewise, accepting the literal also leads to wisdom of Scriptural truth. The 144,000 are literal sealed servants of God, even if the number is a sum of their fulness.

Therefore, the literal difference in names on the list between the OT and NT, is either Scriptural error, or is a literal division of Scripture between OT Israel born after the flesh, and the NT Israel of God born after the Spirit.

So, when the names of the tribes are used to describe the multitude, we should study the meaning of the names, why the names were given, and how the ones named lived toward God. You will then discover facets not only of the people of God in Christ but qualities of Christ Himself.

For example: why omit Dan?

There may be no reason other than God choosing to omit one, and insert another, simply to ensure a right dividing of Scripture, that the NT Israel of God is not limited to the OT Israel of flesh and blood.



Dan had a penchant for preparation for warfare. That was one facet of his ability and character. Well, in the eternal, God has no enemies. For these shown among the 144,000, the last enemy, Death, has been defeated: they are gathered to the Lord eternally alive. There is more to this for sure, this is just an example.[/QUOTE]

Or, a study of Dan's northern raid on the Zidonians in Judges, combined in Ezekiel with their foremost place of land division at the Lord's return, can be counted as a commendation for their industrious spirit. Especially since for the first time, all the tribe of Dan will be moved by the Lord Himself, from midwest Israel to all the northern border. Which will encompass their old famous city of Dan, that became the northern border of Israel, with the southern border of Beersheba. A Scripturally 'poetic' reward, so to speak...

 

[ATG]

ATG, Rev 7 doesn’t leave room for "spiritualizing" the TRIBES, listed in every verse.

It doesn't leave room for the OT tribes listed by name in Rev 7. Unless NT Scripture breaks the OT.

Rev 7 being a NT prophecy is made by the Spirit of truth, to reveal the NT Israel of God is now one holy nation, without respect of persons after the flesh.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

At this time, you're just repeating yourself, without responding directly to at least one Scripture and point, that I've given you. (Perhaps you can directly address the one made here for you the 3rd time.) Otherwise, I don't continue responding directly to the points of others, without having the courtesy returned to me.

1 Cor 9: 26
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

 

[ATG]

144,000 people are the jews. They are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel.

So I've heard. I've given many Scriptures and reasons why they are the NT Israel of God, and cannot be OT tribes of Jews alone.

If you'd like to directly respond to any one of my points, and show any error in it, then I'd be glad to see it.

 

[ATG]

Why are the 144K sealed?

We know they are sealed because they are the servants of the living God. WE also know they are resurrected to be with the Lord standing on heavenly mount Sion.

It looks like the firstfruits resurrected from the dead, are sealed with the Father's name in their immortal foreheads.

Rev 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Heb{12:22}
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

Then, the lamb opens the seventh seal and there is silence in heaven for half an hour and the 7 angels are given 7 trumpets and another angel with the golden censor containing the prayer of the saints fills it with fire from the alter and hurls it to the earth. (Rev 8:1-5)

This is not the tribulation, this is wrath.

This is tribulation, indignation, and wrath of the Lamb upon the ungodly of the earth at His return.

2Th 1:6
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Before which He resurrects and raptures His redeemed saints into the air with Him:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Which is at the end of the tribulation, persecution, and wrath of the ungodly upon the godly:

2Th 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Rev 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

We know they are sealed because they are the servants of the living God. WE also know they are resurrected to be with the Lord standing on heavenly mount Sion.

This doesn't follow. The word harpazo doesn't mean resurrected. We have all come to Mt Zion.

 

[ATG]

No.

Yes.

The tribes are all Jewish.

The Lamb's Israel of God is not all Jewish.

"Israelites" if the word "Jew" is too upsetting.

It's always just a matter of time. If you're going to play the Jewish card, then we're finished. Here and anywhere else on this sight.

1) the times of the Gentiles ends at the start of the 7 yr trib..

The times for the nations to enter the Israel of God, ends at the Lord's return.

That is why you need the 144,000 to be Greeks.

This is why Christ seeks Jews, Greeks, Syrians, Brits... to be graffed into His Israel of God.

The 144,000 ONLY FIT PRETRIB RAPTURE.

True. They are sealed post-tribulation of the ungodly upon the saints, and pre-tribulation of the Lamb upon the ungodly.

Only pretribbers can say WHO the 144K are.

Only Christians without respect of flesh and persons, can know who the 144k are.

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[ATG]

This doesn't follow. The word harpazo doesn't mean resurrected.

Correct. Well done. It means catching away the church from the earth, to meet with the Lord in the air. Which begins with the church's resurrection on earth. Harpazo is for the ascension of the church into the air.

Rapture is a descriptive term used for the passion and joy of resurrection and ascension.

2Thess 1
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

We have all come to Mt Zion.

{12:22}
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

All redeemed saints on earth are coming to Mount Sion, until the Lord comes again to catch us away to His Mt Sion in the air.

Mt Zion is on earth with this Jerusalem. Mt Sion is heavenly with the Lamb, who will come again, and set foot on earthly Mt Zion to inherit and rule all nations of the earth:

Joe 3:16
The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Psa 67:40
let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Correct. Well done. It means catching away the church from the earth, to meet with the Lord in the air. Which begins with the church's resurrection on earth. Harpazo is for the ascension of the church into the air.

Rapture is a descriptive term used for the passion and joy of resurrection and ascension.

2Thess 1
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


{12:22}
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

All redeemed saints on earth are coming to Mount Sion, until the Lord comes again to catch us away to His Mt Sion in the air.

Mt Zion is on earth with this Jerusalem. Mt Sion is heavenly with the Lamb, who will come again, and set foot on earthly Mt Zion to inherit and rule all nations of the earth:

Joe 3:16
The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Psa 67:40
let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

No, I as referring to this harpazo. This manchild is the 144,000 standing on Mt Zion. They are seized by God to Mt Zion, but it says nothing about being resurrected.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 12:5​

​

Mt Zion and Mt Sion are the same thing; just a queer spelling in the latter case.

 

[FlyingDove]

It doesn't leave room for the OT tribes listed by name in Rev 7. Unless NT Scripture breaks the OT.

Rev 7 being a NT prophecy is made by the Spirit of truth, to reveal the NT Israel of God is now one holy nation, without respect of persons after the flesh.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

At this time, you're just repeating yourself, without responding directly to at least one Scripture and point, that I've given you. (Perhaps you can directly address the one made here for you the 3rd time.) Otherwise, I don't continue responding directly to the points of others, without having the courtesy returned to me.

1 Cor 9: 26
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

 

[FlyingDove]

It doesn't leave room for the OT tribes listed by name in Rev 7. Unless NT Scripture breaks the OT.

Rev 7 being a NT prophecy is made by the Spirit of truth, to reveal the NT Israel of God is now one holy nation, without respect of persons after the flesh.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

At this time, you're just repeating yourself, without responding directly to at least one Scripture and point, that I've given you. (Perhaps you can directly address the one made here for you the 3rd time.) Otherwise, I don't continue responding directly to the points of others, without having the courtesy returned to me.

1 Cor 9: 26
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

And you just keep making stuff up.

Here Rev 7:4-8 a direct Copy & Paste (I didn't write it & yes I'll keep reposting the truth as it's written)

Rev 7:
4 And I heard how many were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand; [twelve thousand] sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Twelve thousand were sealed from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand from the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand from the tribe of Gad,

6 twelve thousand from the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand from the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand from the tribe of Manasseh,

7 twelve thousand from the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand from the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand from the tribe of Issachar,

8 twelve thousand from the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand from the tribe of Joseph, and twelve thousand from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed (marked, redeemed, protected).

REREADING vs 4: 12k SEALED from EVERY TRIBE of the SONS of ISRAEL! That would be Jacob's sons,

The next 4 verses name the exact TRIBES referenced!

Bottom line: John's God breathed writings cites the Rev 7 144k are literal Israelites, sealed for a specific purpose. Rev 7 is about Jacob/Israel's tribes, exactly as written.

These 144k are found again in Rev 14:

Rev 14:
3 And they sang a new song before the throne [of God] and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased (ransomed, redeemed) from the earth.

4 These are the ones who have not been defiled [by relations] with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased and redeemed from among men [of Israel] as the first fruits [sanctified and set apart for special service] for God and the Lamb.
(MY NOTE: These 144k of ISRAEL were the FIRST FRUITS REDEEMED from AMONG MEN of ISRAEL, sanctified & set apart for special service onto God & the Lamb!)

Just read the text & quit making stuff up. Truths revealed because God breathed scripture say's so. Not because you say so.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And you just keep making stuff up.

Here Rev 7:4-8 a direct Copy & Paste (I didn't write it & yes I'll keep reposting the truth as it's written)

Rev 7:
4 And I heard how many were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand; [twelve thousand] sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Twelve thousand were sealed from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand from the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand from the tribe of Gad,

6 twelve thousand from the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand from the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand from the tribe of Manasseh,

7 twelve thousand from the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand from the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand from the tribe of Issachar,

8 twelve thousand from the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand from the tribe of Joseph, and twelve thousand from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed (marked, redeemed, protected).

REREADING vs 4: 12k SEALED from EVERY TRIBE of the SONS of ISRAEL! That would be Jacob's sons,

The next 4 verses name the exact TRIBES referenced!

Bottom line: John's God breathed writings cites the Rev 7 144k are literal Israelites, sealed for a specific purpose. Rev 7 is about Jacob/Israel's tribes, exactly as written.

These 144k are found again in Rev 14:

Rev 14:
3 And they sang a new song before the throne [of God] and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased (ransomed, redeemed) from the earth.

4 These are the ones who have not been defiled [by relations] with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased and redeemed from among men [of Israel] as the first fruits [sanctified and set apart for special service] for God and the Lamb.
(MY NOTE: These 144k of ISRAEL were the FIRST FRUITS REDEEMED from AMONG MEN of ISRAEL, sanctified & set apart for special service onto God & the Lamb!)

Just read the text & quit making stuff up. Truths revealed because God breathed scripture say's so. Not because you say so.

The Amplified Bible is a horrible translation to be quoting from. Talk about making stuff up...

 

[FlyingDove]

The Amplified Bible is a horrible translation to be quoting from. Talk about making stuff up...

LOL, The inspired word is the inspired word. Chose any version that fits your fancy.

KJV
Rev 7:
4 And I heard how many were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand; [twelve thousand] sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 Twelve thousand were sealed from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand from the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand from the tribe of Gad,
6 twelve thousand from the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand from the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 twelve thousand from the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand from the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand from the tribe of Issachar,
8 twelve thousand from the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand from the tribe of Joseph, and twelve thousand from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed (marked, redeemed, protected).

REREADING vs 4, """from every tribe of the sons of Israel""". The next 4 verses name the exact TRIBE referenced!

Bottom line: John's God breathed writings cites the Rev 7 144k are literal Israelites, sealed for a specific purpose. Rev 7 is about Jacob/Israel's tribes, exactly as written. Happy now?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

REREADING vs 4, """from every tribe of the sons of Israel""". The next 4 verses name the exact TRIBE referenced!

When wild olive branches are grafted into the olive tree of Israel, they become sons of Israel. And everyone in Israel belongs to a tribe according to God's choice. It is even witnessed in the prophets that God would join gentiles to the tribe of Levi.

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:19-21​