Marriage question

[jchristian]

You know as much as we split hairs about the Scriptures, I just realized a few things. I think these things should be considered.

Here's what Jesus said about adultery: Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

FACT: Jesus didn't specifically say anything about a woman looking at a man commits adultery. [If we say it goes both ways, we add to the Scriptures.]

Mark 10:11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

FACT: Jesus didn't say if a man is divorced by his wife and marries another woman, HE commits adultery. [If we say that, we add to the Scriptures.]

Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

FACT: It doesn't say a man who is divorced by his wife and marries another commits adultery. [If we say that, we add to the Scriptures.]



The mail carrier's husband had an affair and divorced her. So, she wouldn't be committing adultery to remarry. And since Jesus never declared that a MAN WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED BY HIS WIFE and marries another woman commits adultery, I would say I'm free to marry her without sin.

Can anyone dispute this based upon what I presented above?

 

[jchristian]

I always suspect the men of doing the cheating while the women do the divorcing. But I could never imagine the woman of doing both the cheating and divorcing.
Like there's a mad woman on this site that will not let her cheating husband to go. To me, that's how all women are like unless she's very young and rush into a marriage without thinking that she has to give up her old lifestyle to be in a serious relationship.

But I believe that God controls our desires. If He doesn't want a person to be in a certain relationship, He'll intervene and cause the couple to lose their desire for each other. That's what I believe what the verse is saying, "Whomever God joins together, let no one separate them", that God is letting us to know that He's the one who controls destiny.


Matthew 19:6
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

God didn't join these two together that's why his desires for her was changed immediately from loving her to hating her

2 Samuel 13:14 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her.

15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, “Get up and get out!”

16 “No!” she said to him. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.”

You are in error of the Scriptures. You shouldn't be giving any advice based upon what I've read from you in this thread.

 

[4urenlightment]

You are in error of the Scriptures. You shouldn't be giving any advice based upon what I've read from you in this thread.

You are in error of the Scriptures. You shouldn't be giving any advice based upon what I've read from you in this thread.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

 

[presidente]

I always suspect the men of doing the cheating while the women do the divorcing. But I could never imagine the woman of doing both the cheating and divorcing.

Maybe you think women are good and men are bad. That's an idea that seems popular in western civilization-- that women civilize men, and some church people think that women are more spiritual. Is it really true? Maybe it's the residual affects of RCC veneration of the Virgin Mary. The preacher in Ecclesiastes 7:28 found one righteous man among a thousand but not one woman. I was reading Zechariah a few days ago, and in the basket was a woman which was wickedness. Women are not all good. Marriage problems are not always the man's fault. There are decent men who end up with adulteresses, just as there are men who do so. And since women were given the right to divorce men, 'no fault' in our society, it has come to be the case that most of these divorces are filed by women.

But I believe that God controls our desires. If He doesn't want a person to be in a certain relationship, He'll intervene and cause the couple to lose their desire for each other. That's what I believe what the verse is saying, "Whomever God joins together, let no one separate them", that God is letting us to know that He's the one who controls destiny.

That is not what it means, and that doesn't align with how Jesus explains His own words in the passage. The Lord teaches about not sinning. There are urges to sin and we are not to give in to them.

There are people who lose interest in their spouses or go through a tough time, and just want to divorce and marry someone else, but doing so is against what Jesus taught.

I really believe you might benefit from meeting regularly with a believer or some believers who can study the scriptures with you and disciple you in the faith.

Matthew 19:6
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

God didn't join these two together that's why his desires for her was changed immediately from loving her to hating her

The passage continues on and we learn that the man who puts away his wife, 'not fornication,' and marries another commits adultery. This is a warning not to put assunder what God put together.

2 Samuel 13:14 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her.

15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, “Get up and get out!”

16 “No!” she said to him. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.”

How is this relevant to your line of reasoning. This was a forbidden relationship and they could not rightly marry. She was his sister.

 

[GWH]

You done? I hope you got it all out this time.

If our Lord Jesus Christ couldn't bring my wife back and heal our marriage, I don't think mailing her the lyrics to a Monkees song will do it either.

Well, I am sure a marriage counselor would say something similar, but for some reason you do not understand my concern
is for you to learn from the failure so you will have a good chance of having a successful marriage in the future, so good lucjk!

 

[presidente]

God permits all kinds of evil. David was a murderer and and an adulterer. Did God stop him or Bathsheba? No. Did God forgive them? Yes. Were there consequences? Yes. We still reap what we sow.

David did what God did not permit. Do you think God gave David permission to commit adultery?

I used 'permit' rather than 'allowed' for this very reason....

If an innocent person commits adultery, they are not innocent. So I don't know what you are getting at.

I am getting at the fact that a man marries a woman and she leaves him... that doesn't mean that he is divorced. She gives him a piece of paper to divorce him... from the state... not in line with scripture. Why would you think they are not married'?

Does the state say who can be married? In the US, the state issues marriage certificates to two men or two women. If it offers certificates to a man and a goat, or a woman and a tree, would we recognize those as legitimate marriages? No, because that is contrary to God's word. Why would we acknowledge divorce certificates that are contrary to God's word?

"And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28

"All" includes our failures, sins, defeats and yes (gasp) divorce.

If someone asks is it a sin if I do X, using that verse to argue that if it is a sin, it works for our good would seem to be a misuse of the verse. Is that what you are getting at?

 

[jchristian]

You know as much as we split hairs about the Scriptures, I just realized a few things. I think these things should be considered.

Here's what Jesus said about adultery: Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

FACT: Jesus didn't specifically say anything about a woman looking at a man commits adultery. [If we say it goes both ways, we add to the Scriptures.]

Mark 10:11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

FACT: Jesus didn't say if a man is divorced by his wife and marries another woman, HE commits adultery. [If we say that, we add to the Scriptures.]

Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

FACT: It doesn't say a man who is divorced by his wife and marries another commits adultery. [If we say that, we add to the Scriptures.]



The mail carrier's husband had an affair and divorced her. So, she wouldn't be committing adultery to remarry. And since Jesus never declared that a MAN WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED BY HIS WIFE and marries another woman commits adultery, I would say I'm free to marry her without sin.

Can anyone dispute this based upon what I presented above?

Anyone?

 

[presidente]

The mail carrier's husband had an affair and divorced her. So, she wouldn't be committing adultery to remarry. And since Jesus never declared that a MAN WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED BY HIS WIFE and marries another woman commits adultery, I would say I'm free to marry her without sin.

Can anyone dispute this based upon what I presented above?

Anyone?

Wife divorcing husband is not legit, even according to Torah. Why would you think the divorce is legitimate? If it's adultery for him to remarry another woman, or for her to remarry another man, doesn't that imply the divorce is not valid? Isn't that why it is adultery?

So if your wife gives you a bogus divorce certificate, or if a human judge gives you a bogus divorce certificate in opposition to God's law, why would you be allowed to remarry?

 

[jchristian]

Wife divorcing husband is not legit, even according to Torah. Why would you think the divorce is legitimate? If it's adultery for him to remarry another woman, or for her to remarry another man, doesn't that imply the divorce is not valid? Isn't that why it is adultery?

So if your wife gives you a bogus divorce certificate, or if a human judge gives you a bogus divorce certificate in opposition to God's law, why would you be allowed to remarry?

Where is your Scriptural validation for this? As you can see from what I posted, you're adding to the Scriptures in what you say.

 

[presidente]

Where is your Scriptural validation for this? As you can see from what I posted, you're adding to the Scriptures in what you say.

Scriptural validation? The Torah did NOT provide for a wife to divorce her husband at all. The divorce certificate comes from a man. And of course the Pharisees and their ideological descendants in modern Orthodox Judaism acknowledge this. The burden of proof is on you to show that a woman divorcing a man is legitimate according to scripture.

Also, the man who puts away his wife and marries another committing __ adultery___.... how is that the case if the divorce is a legitimate thing?

 

[jchristian]

Scriptural validation? The Torah did NOT provide for a wife to divorce her husband at all. The divorce certificate comes from a man. And of course the Pharisees and their ideological descendants in modern Orthodox Judaism acknowledge this. The burden of proof is on you to show that a woman divorcing a man is legitimate according to scripture.

Also, the man who puts away his wife and marries another committing __ adultery___.... how is that the case if the divorce is a legitimate thing?

How can I prove a negative? You made some claims. The onus is on you to prove it with chapter and verse. I already laid out my case that nowhere does Jesus or Scripture say a man who is divorced by his wife and marries another woman commits adultery.

As for her divorcing me, her attorney didn't think it was invalid. The judge didn't think it was invalid. The State of Illinois didn't think it was invalid. If the authorities declare her divorcing me valid, by what authority do you deem them incorrect? Because if I were to go to her house right now and demand anything of her - in the name of our marriage in the sight of God - she would have a legal right to have me arrested.

I didn't put my wife away. She put me away.

"Do not be wise in your own eyes."

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Here's what Jesus said about adultery: Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

FACT: Jesus didn't specifically say anything about a woman looking at a man commits adultery. [If we say it goes both ways, we add to the Scriptures.]

So you're saying by your ungodly logic that I, a single woman (or even if I'm married), can look at a man lustfully as much as I want to since Jesus didn't specifically talk about that scenario as sin?

Excuse me, I better run over and tell the other girls! ‍

 

[jchristian]

So you're saying by your ungodly logic that I, a single woman (or even if I'm married), can look at a man lustfully as much as I want to since Jesus didn't specifically talk about that scenario as sin?

Excuse me, I better run over and tell the other girls! ‍

There's plenty of other scriptures that command you not to do so. It's not ungodly logic. It's the literal Word of God.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

There's plenty of other scriptures that command you not to do so. It's not ungodly logic. It's the literal Word of God.

Where does it say this specifically in the Bible?

 

[jchristian]

Where does it say this specifically in the Bible?

16 Passages to Read to Help Fight Lust | Crossway

 

[Gideon300]

David did what God did not permit. Do you think God gave David permission to commit adultery?

I used 'permit' rather than 'allowed' for this very reason....



I am getting at the fact that a man marries a woman and she leaves him... that doesn't mean that he is divorced. She gives him a piece of paper to divorce him... from the state... not in line with scripture. Why would you think they are not married'?

Does the state say who can be married? In the US, the state issues marriage certificates to two men or two women. If it offers certificates to a man and a goat, or a woman and a tree, would we recognize those as legitimate marriages? No, because that is contrary to God's word. Why would we acknowledge divorce certificates that are contrary to God's word?



If someone asks is it a sin if I do X, using that verse to argue that if it is a sin, it works for our good would seem to be a misuse of the verse. Is that what you are getting at?

I also said that there will be consequences if someone divorces for the wrong reasons. Or even if they are justified, it's still rarely pretty.

Keep in mind that God's law applies to the people of Israel, not to Gentiles. Christians are subject to the law of the land. You can play with semantics, but if a couple divorce, they are divorced.

God gives us free will. We get to choose. Christians "should" not divorce, but it happens. I'm proof of that. I was justified. However, I paid a terrible price. God used the situation for my good. It sure did not seem like it at the time.

Part of that price was the condemnation heaped on me by good religious Christians. None of them knew the truth. There is an automatic assumption that the man is entirely at fault. Yes, there is invariably fault on both sides, but if either spouse commits adultery, divorce is acceptable to God.

If God is the only one who can recognise divorce, then He is the only who can recognise marriage. So there are could be countless Christians living in sin, even though they are legally married. I don't accept that.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

16 Passages to Read to Help Fight Lust | Crossway

None of those verses on your list apply to your logic. Remember what you said:

Here's what Jesus said about adultery: Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

FACT: Jesus didn't specifically say anything about a woman looking at a man commits adultery. [If we say it goes both ways, we add to the Scriptures.]

So you show your own logic to be flawed.

Obviously you're hell-bent to marry your mail carrier no matter what. I don't know why you even bothered to ask about it on this forum.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

My second wife left me in a position in which she abandoned me and divorced me without infidelity. Am I scripturally free to marry this other woman?

Jesus said God hates divorce, but that a person cna get divorced if the partner is cheating. if we marry someone divorced its adultery.

 

[jchristian]

None of those verses on your list apply to your logic. Remember what you said:

So you show your own logic to be flawed.

Obviously you're hell-bent to marry your mail carrier no matter what. I don't know why you even bothered to ask about it on this forum.

I don't know why you're trying to get me with a "gotcha" moment to make yourself look smart. I literally laid out the Scriptures as they are. If you want to add to them to justify yourself, be my guest - lots of denominations do that.

I didn't lie when presenting the Scriptures just as they are, and yet you did lie about me: "Obviously you're hell-bent to marry your mail carrier no matter what." That's a bald-faced lie and God as my witness I pray to Him that His will be done in the matter. I think someone else on this thread called you out for bearing false witness. That makes at least twice you've done it on this thread. Not sure why you're hell-bent on bearing false witness about other Christians.

 

[presidente]

How can I prove a negative? You made some claims. The onus is on you to prove it with chapter and verse. I already laid out my case that nowhere does Jesus or Scripture say a man who is divorced by his wife and marries another woman commits adultery.

And I have pointed out that nowhere in scripture does it say that a woman may divorce her husband.

Deuteronomy
24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

This was the passage the Pharisees asked Jesus about when He said that Moses because of the hardness of their hearts allowed divorce, but from the beginning it was not so.

As for her divorcing me, her attorney didn't think it was invalid. The judge didn't think it was invalid. The State of Illinois didn't think it was invalid.

Two men want to marry. The county clerk considers it legal. Judges up to the state supreme court there in Illinois consider it legal. The Supreme Court considers it legal. Is it legal according to God's law? Is that a real marriage? Does God subject Himself to the state of Illinois and change His morals and His laws to conform with theirs?

Where did God say women could divorce men?

Orthodox Judaism does not consider it legitimate, even if the state does. Roman Catholics don't acknowledge divorces just because states do either. Why is it that so many Protestants think this type of documentation is valid before God if it is not based on anything in scripture?

What if the state decreed that your dad is no longer your dad? Are you going to agree with that? What if they said you are no longer a human being, that you, and everyone else born the year you are born are ducks or chickens (depending on even or odd days?) What if the trans movement evolved a bit more, and the state declared you to be of the opposite sex, and 'identified' you as a woman. Does that make you a woman?

If the authorities declare her divorcing me valid, by what authority do you deem them incorrect? Because if I were to go to her house right now and demand anything of her - in the name of our marriage in the sight of God - she would have a legal right to have me arrested.

Do you think God actually __requires__ you to go demand something of her? If not, why would this be a problem?

It is in an allegory, but this presents a woman lusting after someone who is not her husband as a corrupt thing.


Ezekiel 23:11 (English Standard Version)
"Her sister Oholibah saw this, and she became more corrupt than her sister in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister."