144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church
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It's not a list of natural tribes. That's the point.
Scripture does not break scripture so it must be understood with wisdom from above, not naturally.
"Here is wisdom" Revelation 13
"Here is the mind which has wisdom..." Revelation 17
And here it is just after these verses in Chapter 7:
Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
The point as not to prove anything, but only for emphasis, that the Lord is coming again for all them that love Him, not just for the Jews.
But, so far as Timothy himself, he was not a born Jew, but a Gentile by his father. He was not reckoned a Jew by law, until He was first circumcised in the flesh.
Lev 12:3
And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, is writing to a minister to the Gentile converts to Jesus Christ.
The 144k are FIRSTFRUITS.
Note how those that transpose the 144k into "sybolic" never address WHO THE 144K ARE.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the church.
So now you have 2 "firstfruits".
Maybe it is time to leave the book of Revelation and tamper with another part of the bible that does not have severe consequences for tampering
The bible.
144k JEWS out of JEWISH TRIBES gathered during JABOBS / ISRAEL'S TROUBLE.
YOU:
"Oh no the bible is way off on that"
They appear to the firstfruits of the dominion come in power
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Revelation 12:10
....or maybe they are who the bible says they are, "firstfruits".
Without any modifications.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the church.
But we see another firstfruits in the 144,000.
A different firstfruits.
Psssst....you can not have firstfruits without main harvest.
James called themselves firstfruits in James 1:18. There were 3 harvests in Israel: barley at the time of the festival of firstfruits, wheat at the festival of Pentecost and the end of the year harvest at the festival of tabernacles. So there were firstfruits from each of these harvests
James 1
1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
What is your point?
That Jesus is not the firstfruits of the church?
That the 144k are not firstfruit Jews?
James says basically " we are first born and from Jesus in the first part of the new family of God, allegorical a KIND OF FIRSTFRUITS to the world"
Yes 3 or 4 crops harvested of the nation.
Two distinct KINDS.
1) Grain
2) fruit.
The grain harvest is the church.( ahem.... where we see the 4 parts of THAT SPECIFIC harvest which includes the FIRSTFRUITS JESUS THEN the grain....barley and wheat, ...the rapture of 1 thes 4)
The fruit harvest is the Jews. ( WITH THAT SPECIFIC HARVEST INCLUDES FIRSTFRUIT JEWS...THEN MAIN HARVEST JEWS.)
Without all the components ( including the 2 wives), end times is a shallow back and forth, molding verses to fit a doctrine.
Who they are comes right after John looks to see:
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
It's not difficult to understand.
The number (144K) is important. I believe the names of the tribes are, too.
But they are both spiritual and so spiritually understood.
Only a bias demands both the tribes and number are physical. There's a lot of that going on for political reasons: inserting bias into the Word of God. If you can receive it I am saving YOU from changing Revelation to mean something it does not. But, I discern you will not receive it. No matter. We all start somewhere. I pray you continue your pursuit of the Truth.
Nope. because the names of the tribes are not the 12 tribes.
I realized that the correct understanding of Revelation 7 does violence to the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I can see why the spiritual understanding lights so many pants on fire.
To say "Jesus is the firstfruits of the church" is not correct. He is the firstfruits of the resurrection: the evidence of many things including triumph over death and sin and the promise of eternal life in the Spirit.
QUOTE
"To say "Jesus is the firstfruits of the church" is not correct. He is the firstfruits of the resurrection"
Here is the resurrection that Jesus is firstfruits of; ( ahem....the dead CHURCH SAINTS)
1 thes 4:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Jesus the firstfruits of the CHURCH SAINTS THAT DIED PRIOR TO THE RESURRECTION OF THE CHURCH.
Jesus, beyong question, is the firstfruits of the church.
Actually appalling you could not grasp something that basic
There is such a lack of understanding concerning harvest.
It is tedious that members here have not bothered to inform themselves of such an important dynamic.
Their pastors need to be fired.
There is no reason why they can not teach on harvest and the 2 wives.
Such a playground for the uniformed to get end times BACKWARDS.
It is tedious that members here have not bothered to inform themselves of such an important dynamic.
Their pastors need to be fired.
There is no reason why they can not teach on harvest and the 2 wives.
Such a playground for the uniformed to get end times BACKWARDS.
Lol.Nope. because the names of the tribes are not the 12 tribes.
I realized that the correct understanding of Revelation 7 does violence to the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I can see why the spiritual understanding lights so many pants on fire.
Misinformed blenderizing of God's word.
You found a SUPPOSED glitch in the Mercedes, so "logically", you scraped the car.
Got it.
Really????
That is your method?
We can all see why you change the forbidden book.Nope. because the names of the tribes are not the 12 tribes.
I realized that the correct understanding of Revelation 7 does violence to the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I can see why the spiritual understanding lights so many pants on fire.
You should approach that book with reverence.
Declaring something God said that clearly, as some garbage, is beyond appalling.