Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Magenta said:
Where is choice depicted in, those given to Jesus by God will come to Him?
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God the Father had already won us over in drawing us, before we came to Christ!
Coming to Christ is to materialize what had already taken place in the yet undefined spiritual realm of the Father drawing us.

There is no making anyone "to believe in Jesus." (irresistible grace)
For those who have already come to the Father in his drawing?
Whom we can not see?
Are then handed over to "the Father" whom they can see!

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? ​
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9​

Regeneration then equips us spiritually with what is needed to begin consciously relating to, and understanding, the spiritual realm within our human experience.

God does not make anyone believe in Him. (irresistible grace)
He gives us what is needed (Jesus Christ) for us to know that what we wanted (but could not see), was to know Him!

The Father handing us over to Jesus Christ was making us able to define what we could not define while we were being drawn and had accepted the desire to keep on being drawn.

grace and peace .........
 
1Corinthians2-14.png

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14
 
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Oh, we have another brainiac, perhaps their teacher told them that after God convicts you and convinces
you, you then get to choose/decide whether or not to believe what you are already convinced of?

Why is it free willers are so stuck on God forcing people? It just looks like another lie they
tell to prop themselves up so they can better slap others around from their high horse.
 
Jordon said:
Philippians 2:13 says different 🤐
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simplyprofound.gif

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
 
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And....

Here we be!

​
In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, ​
and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be factions among you to show which of​
you have God’s approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19​



It was inevitable.
 
Cameron143 said:
The Greek word for if is ean. It can mean if or when or whoever. So context is important. In 2 Chronicles 7, it seems to be if. The promises seem to be conditioned upon the action. But when works just as well. How about Romans 10:9? What is the best translation for ean? If or when? Most people decide by what they already believe. But...1 Corinthians 12:3 says that no one can call Jesus Lord but by the Spirit. How does this affect one's belief?
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I understand why people want to look at the Greek translations. However I dont speak Greek what would I even be looking at. I dont think the word of God is fooled by man's inability to translate. So imo what it means to me in my heart and mind is exactly what ot ment to a Greeks heart and mind when he read it. Do you ever feel like you are messing with the infalibility of scripture by saying this is what it means in Greek so that isint what it means in English?
 
Jordon said:
Philippians 2:13 says different 🤐
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Jordon?

Philippians 2:12-13


Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, ​
but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear ​
and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his ​
good purpose.​


Don't you yet know the difference between what constitutes pre-salvation grace?
And the grace believers are to receive after they have been saved?
Philippians 2:12-13 concerned those who are already saved.

Philippians 2:12-13 speaks of the internalized transforming ministry of the Holy Spirit working in believers that takes place in those who are serious about their walk with God.

It does not apply to the flittery-gibbets who wish to use their Christianity as a means for simply socializing and getting along by to pass time with like-minded people.

There is no sense of fear and trembling with your kind of thinking. For nothing is taken seriously enough to concentrate to narrow down in detail what is needed to extract truth that defies the Devil himself.


1764807875960.jpeg
 
Jackson129 said:
I understand why people want to look at the Greek translations. However I dont speak Greek what would I even be looking at. I dont think the word of God is fooled by man's inability to translate. So imo what it means to me in my heart and mind is exactly what ot ment to a Greeks heart and mind when he read it. Do you ever feel like you are messing with the infalibility of scripture by saying this is what it means in Greek so that isint what it means in English?
Click to expand...
I don't know Greek either. I just googled it. And while I do believe most translators tried very diligently to maintain the inerrancy of scripture, I don't believe in the inerrancy of translation. And no, I'm not challenging the inerrancy of scripture. I'm trying to understand it more fully. That's why I compare scripture with scripture. And it's why I asked about 1 Corinthians 12. If, in fact, no can call Jesus Lord except by the Spirit, doesn't that mean that the Spirit is already indwelling the individual? And if the Spirit is already indwelling the individual before they confess the Lord Jesus Christ, doesn't ean make better sense as when and not if in Romans 10:9?
 
Jackson129 said:
I understand why people want to look at the Greek translations. However I dont speak Greek what would I even be looking at. I dont think the word of God is fooled by man's inability to translate. So imo what it means to me in my heart and mind is exactly what ot ment to a Greeks heart and mind when he read it. Do you ever feel like you are messing with the infalibility of scripture by saying this is what it means in Greek so that isint what it means in English?
Click to expand...

Translation from the Greek requires great discipline and knowledge to render into English what the writer intended.
The Greek structure is unlike English. It was designed to pinpoint meaning and intent. That is why it was chosen for the NT.

Not many are qualified for the job to translate.
Yet too many volunteer to do so for their own glory.
For there are meant to be buried treasures hidden to be discovered within the Word of God.

Colossians 2:2-3​
​
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, ​
so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, ​
in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, ​
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.​

He is the Word! John 1:1-2.

Here is one man (of only a few) I found that is able to transform our understanding into seeing the riches contained in Scripture.
https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

And, no money will be asked for.
https://www.rbthieme.org/financialpolicy.html

Wishing you grace and peace!
 
Actually working out our Salvation as God continues to work in us is simply being alert and aligned with God to hear His instructions and apply them to improve to the person we're destined in God to become.

I went through a situation, still am actually, but reading this Verse actually just was God speaking to me... anyway...

It was a very slow process including the death of several very dear close confidants and loved ones that eventually turned into home and land disaster and little recovery. From there relationship issues to legal problems to a heap of financial troubles. Originally I thought it was because my Mother became ill and I needed to help, which is what I was supposed to and am doing but as I read the Verse it donned onto me I was alerted by God just close to a year before everything began crashing around to leave. But I ignored God.

What's interesting is whenever I finally have the answers for the trials I am struggling with the end of it is coming sooner than later.

But to have God speak to me through the medium of chat is the first time. I seriously almost cannot believe it but it's real.
 
Cameron143 said:
I don't know Greek either. I just googled it. And while I do believe most translators tried very diligently to maintain the inerrancy of scripture, I don't believe in the inerrancy of translation. And no, I'm not challenging the inerrancy of scripture. I'm trying to understand it more fully. That's why I compare scripture with scripture. And it's why I asked about 1 Corinthians 12. If, in fact, no can call Jesus Lord except by the Spirit, doesn't that mean that the Spirit is already indwelling the individual? And if the Spirit is already indwelling the individual before they confess the Lord Jesus Christ, doesn't ean make better sense as when and not if in Romans 10:9?
Click to expand...

When you read spirit do you think of holy ghost or soul?
 
Genez said:
Translation from the Greek requires great discipline and knowledge to render into English what the writer intended.
The Greek structure is unlike English. It was designed to pinpoint meaning and intent. That is why it was chosen for the NT.

Not many are qualified for the job to translate.
Yet too many volunteer to do so for their own glory.
For there are meant to be buried treasures hidden to be discovered within the Word of God.

Colossians 2:2-3​
​
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, ​
so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, ​
in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, ​
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.​

He is the Word! John 1:1-2.

Here is one man (of only a few) I found that is able to transform our understanding into seeing the riches contained in Scripture.
https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

And, no money will be asked for.
https://www.rbthieme.org/financialpolicy.html

Wishing you grace and peace!
Click to expand...

I will have to look when its not a work night
 
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Cameron143 said:
I don't know Greek either. I just googled it. And while I do believe most translators tried very diligently to maintain the inerrancy of scripture, I don't believe in the inerrancy of translation. And no, I'm not challenging the inerrancy of scripture. I'm trying to understand it more fully. That's why I compare scripture with scripture. And it's why I asked about 1 Corinthians 12. If, in fact, no can call Jesus Lord except by the Spirit, doesn't that mean that the Spirit is already indwelling the individual? And if the Spirit is already indwelling the individual before they confess the Lord Jesus Christ, doesn't ean make better sense as when and not if in Romans 10:9?
Click to expand...

Scripture does not need to be inerrant, only sufficient regarding how to be saved.
 
Genez said:
Jordon?

Philippians 2:12-13


Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, ​
but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear ​
and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his ​
good purpose.​


Don't you yet know the difference between what constitutes pre-salvation grace?
And the grace believers are to receive after they have been saved?
Philippians 2:12-13 concerned those who are already saved.

Philippians 2:12-13 speaks of the internalized transforming ministry of the Holy Spirit working in believers that takes place in those who are serious about their walk with God.

It does not apply to the flittery-gibbets who wish to use their Christianity as a means for simply socializing and getting along by to pass time with like-minded people.

There is no sense of fear and trembling with your kind of thinking. For nothing is taken seriously enough to concentrate to narrow down in detail what is needed to extract truth that defies the Devil himself.


View attachment 282869
Click to expand...
Yet abram was was chosen and all his descendants to keep the way of the lord, which means God planting the lords faith In them, then theres the building up of the hearts in the desert for 40 years then theres Deuteronomy 30.6, then theres there how he pulled the Israelites out of Egypt and made them believe by his mirracles and by his discipline, the list is endless

Then let's not for her the holy spirit convicts the world of sin, then there his word for unbelievers that as they read they begin to believe


To say that God does not make a person believe is just ridiculous genez,


And despite all the answers you had to you still carry on dogging irresistible grace, which really means being given a new heart genez.

Honestly is there no end to your madness
 
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.
 
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