Loss of salvation???

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studier said:
I'm happy to go back to the beginning at some point. In fact, unless I'm confusing threads, I already have somewhere via 1John3:23.
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Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....you and your household..Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

Why do you agree with this statement when debating with the calvies? But disagree with it when loss of salvation comes up?

It is NOT,......believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved IF......
 
HeIsHere said:
Can you explain how this verse supports the idea of a person being individually informed by God when they have lost their salvation?

I honestly am not seeing it.
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They will be informed when they are resurrected at the second resurrection. Possibly earlier than that, too, that I am not clear on.
 
HeIsHere said:
So if it fails based on logic, please feel free to use scripture to support this idea a person can be

unjustified,
un-regenerated
un-sanctified,
made not a new creation,
un-sealed
un-forgiven
pass from light to dark,
un-inherit eternal life
un-righteous.
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Easy. They get thrown into the lake of fire.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
They will be informed when they are resurrected at the second resurrection. Possibly earlier than that, too, that I am not clear on.
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Well I guess that is why you would view it as perilous, :( my Heavenly Father is faithful because of what the faithfulness of Christ Jesus and what He accomplished and I have received as my own.

To lose salvation one would have to have break the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Expel Him from within you.
Force the hands of Jesus open.
Force the hands of God the Father open.

THEN buy back all your sins from Christ who was tasked by the Father not to lose anyone saved.
 
Kroogz said:
1 Cor 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit(sealed with the same seal as the Son) within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
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If anyone corrupts the temple of God, him shall God corrupt; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17
 
HeIsHere said:
Well I guess that is why you would view it as perilous, :( my Heavenly Father is faithful because of what the faithfulness of Christ Jesus and what He accomplished and I have received as my own.

To lose salvation one would have to have break the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Expel Him from within you.
Force the hands of Jesus open.
Force the hands of God the Father open.

THEN buy back all your sins from Christ who was tasked by the Father not to lose anyone saved.
Click to expand...

All Jesus has to do is expel them from his presence. They will still be in God, but they will be in his wrath, not his mercy
 
HeIsHere said:
So if it fails based on logic, please feel free to use scripture to support this idea a person can be

unjustified,
un-regenerated
un-sanctified,
made not a new creation,
un-sealed
un-forgiven
pass from light to dark,
un-inherit eternal life
un-righteous.

Or if you have a post already available. Thank you.
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I've thrown out all my canned notes and work and am happy to look at any Scripture, again, slowly and methodically to see what it says and does not say - no arguments from silence for either side, no premature proof-texting, no general statements re: any points of view, just simple, focused, looks at Scripture.

I've also set aside the @Musicmaster false dichotomy and entered a 3rd view of responsive, cooperative, obedient faith which words provide indication that God initiates, leads, guides, disciplines, teaches, trains, etc., His children and expects and requires and provides ability for us to respond, cooperate, obey/believe and is the one who sovereignly determines what is work that He will reward and compensate and bless for. I also see these 4 words actively being involved in our initial coming to Christ and simply continuing from there in our growth as He directs.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
If anyone corrupts the temple of God, him shall God corrupt; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17
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So start working on it.

All believers have Christ in them. You are corrupting their temple and yours by telling them that Christ "might" leave them.
 
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studier said:
I've thrown out all my canned notes and work and am happy to look at any Scripture, again, slowly and methodically to see what it says and does not say - no arguments from silence for either side, no premature proof-texting, no general statements re: any points of view, just simple, focused, looks at Scripture.

I've also set aside the @Musicmaster false dichotomy and entered a 3rd view of responsive, cooperative, obedient faith which words provide indication that God initiates, leads, guides, disciplines, teaches, trains, etc., His children and expects and requires and provides ability for us to respond, cooperate, obey/believe and is the one who sovereignly determines what is work that He will reward and compensate and bless for. I also see these 4 words actively being involved in our initial coming to Christ and simply continuing from there in our growth as He directs.
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Do you agree that being born again/born from above/regeneration is a singular event in time?

We need to see if we have common ground.
 
Kroogz said:
1 Cor 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit(sealed with the same seal as the Son) within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

1 Cor 6:20
For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Col 1:27
to whom God willed to make known what the wealth of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles is, the mystery that is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


John 6:27
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”


Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

We have the seal of the Son. The Son would have to "lose" His seal for us to lose ours.


NOT going to happen.
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Appreciate the postings and I know the arguments.

See #4188.
 
Kroogz said:
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....you and your household..Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

Why do you agree with this statement when debating with the calvies? But disagree with it when loss of salvation comes up?

It is NOT,......believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved IF......
Click to expand...

No "IF" in that verse. Many more verses.
 
studier said:
Appreciate the postings and I know the arguments.

See #4188.
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I do not appreciate the idea of loss of salvation. You do not appreciate the TRUTH of eternal security.

We will never perish.

Are you one His sheep? Yes, you are. His sheep never perish.

Deduction:

You cannot call yourself one of His sheep if you think you can perish. His sheep NEVER perish.
 
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