Loss of salvation???

[lrs68]

The original language was Aramaic. The disciples spoke and thought in Aramaic, but they wrote their Aramaic thoughts and words in the Greek language, which they could also speak.

With exception to the Aramaic words that could not be translated into Greek so they were left in their Aramaic original language.

 

[studier]

Do you think when a person becomes a "reprobate" they are no longer able to come to repentance, that door is closed?

I think this would be diverting to a side issue rather than addressing why inventing a theoretical “line” for salvation loss is a valid argument. Please show from Scripture how God reveals His point of sovereign decisions in the comparable “lines” I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead have provided.

 

[lrs68]

Do you think when a person becomes a "reprobate" they are no longer able to come to repentance, that door is closed?

Romans 1 gives the idea people with a reprobate mind continue to keep getting worse as if they're in a trap that cannot be escaped.

 

[Musicmaster]

Why do you assume you can invent an imaginary “line” for salvation loss and insist others must meet it? Scripture gives assurance through God’s faithfulness and our responsive, cooperative obedient faith (1 John 3:23; 5:1), not your invented construct, which is fallacious reasoning supporting your provocative false dichotomy. These wordy narratives and made-up boundaries really don't prove your case.

I invented nothing. My question is based upon the illusory claim some have made that salvation can allegedly be lost and one cast into Hell. If you are not of that stripe, then pray tell why you seem to side with those of that belief.

MM

 

[lrs68]

I invented nothing. My question is based upon the illusory claim some have made that salvation can allegedly be lost and one cast into Hell. If you are not of that stripe, then pray tell why you seem to side with those of that belief.

MM

Can a person walk away from God even though God hasn't left them? And if they walk away from God then why wouldn't God give them their desire to be away from Him?

 

[HeIsHere]

I think this would be diverting to a side issue rather than addressing why inventing a theoretical “line” for salvation loss is a valid argument. Please show from Scripture how God reveals His point of sovereign decisions in the comparable “lines” I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead have provided.

But you brought it up. lol.

So then let us focus solely on regneration.

So we know when regeneration/re-connection to God begins begins, at the new birth.
Agreed?

So then it seems to me that the termination should be clear, I cannot see why God would leave this unclear?

 

[studier]

That straw man argument is not at all impressive. Nobody here has promoted living any way one wants. I had hoped you would remain consistent with the vein of this conversation, but diversionary tactics while claiming that others are not understanding your points made, it serves only to avoid answering the direct questions asked of you.

Do you believe one can lose his salvation and be cast into Hell?

If so, please define that line or point for us all to understand your position.

MM

The hope is that you focus on what I actually said instead of misrepresenting it, and recognize that someone who disagrees with you is not obligated to comply with your made-up constructs and challenges pertaining to God's sovereign determinations. See my parallel discussion with @HeIsHere regarding your imagined “line” argument. I've cc'd you.

 

[studier]

I invented nothing. My question is based upon the illusory claim some have made that salvation can allegedly be lost and one cast into Hell. If you are not of that stripe, then pray tell why you seem to side with those of that belief.

MM

Yes, you have invented a specific “line” pertaining to God’s sovereign determination and are demanding that others locate it for you. Show me the comparable lines in the examples I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead provided, and explain why your invented line creates a valid argument.

FWIW, I’m open to a strong case from Scripture, but at the moment, yours IMO is lacking.

 

[Kroogz]

If salvation can be lost, revoked, repudiated, withdrawn, terminated, invalidated .......then by necessity there must be a a threshold/line through which this can occur.

It is not an imaginary line, it is a line that your side of the debate needs to provide.

We always have to go back to the starting line. With the calvies and the loss of salvation crowd.

What must I do to lose my salvation?......... It will NEVER be CLEARLY defined.

Why?

Because we will NEVER perish.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So then it seems to me that the termination should be clear, I cannot see why God would leave this unclear?

Maybe because it's something that varies for each person concerning things that only the lord can see

 

[HeIsHere]

Maybe because it's something that varies for each person with things that only the lord can see

That is reasonable idea (not that I agree) but does God tell them individually?

 

[studier]

But you brought it up. lol.

So then let us focus solely on regneration.

So we know when regeneration/re-connection to God begins begins, at the new birth.
Agreed?

So then it seems to me that the termination should be clear, I cannot see why God would leave this unclear?

The current discussion is about this invented “line” being presented as a valid argument against opposing interpretation. You agreed with the same challenge. I’ll await your explanation of how the examples I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead provided either validate or refute this invented line issue. I’ll soon be setting it aside, as I see it as an imaginary construct - just rhetoric and fallacy used to support a false dichotomy that we are under no obligation to accept. It’s not a sound argument IMO.

I'd hope we can get into some Scripture, slowly and methodically.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That is reasonable idea (not that I agree) but does God tell them individually?

I would think by that time they wouldn't be listening. That's why God said to always guard our garments so that day doesn't arrive as a thief exposing our nakedness.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is the one being vigilant and guarding his garments, that he should not walk naked, and they see his indecency. Revelation 16:15​

 

[studier]

Maybe because it's something that varies for each person concerning things that only the lord can see

And maybe it is clearer than some are willing to accept or are able to explain from Scripture as error. I just added a post to your other thread about things that jeopardize salvation. This thread is off into the weeds of generalization and demands of invented constructs.

 

[studier]

I would think by that time they wouldn't be listening.

This is kind of representative of the issue, isn't it? Now let the charges of works-salvation commence again.

 

[HeIsHere]

The current discussion is about this invented “line” being presented as a valid argument against opposing interpretation. You agreed with the same challenge. I’ll await your explanation of how the examples I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead provided either validate or refute this invented line issue. I’ll soon be setting it aside, as I see it as an imaginary construct - just rhetoric and fallacy used to support a false dichotomy that we are under no obligation to accept. It’s not a sound argument IMO.

I'd hope we can get into some Scripture, slowly and methodically.

So if it fails based on logic, please feel free to use scripture to support this idea a person can be

unjustified,
un-regenerated
un-sanctified,
made not a new creation,
un-sealed
un-forgiven
pass from light to dark,
un-inherit eternal life
un-righteous.

Or if you have a post already available. Thank you.

 

[Kroogz]

Yes, you have invented a specific “line” pertaining to God’s sovereign determination and are demanding that others locate it for you. Show me the comparable lines in the examples I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead provided, and explain why your invented line creates a valid argument.

FWIW, I’m open to a strong case from Scripture, but at the moment, yours IMO is lacking.

1 Cor 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit(sealed with the same seal as the Son) within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

1 Cor 6:20
For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Col 1:27
to whom God willed to make known what the wealth of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles is, the mystery that is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


John 6:27
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”


Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

We have the seal of the Son. The Son would have to "lose" His seal for us to lose ours.


NOT going to happen.

 

[studier]

We always have to go back to the starting line. With the calvies and the loss of salvation crowd.

What must I do to lose my salvation?......... It will NEVER be CLEARLY defined.

Why?

Because we will NEVER perish.

I'm happy to go back to the beginning at some point. In fact, unless I'm confusing threads, I already have somewhere via 1John3:23.

 

[HeIsHere]

I would think by that time they wouldn't be listening. That's why God said to always guard our garments so that day doesn't arrive as a thief exposing our nakedness.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is the one being vigilant and guarding his garments, that he should not walk naked, and they see his indecency. Revelation 16:15​

Can you explain how this verse supports the idea of a person being individually informed by God when they have lost their salvation?

I honestly am not seeing it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And maybe it is clearer than some are willing to accept or are able to explain from Scripture as error. I just added a post to your other thread about things that jeopardize salvation. This thread is off into the weeds of generalization and demands of invented constructs.

A lot of hand waving going to distract from serious consideration of the many scriptures that admonish us to not get careless about and indifferent to the potentially perilous journey we are on.