Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

so because God never stopped the shooting he allowed it ?

Yep this is where your knowledge of certain things is all over the place.

More than likely rufus the shooter would have had some condemning thoughts not to go through with the shooting but he chose not to.

The reality of that is God did not allow it. Romans 2:15

All deeds are seen in the light all consciences get pricked God is everywhere.

God being omniscient can either mean he predetermines everything or he knows everything that is going to happen.

I go with he knows everything.

Which means that you too, like Genez, reject the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7. See how much you really have in common with Genez. Pretty soon I'll have both of you joined at the hip! You're both closest deists.

And, yes, God allowed two people to be killed because everyone's life is in God's hands. God alone numbers everyone's days (Dan 5:23). But at the same time, God preserved Trump's life since the number of his days did not expire at that time. God, evidently, wanted to raise up Trump as the ruler of this nation.

 

[Rufus]

for someone who hates having labels attached to her, you sure do like to attach labels to others ... could be some fallaciousness going on here ... just sayin'

.

There are at least two people here on this thread (Genez and Jordon) who fit the label of deists quite nicely. Genez has apparently walked back his "providence of God" answer to my question I asked yesterday re the Butler shooting; and Jordon thinks God just passively gazes at his cosmic crystal ball and doesn't dare intrude upon or interrupt any sovereign sinner's sacred "freewill".

I wonder how Jonah felt after God "forced" the prophet to obey His command to evangelize.

 

[BillyBob]

I guess I dont see how evil was restrained in your trump example. 2 people died one got his ear shot. The shooter died. People were tramatized ect ect. Please explain to me how restrained that evil was on that day?

That would be impossible to explain because who knows, beside God, what would have taken place had the shooter been successful in killing Trump.

 

[Jordon]

Which means that you too, like Genez, reject the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7. See how much you really have in common with Genez. Pretty soon I'll have both of you joined at the hip! You're both closest deists.

And, yes, God allowed two people to be killed because everyone's life is in God's hands. God alone numbers everyone's days (Dan 5:23). But at the same time, God preserved Trump's life since the number of his days did not expire at that time. God, evidently, wanted to raise up Trump as the ruler of this nation.

ah ok I can now see the picture, your wanting to paint. Just needed clarifying,

Thanks much the same.
God numbering peoples days is not the whole story of God determining every action Rufus.

Has The thought crossed your mind he numbered your days because he knows how long your going to live ?.

Your rejecting clear understandings of scripture to indicating in many places he does things because he knows your future and then changes your future, God knowing everything fits in to scripture more than he does determining everything.

Well I'll leave you to it Rufus, I wasn't sure completely about you, as to why I've been asking you for weeks to explain your understanding bur now I know.

Ok well you have your own mind, but you are leaning on your own understanding that's for sure

 

[Genez]

Yes...your father does quote scripture which he hates as much as you apparently do.

But since you think its infinitely better for God to assume a deistic role in his universe and just permit every sinner to exercise his depraved "freewill" in this world, how would you ever fit into the eternal New Order in which all the "robotic" saints will be "programmed" to not sin any longer? It seems to me you'd be much more spiritually comfortable in hell wherein you'd be able to stroke your ego and "freewill" forever and ever.

I guess this place is therapy for you.

 

[Jordon]

There are at least two people here on this thread (Genez and Jordon) who fit the label of deists quite nicely.

that's ridiculous deists believe that God doesn't intervene, I have maintained he does through out this thread.

Your just painting more deluded pictures here.

Obviously if you had a high attention span you would know I have been consistent with God intervening.

The phrase walking in limbo now springs to mind with you, as you you won't walk forwards just backwards

 

[Rufus]

I see some here have a really tough time seeing how God sovereignly restrained evil in Butler, PA with respect to Trump, while simultaneously permitting evil with respect to two of the spectators in the crowd. There are many here who cannot believe their life and ways are BOTH in the hands of the Living God who should be greatly feared (Dan 5:23). So here are a few biblical examples of how God directly, proactively and supernaturally worked in the lives of some biblical characters to restrain evil.

1. We have the Abimelech narrative in which God would not permit the wicked king to act wickedly with Sarah (Gen 20:1-7).
2. God forbade Balaam to curse Israel and instead "forced" him to bless Israel (Num 24:1-14).
3. God rescued Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego from Nebuchadnezzar's blazing hot furnace (Dan 3:16-30)
4. God rescued Daniel from the mouths of lions (Dan 6:10-28).
5. Jesus restrained the evil of the money changers in his Father's temple by forcefully driving them out (Jn 2: 13:17).
6. God restrains sin in his saints by disciplining them in love (Heb 12:4-11; Prov 3:11-12; Job 5:17; Ps 94:12; 1Cor 11:32; Rev 3:19).

More examples will follow later. Wouldn't want any imploding FWers heads on my conscience by force-feeding anyone here with too much truth.

 

[Rufus]

that's ridiculous deists believe that God doesn't intervene, I have maintained he does through out this thread.

Your just painting more deluded pictures here.

Obviously if you had a high attention span you would know I have been consistent with God intervening.

The phrase walking in limbo now springs to mind with you, as you you won't walk forwards just backwards

Yeah...you're just as "consistent" as you are by assigning God's omniscience (prescience) to many passages wherein omniscience isn't even in view. So, now you're going to claim that you truly do believe the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7? Do you? Will you publicly confess that you do believe in your heart of hearts what these passages teach?

 

[Jordon]

I see some here have a really tough time seeing how God sovereignly restrained evil in Butler, PA with respect to Trump, while simultaneously permitting evil with respect to two of the spectators in the crowd. There are many here who cannot believe their life and ways are BOTH in the hands of the Living God who should be greatly feared (Dan 5:23). So here are a few biblical examples of how God directly, proactively and supernaturally worked in the lives of some biblical characters to restrain evil.

1. We have the Abimelech narrative in which God would not permit the wicked king to act wickedly with Sarah (Gen 20:1-7).
2. God forbade Balaam to curse Israel and instead "forced" him to bless Israel (Num 24:1-14).
3. God rescued Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego from Nebuchadnezzar's blazing hot furnace (Dan 3:16-30)
4. God rescued Daniel from the mouths of lions (Dan 6:10-28).
5. Jesus restrained the evil of the money changers in his Father's temple by forcefully driving them out (Jn 2: 13:17).
6. God restrains sin in his saints by disciplining them in love (Heb 12:4-11; Prov 3:11-12; Job 5:17; Ps 94:12; 1Cor 11:32; Rev 3:19).

More examples will follow later. Wouldn't want any imploding FWers heads on my conscience by force-feeding anyone here with too much truth.

free will lives in the flesh, and it still lives in your flesh, and Freedom of thought to, God guides your steps, and if your one of his you listen. His sheep here and they follow,


All the scriptures you post proves that God can change the future or set the future according to his will, but it doesn't prove he determines every action you take,

 

[Rufus]

I guess this place is therapy for you.

Actually, it's a learning experience by which I can sharpen my apologist skills. What's your excuse for being here?

 

[Jackson129]

[QUOTE="Rufus, post: 5635072, member: 329516" So, now you're going to claim that you truly do believe the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7? Do you? Will you publicly confess that you do believe in your heart of hearts what these passages teach?[/QUOTE]

Are you asking for total allegiance to your doctrine now?

 

[Jordon]

Yeah...you're just as "consistent" as you are by assigning God's omniscience (prescience) to many passages wherein omniscience isn't even in view. So, now you're going to claim that you truly do believe the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7? Do you? Will you publicly confess that you do believe in your heart of hearts what these passages teach?

omnipotent means God has unlimited power to set your future by his will or change it by his will. But it doesn't necessarily mean he determines your every action, as when your saved free will still lives in the flesh and needs to be guided everyday.

Omniscience means God knowing everything possessing absolute knowledge including past present and future events

Omnipresent means God is everywhere.

Omnibenevolent mean God is all loving of having infinite Goodness, something you don't have even when your saved .

 

[Rufus]

free will lives in the flesh, and it still lives in your flesh, and Freedom of thought to, God guides your steps, and if your one of his you listen. His sheep here and they follow,


All the scriptures you post proves that God can change the future or set the future according to his will, but it doesn't prove he determines every action you take,

See, you can't publicly confess your heartfelt belief in those three passages, can you? It's just NOT in you. Just like it's not in you to publicly acknowledge and confess belief in these passages either: Prov 16:1, 9, 33; 19:21; 20:24; 21:1; Isa 46:10; Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23; Act 4:23-28; Rom 9:14-18. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day who loved to pay lip service to God and his scriptures -- but their hearts were far removed from Him and his Word.

 

[Rufus]

omnipotent means God has unlimited power to set your future by his will or change it by his will. But it doesn't necessarily mean he determines your every action, as when your saved free will still lives in the flesh and needs to be guided everyday.

Omniscience means God knowing everything possessing absolute knowledge including past present and future events

Omnipresent means God is everywhere.

Omnibenevolent mean God is all loving of having infinite Goodness, something you don't have even when your saved .

Wrong! Plus I have proved already from scripture that God's omniscience is grounded in His Prerogative, not prescience.

 

[Jordon]

See, you can't publicly confess your heartfelt belief in those three passages, can you? It's just NOT in you. Just like it's not in you to publicly acknowledge and confess belief in these passages either: Prov 16:1, 9, 33; 19:21; 20:24; 21:1; Isa 46:10; Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23; Act 4:23-28; Rom 9:14-18. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day who loved to pay lip service to God and his scriptures -- but their hearts were far removed from Him and his Word.

I've answered all acts of God knowing your future and guiding you

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="Rufus, post: 5635072, member: 329516" So, now you're going to claim that you truly do believe the truths taught in Ps 146:9; Job 5:12-13; 2Thes 2:7? Do you? Will you publicly confess that you do believe in your heart of hearts what these passages teach?

Are you asking for total allegiance to your doctrine now? [/QUOTE]

I don't believe that is what I asked Jordon. See my quote above which was limited to three passages of scripture.

What about you, sir: Do you believe what those three passages teach?

 

[Rufus]

I've answered all acts of God knowing your future and guiding you

Knowing, knowing, knowing does not = Doing, doing, doing. The reason God knows all things is because He has decreed all things, so how would He not know what He has decreed in eternity?

 

[Jordon]

Wrong! Plus I have proved already from scripture that God's omniscience is grounded in His Prerogative, not prescience.

His omniscience is his, he has absolute knowledge with it to is what I said.

Looks like you just want to make everything wrong now.

 

[Jordon]

Knowing, knowing, knowing does not = Doing, doing, doing. The reason God knows all things is because He has decreed all things, so how would He not know what He has decreed in eternity?

now your being a goof ball.

God decreed his will. He didn't determine you would sin

 

[Genez]

Actually, it's a learning experience by which I can sharpen my apologist skills. What's your excuse for being here?

Apologist not for sound doctrine.
It is for your sect that you wish to sharpen your skills in defending what your sect wants to believe is the truth.

I just received today a book from a Seven Day Adventist.
They have their apologists, too.
They load you up with misapplied Scriptures to defend what they want others to believe.

You are an old story.