Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Absolutely, but my question to the reformers is this...

Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and that he wasn't going to destroy them in forty days as he stated?

Who are the reformers? Why ask only them?

Do you think God did not know where Adam was after he sinned?

Genesis 3:9 The LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

 

[Rufus]

If you did not miss my point...
To make your own..
I might try reasoning with you.

And what would your "reasoning" be -- that God was not glorified by evil Pharaoh?

 

[Rufus]

Scripture is full of, "if you do this, then I'll do this" statements from God.

Jeremiah 18:
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

If you do this, I know what my response will be. But if you do that, I know what my response will be. Now choose.

Those are warnings that are baked into God's perfect will for his image-bearers. After all, God already knew in eternity just how men would respond to his warnings which served as means to his desired ends.

 

[Rufus]

The lord building up hearts before there saved

Psalm 147:3
New International Version
3 He heals the brokenhearted
and binds up their wounds.


Philippians 1:6
New International Version
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

So here it is @Rufus

Both passages talking about believers.

The ungodly, God-hating world is hardly "brokenhearted" before God. Anyone with that kind of godly disposition undoubtedly has the fear of the Lord in them.

Also, the pronoun "you" in Phil 1:6 is not the ungodly of the world. Paul clearly is addressing saints.

 

[Rufus]

Isaiah 46:10

New International Version



10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

Means God has a comprehensive knowledge of time and a guiding influence over future events meaning God sets our future only he can change it.


Thought provoking ideas

Mans free will lives in the flesh but God directs there steps.

Meaning God looks ahead of there steps

So, how does God merely looking ahead of man's steps (omniscience) turn into His actually directing those steps to accomplish His perfect will?

 

[Jordon]

So, how does God merely looking ahead of man's steps (omniscience) turn into His actually directing those steps to accomplish His perfect will?

Psalm 51:17

New International Version



17 My sacrifice, O God, is[a] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.

God examines any heart

 

[Jordon]

So, how does God merely looking ahead of man's steps (omniscience) turn into His actually directing those steps to accomplish His perfect will?

Well only he can change your future, and your future has already been set

 

[Jordon]

So, how does God merely looking ahead of man's steps (omniscience) turn into His actually directing those steps to accomplish His perfect will?

looking ahead God stoped the sun from moving

 

[Rufus]

Psalm 51:17

New International Version



17 My sacrifice, O God, is[a] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.

God examines any heart

So, again...how does God's examination of a heart translate into Him effectively directing that heart to accomplish his will?

Also, is it the ungodly world addressing God in Ps 51 or was it God's chosen servant David? If the latter, then wasn't David's life characterized by the Fear the Lord?

 

[Jordon]

So, again...how does God's examination of a heart translate into Him effectively directing that heart to accomplish his will?

Also, is it the ungodly world addressing God in Ps 51 or was it God's chosen servant David? If the latter, then wasn't David's life characterized by the Fear the Lord?

The same reason the Israelites made it to Psalms 30.6

 

[Rufus]

looking ahead God stoped the sun from moving

So, no command was ever issued to make the sun to stand still; God and Joshua just looked at it? (Before answering you might want to read Josh 10.)

 

[Rufus]

The same reason the Israelites made it to Psalms 30.6

What "reason", specifically, would that be? And Ps 30 is another Davidic Psalm, so how does this Psalm translate into the the entire world?

 

[Jordon]

What "reason", specifically, would that be? And Ps 30 is another Davidic Psalm, so how does this Psalm translate into the the entire world?

It translates into the outcome of God knowing everyone's hearts, as I've already discussed with you


But most of all the outcome of God knowing your heart is Deuteronomy 30.6 if you have reached that stage yet

 

[Jordon]

So, no command was ever issued to make the sun to stand still; God and Joshua just looked at it? (Before answering you might want to read Josh 10.)

you've got yourself into to many disagreements for the wrong reasons Rufus

 

[Rufus]

It translates into the outcome of God knowing everyone's hearts, as I've already discussed with you


But most of all the outcome of God knowing your heart is Deuteronomy 30.6 if you have reached that stage yet

But how does the mere omniscience of God (i.e. Him "knowing everyone's hearts") translate into Him efficaciously and proactively directing the steps of the sons of men? It seems that you don't believe such passages as Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23, etc.? You need to explain how God's mere knowing translates into Him actually DOING! Knowing and Doing are not the same things.

 

[Rufus]

It translates into the outcome of God knowing everyone's hearts, as I've already discussed with you


But most of all the outcome of God knowing your heart is Deuteronomy 30.6 if you have reached that stage yet

But Deut 30:6 has God actually DOING something for his covenant people (not to be confused with the world). Again, knowing and doing aren't the same thing.

 

[Rufus]

you've got yourself into to many disagreements for the wrong reasons Rufus

So you don't agree with Josh 10 when it says that Joshua COMMANDED the sun to stand still? Both God and Joshua certainly did more than just look at the sun or to just know that it was sitting up there in the sky. It seems to me there was some pretty powerful, effectual power actually exerted by God on behalf of Joshua and Israel. But you cannot see or acknowledge this fact in this chapter? In your world the sun stood still merely because God and Joshua "knew" it was up there?

 

[Jordon]

But how does the mere omniscience of God (i.e. Him "knowing everyone's hearts") translate into Him efficaciously and proactively directing the steps of the sons of men? It seems that you don't believe such passages as Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23, etc.? You need to explain how God's mere knowing translates into Him actually DOING! Knowing and Doing are not the same things.

it seems your disagreement is with you not me. And it seems your disagreement is with everything that doesn't suit your understanding of scripture which is of few people.

All deeds are seen in his light no one is without excuse

Which translates to God knows the heart of the unsaved

Theres no way you could have been saved if he didn't

 

[Jordon]

So you don't agree with Josh 10 when it says that Joshua COMMANDED the sun to stand still? Both God and Joshua certainly did more than just look at the sun or to just know that it was sitting up there in the sky. It seems to me there was some pretty powerful, effectual power actually exerted by God on behalf of Joshua and Israel. But you cannot see or acknowledge this fact in this chapter? In your world the sun stood still merely because God and Joshua "knew" it was up there?

God made the sun stand still

The word for God is everywhere is omnipotent

 

[Rufus]

Mr. Jordon, sir, I will ask you the same question that I asked dumbfounded CV5 yesterday about the assassination attempt on Trump in Butler, PA in which two innocent people in the crowd were killed while Trump was spared.

Was the shooter's failed attempt on Trump's life and the murder of two innocent people in the crowd due to:

1. Blind Luck or
2. Pure Chance or
3. Divine Providence?