Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[John146]

Do you not think God is sovereign? That was what your original post was about.

God is almighty. God is not sovereign according to Calvin's definition. God is not controlling and causing all things that occur. See my earlier post. Sovereign is a made-up term that when used, you are letting other Calvinists know that you're also a Calvinist.

 

[cv5]

that you believe I believe "the KJV was wrong and the KJV translators were a bunch of morons until [ I ] came along" does not mean I believe "the KJV was wrong" as you claim.





??? ... because I believe the key to understanding 2 Thes 2:10 is "received not" as opposed to what you believe is the key ("might be saved") ... you believe I make stuff up in my own mind???

you jump to faulty conclusions at the mere suggestion that "received not" is a key component in the verse.





more uncalled for belittling on your part.

have you considered 1 Thessalonians 2:13?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

they "received not" (same Greek words as 2 Thes 2:10) the Word of God as the word of men ... they received it as the Word of God which effectually works within those who believe.





are you?





do you?


I thought we had a nice discussion going ... sorry it turned to this sad state of affairs.

What does your Georgios Babiniotis have to say about déxomai ou (received not)?

.

Indeed, this action (by an act of will) to "receive" (or not receive) is loaded with salvific/soteriological import in hundreds of instances.
From John the Baptist, this shall continue all the way to this present day and beyond.

[Mat 10:14 KJV]
And whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[Mat 10:40 KJV]
He that receiveth[G1209] you receiveth[G1209] me, and he that receiveth[G1209] me receiveth[G1209] him that sent me.

[Mat 10:41 KJV]
He that receiveth[G1209] a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth[G1209] a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

[Mat 11:14 KJV]
And if ye will receive[G1209] [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

[Mar 6:11 KJV]
And whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[Mar 10:15 KJV]
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

[Luk 9:5 KJV]
And whosoever will[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

[Act 8:14 KJV]
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received[G1209] the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

[Act 11:1 KJV]
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had[G1209] also received[G1209] the word of God.

[Act 17:11 KJV]
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received[G1209] the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[Act 21:17 KJV]
And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received[G1209] us gladly.

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
But the natural man receiveth[G1209] not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[HeIsHere]

Not wrong, have you ever read the writings of Calvin?

Calvin states, “The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should: why he deemed it meet, we know not… Man therefore falls, divine providence so ordaining but he falls by his own fault.”

Calvinist theologian James White, in a debate with Hank Hannegraaf and George Bryson, was asked, “When a child is raped, is God responsible and did He decree that rape?” To which Mr. White replied: “Yes, because if not then it’s meaningless and purposeless and though God knew it was going to happen he created it without a purpose… and God is responsible for the creation of despair… If He didn‟t [decree child rape] then that rape is an element of meaningless evil that has no purpose.”

We have had the same reaction demonstrated on this thread regarding a statement made by Sproul Jr.

But they will never own the logical, final conclusion of their false view of God's sovereignty.

 

[cv5]

We have had the same reaction demonstrated on this thread regarding a statement made by Sproul Jr.

But they will never own the logical, final conclusion of their false view of God's sovereignty.

The whole thing is a synthetic unbiblical fraud IMO.
This fraud easily proven by even the humblest Bible student.

 

[Jordon]

Not wrong, have you ever read the writings of Calvin?

Calvin states, “The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should: why he deemed it meet, we know not… Man therefore falls, divine providence so ordaining but he falls by his own fault.”

Calvinist theologian James White, in a debate with Hank Hannegraaf and George Bryson, was asked, “When a child is raped, is God responsible and did He decree that rape?” To which Mr. White replied: “Yes, because if not then it’s meaningless and purposeless and though God knew it was going to happen he created it without a purpose… and God is responsible for the creation of despair… If He didn‟t [decree child rape] then that rape is an element of meaningless evil that has no purpose.”

so what your saying is anyone who hold to Calvin's teachings holds value to child rape.

You know what friend.

This comment your saying is from Sick in the head person, what's worse is you believing it without researching it. Even worse your encouraging innocent people's faiths to be put down and condemned, the lord hates innocence being shed.

I bet you haven't even researched what the Christian reformed church preach have you.

There all affiliated with Calvin's teaching and they teach God did not predestine sin.

I've researched it and that's what they preach.

Your comment is absolutely disgusting

 

[Genez]

God did not predestine sin into the world.

Sin did not have to be predestined.
No more than man will have two ears and two eyes needed to be predestined.

But rather, God decreed that there would be sin in the world.

And, as a result?
God predestined the atonement of Christ.

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed ​

from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of ​

Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was ​

revealed in these last times for your sake.​

​

1 Peter 1:18-20​

 

[HeIsHere]

Indeed, this action (by an act of will) to "receive" (or not receive) is loaded with salvific/soteriological import in hundreds of instances.
From John the Baptist, this shall continue all the way to this present day and beyond.

[Mat 10:14 KJV]
And whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[Mat 10:40 KJV]
He that receiveth[G1209] you receiveth[G1209] me, and he that receiveth[G1209] me receiveth[G1209] him that sent me.

[Mat 10:41 KJV]
He that receiveth[G1209] a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth[G1209] a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

[Mat 11:14 KJV]
And if ye will receive[G1209] [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

[Mar 6:11 KJV]
And whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[Mar 10:15 KJV]
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall[G1209] not receive[G1209] the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

[Luk 9:5 KJV]
And whosoever will[G1209] not receive[G1209] you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

[Act 8:14 KJV]
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received[G1209] the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

[Act 11:1 KJV]
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had[G1209] also received[G1209] the word of God.

[Act 17:11 KJV]
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received[G1209] the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[Act 21:17 KJV]
And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received[G1209] us gladly.

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
But the natural man receiveth[G1209] not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes Calvinist like to argue that "receive" does not require any action of the will.

Always looking for ways to get around the obvious concepts in scripture.

To receive is a more passive action, unlike "to pursue" .. however "to receive" one does decide to receive.

Unless, you are a Calvinist and the payment is just "poofed" into you because they refuse to understand the word dead in the biblical context.

 

[HeIsHere]

The whole thing is a synthetic unbiblical fraud IMO.
This fraud easily proven by even the humblest Bible student.

"Fraud' is a good description.

Their whole idea of "dead' is so very lame, how can anyone believe that.

 

[Genez]

The whole thing is a synthetic unbiblical fraud IMO.
This fraud easily proven by even the humblest Bible student.

It's Satanic. It's a con-job in logic that was released into the arena of mankind that some bite onto and swallow.

Satan is always presenting alternative points of view. And, like the woman in the Garden. Some take and eat.

Why they do it?

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number ​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

It is the same principle at work...
Some teaching just feels and seems right to their way of thinking.

There is a way that appears to be right,​

but in the end it leads to death. Proverbs 14:12​

​

It will be those who found and accepted sound doctrine who must persevere their whirlwind as it blows by their house of stone.

Later... we mow the lawn

 

[Magenta]

God is almighty. God is not sovereign according to Calvin's definition. God is not controlling and causing all things that occur. See my earlier post. Sovereign is a made-up term that when used, you are letting other Calvinists know that you're also a Calvinist.

I am not asking about Calvin's definition. Why do you keep returning to
him? I am asking you. It looks like you do not believe God is sovereign.

It does seem a rather common thing for FWers to screech about.

 

[Genez]

[
Our father lives for the living and he also lives for those who are perishing, for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whom ever shall believe shall not perish.

God our saviour desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth.

This means God lives for all people and loves all people.

God also loves people despite them having free will that lives in flesh, that is the law of sin, as cited in John 1 the will of man lives in the flesh and flesh is controlled by the law of sin, its corrupted,

And he even loves you untill you accept this truth.

That whom ever will believe will have eternal life.

And he would love for you to be free of demonic influence, but as scripture says the battle is until the end.

What this means is, your free will of the flesh is a receptor for temptation and the spiritual wicked forces of the world.

Only by his will living in you can you stand firm to all battles.

Why because he loves you.

There fixed it for why people have a hold on them to Gods will and not your free will

Why is one part of your brain in Calvinism when trying to please the Calvinists?
Then, you flip, when wanting to please those who disagree?

What you do makes one wonder if you even know what it is you are defending, but only knows what others want to hear.

 

[cv5]

Yes Calvinist like to argue that "receive" does not require any action of the will.

Always looking for ways to get around the obvious concepts in scripture.

To receive is a more passive action, unlike "to pursue" .. however "to receive" one does decide to receive.

Unless, you are a Calvinist and the payment is just "poofed" into you because they refuse to understand the word dead in the biblical context.

Yes, dechomai supposedly has a more passive tone in the Greek from what I am reading.
As I have been investigating the other Greek analogues for δέχομαι (dechomai) such as λαμβάνω (lambanō), dechomai seems to have by far the strongest connection to the soteriological element than the other candidates.

Maybe @Bible_Highlighter can chime in?

 

[cv5]

Yes Calvinist like to argue that "receive" does not require any action of the will.

Always looking for ways to get around the obvious concepts in scripture.

To receive is a more passive action, unlike "to pursue" .. however "to receive" one does decide to receive.

Unless, you are a Calvinist and the payment is just "poofed" into you because they refuse to understand the word dead in the biblical context.

As @Bible_Highlighter noted earlier....."could have should have".

[Mat 11:14 KJV]
And if ye will receive[G1209] [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

[Genez]

Yes Calvinist like to argue that "receive" does not require any action of the will.

Always looking for ways to get around the obvious concepts in scripture.

To receive is a more passive action, unlike "to pursue" .. however "to receive" one does decide to receive.

Unless, you are a Calvinist and the payment is just "poofed" into you because they refuse to understand the word dead in the biblical context.

In essence...
We argue against the unwillingness to understand.

You can either wear yourself out trying.
Or gain greater edification for your own soul by learning more than you knew before entering into the fray.

So this can be a Romans 8:28 situation. Meant for those who will continue to grow in knowledge.
While those who stare at their walls just sit there, determined not to budge in their thinking

It has become God's "resistance exercise program" for those who already know sound faith.
It is not about that you have failed to convince them.
But rather, it is that you are building spiritual muscle that God wants you to gain.

grace and peace!

 

[Jordon]

Why is one part of your brain in Calvinism when trying to please the Calvinists?
Then, you flip, when wanting to please those who disagree?

What you do makes one wonder if you even know what it is you are defending, but only knows what others want to hear.

your insane all you ever go on about is fake Calvinism. Like the others in this thread.

You and 5 others have made fake Calvinism the centre attraction of this discussion

Your totally deluded

 

[cv5]

Yes, dechomai supposedly has a more passive tone in the Greek from what I am reading.
As I have been investigating the other Greek analogues for δέχομαι (dechomai) such as λαμβάνω (lambanō), dechomai seems to have by far the strongest connection to the soteriological element than the other candidates.

Maybe @Bible_Highlighter can chime in?

Yes, it is AI generated...
Food for thought though.

**************************************************************************
Here is a concise but comprehensive list of key places in the New Testament where δέχομαι (dechomai) and λαμβάνω (lambanō) appear in relation to the act of "receiving" something spiritual (the Word, the Spirit, salvation, Christ, etc.). These two verbs are often contrasted or compared in theological discussions (especially in Reformed vs. non-Reformed soteriology and in discussions about receiving the Holy Spirit).

δέχομαι (dechomai) – “to receive, accept, welcome”

Emphasis: often implies welcoming, accepting with the mind/heart, receiving hospitably.


Key verses (not exhaustive):

• Matthew 10:14 – whoever does not receive (μὴ δέξηται) you nor listen to your words
• Matthew 11:14 – if you are willing to accept (εἰ θέλετε δέξασθαι) it, he is Elijah
• Mark 4:20 – those who hear the word and accept (παραδέχονται) it (compound form)
• Luke 8:13 – receive the word with joy (but fall away)
• John 4:45 – the Galileans received (ἐδέξαντο) him
• Acts 2:41 – those who received (ἀποδεξάμενοι) his word were baptized (~3,000)
• Acts 7:38 – Moses received (ἐδέξατο) living oracles
• Acts 8:14 – Samaria had received (δεδεγμένοι) the word of God
• Acts 17:11 – Bereans received (ἐδέξαντο) the word with all eagerness
• 1 Corinthians 2:14 – natural man does not accept (οὐ δέχεται) the things of the Spirit
• 2 Corinthians 6:1 – do not receive (δεξάμενοι) the grace of God in vain
• 2 Corinthians 11:4 – if you receive (λαμβάνετε) a different spirit… you bear with it (here it’s lambano, but often paired)
• Colossians 4:10 – receive (δέξασθε) Mark
• 1 Thessalonians 1:6 – you received (ἐδέξασθε) the word in much affliction
• 1 Thessalonians 2:13 – you received (ἐδέξασθε) the word… which you accepted (παρελάβετε, related verb)
• Hebrews 11:31 – Rahab welcomed (δεξαμένη) the spies
• James 1:21 – receive (δέξασθε) with meekness the implanted word

λαμβάνω (lambanō) – “to take, receive, obtain”

Emphasis: often more active, “to take hold of, grasp, obtain.”


Key verses (spiritual receiving):

• John 1:12 – to all who received (ἔλαβον) him… he gave the right to become children of God
• John 3:11 – you do not receive (οὐ λαμβάνετε) our testimony
• John 3:27 – a person cannot receive (λαβεῖν) anything unless given from heaven
• John 3:32 – no one receives (λαμβάνει) his testimony
• John 3:33 – whoever receives (λαβών) his testimony sets his seal…
• John 5:43 – if another comes… you will receive (λήμψεσθε) him
• John 12:48 – the one who rejects me and does not receive (μὴ λαμβάνων) my words
• John 13:20 – whoever receives (λαμβάνει) the one I send receives me
• John 14:17 – the world cannot receive (λαβεῖν) the Spirit because it neither sees him nor knows him
• John 20:22 – he breathed on them and said, “Receive (λάβετε) the Holy Spirit”
• Acts 1:8 – you will receive (λήμψεσθε) power when the Holy Spirit has come
• Acts 2:38 – repent… and you will receive (λήμψεσθε) the gift of the Holy Spirit
• Acts 8:15, 17 – they received (ἐλάμβανον) the Holy Spirit (Samaritans)
• Acts 10:43 – everyone who believes in him receives (λαμβάνει) forgiveness
• Acts 10:47 – they have received (ἔλαβον) the Holy Spirit just as we have (Cornelius’ household)
• Acts 19:2 – did you receive (ἐλάβετε) the Holy Spirit when you believed?
• 1 Corinthians 2:12 – we have received (ἐλάβομεν) the Spirit who is from God
• Galatians 3:2 – did you receive (ἐλάβετε) the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
• Galatians 3:14 – that we might receive (λάβωμεν) the promise of the Spirit through faith
• Philippians 3:12 – to take hold (λαβών) of that for which Christ took hold of me

Quick theological summary often discussed

• dechomai → more frequently used for receiving the Word or the message with the heart/mind (welcome, accept).
• lambano → more frequently used for receiving the Holy Spirit or spiritual gifts/power (take, obtain, experience).

This distinction is not absolute (there is overlap and contextual nuance), but it is observable and is the basis of many sermons and debates (e.g., “Did the Samaritans receive the Spirit in Acts 8:14–17?” — they “received the word” (dechomai-related), but later “received the Spirit” when hands were laid (lambano)).

 

[Genez]

your insane all you ever go on about is fake Calvinism. Like the others in this thread.

You and 5 others have made fake Calvinism the centre attraction of this discussion

Your totally deluded

Is that the only defense you have?
Calling TULIP, fake Calvinism?

It is what it is.

 

[Magenta]

your insane all you ever go on about is fake Calvinism. Like the others in this thread.

You and 5 others have made fake Calvinism the centre attraction of this discussion

Your totally deluded

They need some pretense to try to hide the fact that they are arguing against explicitly articulated verses.

Try as they might, though, they cannot hide the fact that they contradict and deny what is written.

When they are not doing that, they rewrite Scripture.

 

[Jordon]

Is that the only defense you have?
Calling TULIP, fake Calvinism?

It is what it is.

see your totally obsessed,

i posted two nice comments to you unrelated to tulip or whatever you call Calvinism

And here we are again.

Your totally obsessed with tulip and Calvinism derangement syndrome.


You been told over and over this topic is not central to the Calvies only, but you keep on going there.

Honestly Just get on with it

I'm done

 

[Solitude]