It's not a stupid comment because you are following what rabbinic Judaism, ie, pharisaism, teaches.
Israel.
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It's not a stupid comment because you are following what rabbinic Judaism, ie, pharisaism, teaches.
Not sure that Shiloh is a person - generally means 'tranquillity' - possible a person who brings tranquillity.
But one thing seems confirmed that when Shiloh comes - that is the end of 'Judah' / Israelites etc... and can be clearly seen from;
>Jeremiah 31:36 “If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever.”
Jeremiah 26:5-6,9 - 5 To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you, both rising up early, and sending them, but ye have not hearkened;
6 Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth.
9 Why do you prophesy in the Lord’s name that this house will be like Shiloh and this city will be desolate and deserted?”
WHY
Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
The LXX doesn't even mention Shiloh
A ruler shall not fail from Judah, nor a prince from his loins, until there come the things reserved for him; and he is the hope of nations. Genesis 49:10
MT does - as do most of the bibles - so an argument can be had about translations.
LXX Brenton's
10A ruler shall not fail from Juda, nor a prince from his loins, until there come the things stored up for him; and he is the expectation of nations.
Arguably, still points to the destructions of Judah - 'things stored up for him' and Jeremiah expands on it!
Being one of God's people has always been through faith. Circumcision was but one part of the obedience that comes through faith - the first step (for a male) in obeying the whole of the law, which was required for natural Israel. Other simple examples (for all, not just males) were not committing adultery, and not murdering. The easiest demonstration that circumcision was not the be-all-and-end-all when it came to natural Israel is righteous women, who obviously couldn't be circumcised. I've given examples of old Testament saints who were around before the circumcision covenant, and Abraham, who was explicitly made righteous for believing God while yet uncircumcised.
The closest example of a non-Israelite believer I can think of was Naaman. Note that Elisha didn't say to Naaman - "Oh, before you go, you better quickly get circumcised too". He simply said "Go in peace". God doesn't save us because of our works. It's possible Naaman started to obey more of God's law later on (sanctification), but I find it hard to believe a man of God would say to an unbeliever who had just professed a wish to become a worshipper of the true God to "go in peace", if the recent unbeliever was still damned until he was circumcised.
2 Kings 5:11 - 19
But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
But he said, As the Lord liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused.
And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord.
In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing.
And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.
No, Israel was God's people, all of them. Otherwise God would be a liar for saying they were many times. It doesn't take faith to circumcise a person. Whether they were written in the book of life, or not, is another matter.
I’ve been through this before in detail - they may have been chosen for a period but it was dependant & forever / everlasting does not actually imply 'forever' as nothing is forever.
Briefly;
1) Abraham was not a Jew - Genesis 17:4 thou shalt be a father of many nations
2) the word - olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity - (cannot have Forever then have Until)
Isaiah 32: 14 For the palace will be forsaken, the busy city abandoned. The hill and the watchtower will become caves forever (‘ō-w-lām)—the delight of wild donkeys and a pasture for flocks—
15 until the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high. Then the desert will be an orchard, and the orchard will seem like a forest.
3) dependant - exodus 19:5-6 – “if you obey me fully and keep my covenant,..”
4) broken - Jeramiah 11:10 – they have turned back going after other Gods – how could they have broken my covenant
5) follow Abraham - Gen 12:3 – "I bless those who bless you" (Abraham) – can be any race, colour, area etc.
6) Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
7) Jeremiah 31:36 - "'If those ordinances depart from before me,' saith the Lord, 'then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."
They lost use of the land but never the deed. God made an unconditional promise, swore an oath. Either God keeps His promises or He doesn't, it's just that simple.
They've never had a deed. They had the right to live in the land forever as long as they obeyed the covenant. Quit listening to liars
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for you are guests and resident aliens with me. Leviticus 25:23
The Bible isn't "liars" God swore and oath, promised them the Land and He will keep His promise. Period.
The Church is Israel, because as Israel of old, they are called Israel Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
They, the Church is called The Children of Abraham or Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
The Children of God Rom 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The children of promise Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
The seed Rom 4:16
Therefore, it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 11
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
They, the Church is called The Children of Abraham or Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
The Children of God Rom 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The children of promise Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
The seed Rom 4:16
Therefore, it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 11
You don't follow the bible. You don't even know the bible. You follow pop preachers and endlessly regurgitate what they tell you
Bub you aren't about to shut me up. I know the Word and what it says. You trying to cast "shade" on my beliefs and character and mock me isn't going to keep me from sharing the truth of God's Word. It's in the Bible for anyone to read. You twisting Scripture isn't going to cut it. I have asked a dozen times how a covenant was made in the OT and not one person has yet answered it. God made an unconditional covenant, it stands today. You believe whatever baloney you want to,but I stand on God's WORD ALONE!!
Will you please stop repeating this falsehood? I addressed this directly to you, and you just ignored it and moved on like nothing happened. That's the way you work
Post the number and I'll look at it. You're not special. There are 50 people talking on the same subject. If you answered and I overlooked it, direct me to the post. Knock it off and discuss like a man and stop throwing shade like a 12yr old boy. Discuss or don't, but know if off with the childish insults. What post did you answer my question??
I'm not going to go back and look for something that you didn't have the courtesy or capacity to respond to. You'll just ignore it again. I know how you work.
I think what confuses most here are that there are 3 stages that israel will encounter before they are redeemed.
Be careful to what the prophets say , pay close attention to the wording.
It doesn't happen all at once but Gods design is in 3 stages.
Be careful to what the prophets say , pay close attention to the wording.
It doesn't happen all at once but Gods design is in 3 stages.
The land promise is the new heaven and earth 2 Pet 3:13
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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