Speaking in tongues

[Jordon]

Tongues is the initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:43-48, 11:15, 19:1-7) Whereas, the fruit of the Spirit witnesses to the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of the born again believer.

Well if you say so but what if I live in a cave

 

[Wansvic]

I believe what Scripture teaches. In contrast, you are rejecting what Scripture teaches and substituting your own thoughts.

Seed does not "bare" fruit. "Bare" means naked, unadorned, as in Adam and Eve before they ate the forbidden fruit.

Seed does not bear fruit either. The branches of mature plants bear fruit... but only if those branches are connected to the plant and the root. In terms of the fruit of the Spirit, it is only evident in a person if that person is connected to the Vine, Jesus Christ.

I don't understand the need to ridicule.

But your comments regarding what scripture reveals about seed is sure on point.

 

[Wansvic]

Well if you say so but what if I live in a cave

Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled no matter where they live.

 

[Jordon]

Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled no matter where they live.

you can hunger all day long but if the seed isn't planted you won't thirst.

 

[Wansvic]

To me it is simple to test. Take two who have the gift of interpretation, and have these two give separate interpretations of the tongue in the absence of each other. If the interpretations align, the tongue and the interpreters are legitimate. If the interpretations do not align, the interpreters are illegitimate. If the interpreters identify that the tongue is gibberish, the tongue is illegitimate. Why do Christians insist on making simple things difficult?

You err in your understanding of the operation of the spiritual gifts. Believers don't of their own accord present a message to the congregation via tongues and/or interpretation . Both are miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit of God flowing out of those of God's choosing.

 

[Dino246]

im a gardener I know different

The seed is enough it just depends where it's planted.

Without the seed you have nothing

I shake my head. You are missing the point completely because you keep changing the subject by degrees.

 

[Wansvic]

you can hunger all day long but if the seed isn't planted you won't thirst.

Jesus said those who hunger and thirst will be filled. God knows the heart of every man and will lead those who love Him to the truth.

 

[Jordon]

Jesus said those who hunger and thirst will be filled. God knows the heart of every man and will lead those who love Him to the truth.

Jesus said a lot of things m, he said those who practice truth are seen in my father's light

I believe it's called the light that came upon them.

 

[Jordon]

I shake my head. You are missing the point completely because you keep changing the subject by degrees.

Well as the saying goes if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen

 

[Dino246]

Well as the saying goes if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen

Wow. You defend your continued changing of subject matter with that?

You’re trying to mix things together where Scripture doesn’t. Seed, soil, and fruit are related concepts but they are used in different contexts to make different points.

 

[presidente]

So I went to this church that I was invited to and as of right now it is the only one that will be able to pick me up as I cannot drive or leave the nursing home I am trapped in well the worship is good but the thing is they were very adamant on trying to get me to speak in tongues they say that everyone is able to have the gift and apparently everyone there speaks in tongues but the thing is when they put me on the spot to speak in tongues I was praying hard but nothing came out but they were telling me to keep going but and that I nbeed to want it bad enough well in the end I told them I cannot do it and I want the real thing I can't force it.

They still wanted me to and they even had their hands on me and were speaking in another language but in the end I told them I am done I just cannot do it in fact all it did was drain me.

I admit I was kind of sad and discouraged as I was hoping I could speak in tongues but the thing is firstly they were all faking it I have been in front of actual tongues before and all they were doing were faking it secondly I just couldn't muster it or have it naturally flow out of me and their laying of hands had no power to it nothing at all

Well I came home and still discouraged began thinking about it and talking to God and I came to the conclusion that what they were doing was wrong. they wanted me to speak tongues on their terms not God's if I ever do speak in tongues it will be when God leads me to not when they want me to and it will come naturally and flow like a river
Another thing is that I may not have the gift period even though they say everyone can have it but when I asked them where does the bible say that anyone can have it they didn't really have an answer they just said the bible indicates that the gift is for everyone but said they would have to find the verse to support it
I am going back next sunday and they likely will try to get me to do it again but doesn't it seem off ? in fact is there any scripture at all to support their claims? as a matter of fact I am pretty sure there is a scripture that outright denies it isn't there?

I am sorry this happened to you. I have seen this a bit, social pressure or worse to try to extract speaking in tongues out of people.

Exegetically, I think this all rests on poor assumptions. Paul asks, 'Not all speak with tongues?' do they, and the response is that he isn't talking about their category of speaking in tongues. There is a better case that everyone can prophesy to be made in scripture than for speaking in tongues.

I suspect the high pressure tactics can lead to fake tongues among some self-deceived or intentionally deceived people.

God is also very generous, so I think we should be gracious also when considering other people's spiritual gifts. Paul does not warn about fake speaking in tongues, for example.

 

[Jordon]

Wow. You defend your continued changing of subject matter with that?

You’re trying to mix things together where Scripture doesn’t. Seed, soil, and fruit are related concepts but they are used in different contexts to make different points.

When I read the Bible I read it in away that's always seeing faith being a personal walk, and I never see any one person having higher authority than God, I do see a leaders being chosen to instruct people with, and I do see I should take his word to be true.

But as I've already told you many times you have been in error, and this is one of them.

The reality is you do not get possessed by another spirit forever.

The spirits comes upon you and sows a new seed in you, the seed that gives life, it's called a new heart that bares fruit.

My mind is clear in that. Theres nothing you can do to change it.

 

[Dino246]

When I read the Bible I read it in away that's always seeing faith being a personal walk, and I never see any one person having higher authority than God, I do see a leaders being chosen to instruct people with, and I do see I should take his word to be true.

But as I've already told you many times you have been in error, and this is one of them.

The reality is you do not get possessed by another spirit forever.

The spirits comes upon you and sows a new seed in you, the seed that gives life, it's called a new heart that bares fruit.

My mind is clear in that. Theres nothing you can do to change it.

Again you change the subject and demonstrate that you are resistant to learning. I will leave you to your closed mind.

 

[Jordon]

Again you change the subject and demonstrate that you are resistant to learning. I will leave you to your closed mind.

thanks let me know when you want to play with an open mind that doesn't close minds

 

[PaulThomson]

Tongues is the initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:43-48, 11:15, 19:1-7) Whereas, the fruit of the Spirit witnesses to the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of the born again believer.

Three men on a train see a few sheep in profile in a field. The first man says, " We can conclude that all sheep are white."
The second man says, " No, we can conclude only that some sheep are white."
The third says, "No, we conclude only that some sheep are white on at least one side."

What can we conclude from the instances recoreded in scripture? Only that tongues is sometimes an initial witness of the Holy Spirit filling a believer.

 

[Wansvic]

Three men on a train see a few sheep in profile in a field. The first man says, " We can conclude that all sheep are white."
The second man says, " No, we can conclude only that some sheep are white."
The third says, "No, we conclude only that some sheep are white on at least one side."

What can we conclude from the instances recoreded in scripture? Only that tongues is sometimes an initial witness of the Holy Spirit filling a believer.

The inspired word of God reveals the truth concerning every topic. The truth is always confirmed by 2-3 witnesses/scriptures. (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16, Deut. 19:15) Jesus said everyone will be judged by what is revealed in the Word.

1. Did the people in the detailed accounts speak in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:4-41, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

2. In the accounts, what percentage of the people spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:4-33,10:43-48, 19:1-7)

3. Is there anything recorded in the Word other than speaking in tongues that revealed people received the initial infilling of the Holy Spirit?

4. Are there 2-3 scriptures that reveal the Holy Spirit is not received the instant a person believes the gospel? (Luke 11:13, Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48 (Acts 11:15), 19:1-7)

5. Was there an OT prophesy about the experience at Pentecost? (Joel 2:28) If so, what was the prophecy? And what did Peter reveal about the connection between the Spirit and speaking in tongues? (Acts 2:2-4, 13-18, 29-33)

 

[Charlesiii]

You err in your understanding of the operation of the spiritual gifts. Believers don't of their own accord present a message to the congregation via tongues and/or interpretation . Both are miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit of God flowing out of those of God's choosing.

You err in your assumption that anyone who claims to speak in a tongue or interpretation or prophesy does so via the Holy Spirit, when scripture warns us of many false prophets and teachers, and instructs us to test the claims. Use the gift of discernment to first differentiate those with real spiritual gifts from the charlatans. And all I have ever come across in "tongue-speaking" churches are charlatans, so I am aware there are a great many.

 

[Charlesiii]

That is an interesting method but the word of God tell us in 1cor chapter 14 what to do.

The scriptural instruction implies that there is an interpreter present and that he is trustworthy, yet I have heard interpreters which I did not deem trustworthy. The method described may be used for first testing the interpreters, so if these give an interpretation of a tongue or call it out for being gobblydegook (which one would presume would happen on occasion as there are a lot of charlatans out there), one can be assured that the interpreter is not just making up words from his own mind.

The empowerment of the Holy Spirit was given so we could be a witness of the Lord Jesus Christ as Jesus said in Acts 1:8.

its that simple.

God clearly speaks against false prophets in the Old Testament, and one of their sins is blasphemy. Those who pretend to speak in tongues or interpret, when they are only babbling or speaking their own thoughts, commit the same sin. It is our duty to test those who claim to have a gift or word from God, and to ignore those who can't prove they are not liars (e.g. with the aforementioned tests I mentioned).

 

[CS1]

The scriptural instruction implies that there is an interpreter present and that he is trustworthy, yet I have heard interpreters which I did not deem trustworthy. The method described may be used for first testing the interpreters, so if these give an interpretation of a tongue or call it out for being gobblydegook (which one would presume would happen on occasion as there are a lot of charlatans out there), one can be assured that the interpreter is not just making up words from his own mind.

God clearly speaks against false prophets in the Old Testament, and one of their sins is blasphemy. Those who pretend to speak in tongues or interpret, when they are only babbling or speaking their own thoughts, commit the same sin. It is our duty to test those who claim to have a gift or word from God, and to ignore those who can't prove they are not liars (e.g. with the aforementioned tests I mentioned).

You spew condemnation of people you don't even know and lack understanding of the text in 1cor chapter 12 through 14. You make your experience (negative ones) authoritative over the word of GOD. For every bad experience you have had and error or immaturity of those who have misused the gifts of the Holy Spirit Just like the office of Pastor , does not mean they are not needed of for today.

You completely refuse to see the context presented to as to why the empowering of the Holy Spirit is necessary. Jesus told us.

Acts 1:8 power to be a witness of HIM. Paul who could have stated during the abuses in Corinthian churches TO stop speaking in tongues. He did not. Paul reinforced the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in chapter 14. BUT Paul provided how they are to be used.

You purposely refuse to acknowledge this truth. why? You are so understanding of the word of God and called o be a teacher then teach me . Show me in the word of GOD where
the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. Not by your bad experiences because I too have had them yet I have also had wonder ones too and every bad one you have many have had very godly ones. Let me know Biblically if you can.

 

[Blain]

Was Jesus' fleshly mind opposing and confusing His ability to hear what the Holy Spirit was saying to Him? If not, why would He need the gift of tongues?

The point is that Jesus is our example and if he didn't require the gift of tongues to be filled with the spirit why do we need to be? not to mention the gift of tongues has a specific purpose and that purpose is to edify and empower the body so if tongues was needed or if tongues is recieved it is for that purpose not to show that one has the spirit in them nowhere in scripture does it state that tongues is the sign of the holy ghost