Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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More Scriptures for free willers to deny, twist, contradict, rewrite, etc...

Holy-Spirit.png

It is God who establishes you in Christ. God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. We have not received the spirit of the world. God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts. If the Spirit of God lives in you, you are not controlled by the flesh, but by the Spirit. By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit.
 
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2-Peter3-15-16.png

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
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On the contrary, there is massive Scriptural support, far greater than most will admit.
Should you CHOOSE to spend the next few weeks and months hearing and synthesizing these lectures, perhaps then you will possess enough knowledge to engage in fruitful dialogue. Soundbites in the dark are hardly useful.

As you know, I have been listening to him. This guy is 1001% a teacher led by the Spirit.
 
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I do not believe it is a good thing for God to harden the heart. I provided all the uses of the word sklērynō and showed you that it is not a good thing for God to harden the heart ... nor is it a good thing for people to harden their hearts.

I love you ... but you and I are not in agreement concerning this issue.

.
it's not what you believe or I .

Its the seed of belief he plants in people's hearts.

Baring in mind about numbers where he has left his called in the wilderness for not doing what he has sown in there hearts. (The physical extrusion)

What do you think would have happend if his called people would have showed mercy after this instruction to show the unbelievers no mercy,


The physical extrusion, of the people they where fighting where living in unbelief.

They where living by there own will.

And God said to his called people from who he had placed affection in there heart, to show the people they where fighting to show them no mercy. On the bases he knows his people have effection in there hearts and his inherent mercy.

What would have happened if they had showed mercy, because in numbers, when they where excluded from the promise it was because they had not followed the lords will in them.

Deuteronomy 7:2

and when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee, thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them. Thou shalt make no covenant with them nor show mercy unto them.
 
Jordon....

I pray that someday you will understand this verse..... 1 Corinthians 13:11


grace and peace ..........
Grace and peace to you to

But your prayer was to not repent until you hear from God.

Such comments suggest you deny God in you
 
More incoherent thought from the Jordon guy.
I know what you meant all right

What you meant is I'm a child and your man.

Only my God says you make mountains out of mole hills.

Which makes you a bigger child than me 🤩
 
If someone denies free will, they immediately step into an irrational position. The most important question is always: What does the Bible teach? But when we read Scripture, we still have to use reason, logic, and rational thought to process what we’re reading.

But when someone denies free will, they are really saying everything is scripted—every thought, every belief, every conclusion. And if that is true, then the person can never justify the validity of their own belief.

Why?

Because if everything is scripted, then the only reason you believe what you believe is because you were scripted to believe it. You could be scripted to believe something entirely false, yet feel absolutely convinced it is true.

That’s not reasoning.
That’s not conviction.
That’s programming.

It’s like writing a character in a novel who sincerely believes that 2 + 2 = 5. He believes it with passion. He argues it. He’s absolutely convinced. But he’s wrong—not because he reasoned incorrectly, but because the author scripted him that way.

If you deny free will, that’s your position. You can never say, “My belief is true,” because you could have been scripted to believe a lie. And when someone falls back on, “Well, I believe this because I read it in the Bible,” the same problem remains—you could have been scripted to misunderstand the Bible, to misinterpret it, to believe error while being fully convinced it is truth.

Deny free will, and you destroy the possibility of knowledge. There is no rationality left. No accountability. No meaningful belief. No moral responsibility. No persuasion. No repentance. No learning.

And here’s the irony: The statement “Don’t put human reasoning over the Bible” is itself an act of human reasoning. You cannot escape reason. God designed us to use it.

People with free will can be wrong—but they can also examine, reflect, repent, correct, and change when confronted with truth. That only makes sense if they have the ability to change their mind.

But the person who denies free will has no such ability.


They cannot choose to examine.
They cannot choose to correct.
They cannot choose to believe.
They are locked in whatever script they think God wrote for them—even if that script is error.

That position is not just unbiblical.
It is irrational.
It is self-defeating.
It makes truth unknowable and belief meaningless.
 
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On the other hand I thought perhaps he cares for his children and hes a man who can take it on the chin to help his children.

But then I thought hmmm perhaps thats wishful thinking
 
If someone denies free will, they immediately step into an irrational position. The most important question is always: What does the Bible teach? But when we read Scripture, we still have to use reason, logic, and rational thought to process what we’re reading.

But when someone denies free will, they are really saying everything is scripted—every thought, every belief, every conclusion. And if that is true, then the person can never justify the validity of their own belief.

Why?

Because if everything is scripted, then the only reason you believe what you believe is because you were scripted to believe it. You could be scripted to believe something entirely false, yet feel absolutely convinced it is true.

That’s not reasoning.
That’s not conviction.
That’s programming.

It’s like writing a character in a novel who sincerely believes that 2 + 2 = 5. He believes it with passion. He argues it. He’s absolutely convinced. But he’s wrong—not because he reasoned incorrectly, but because the author scripted him that way.

If you deny free will, that’s your position. You can never say, “My belief is true,” because you could have been scripted to believe a lie. And when someone falls back on, “Well, I believe this because I read it in the Bible,” the same problem remains—you could have been scripted to misunderstand the Bible, to misinterpret it, to believe error while being fully convinced it is truth.

Deny free will, and you destroy the possibility of knowledge. There is no rationality left. No accountability. No meaningful belief. No moral responsibility. No persuasion. No repentance. No learning.

And here’s the irony: The statement “Don’t put human reasoning over the Bible” is itself an act of human reasoning. You cannot escape reason. God designed us to use it.

People with free will can be wrong—but they can also examine, reflect, repent, correct, and change when confronted with truth. That only makes sense if they have the ability to change their mind.

But the person who denies free will has no such ability.


They cannot choose to examine.
They cannot choose to correct.
They cannot choose to believe.
They are locked in whatever script they think God wrote for them—even if that script is error.

That position is not just unbiblical.
It is irrational.
It is self-defeating.
It makes truth unknowable and belief meaningless.
err no

When someone denies free will it means they've got there flesh under control, okay and simple.

But the only will that can truly do that on a greater level than you can, is God.

The simple truth of the matter, the mind learns over time to question what is right and wrong, not out of free will but out of conscience.

The will of the flesh is what motivates the idea being true or false.

You could think 1 X 1 is 2 as a little child, and your will could never change your mind untill you get help by another will to correct you.

And it's not untill you live by that will can you be right

Plain and simple
 
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Job 41:21

King James Version



21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.


Can be seen as a refining fire that purifies or a consuming one that destroys evil

Seen in here


Revelation 11:5


Revelation 11:5

New International Version



5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm then must die.

The two witnesses, they are the described as the lamps stands and two olive trees. Standing before the lord of the earth.

The olive tree and the lamp stands representing Gods anointing and his church or messengers in Zechariah 4:2 -
Zechariah 4:14


This revelation is a duel meaning

Meaning this prophecy may have meaning to past and present and future.
 
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The word "might" does not appear in the text.

The words "might be saved" are translated from the Greek word sōzō, which means deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety). HELPS Word-studies

The key word in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 is the word "received", which is translated from the Greek word dechomai, which means to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation (1 Thes 2:13) and thoughts (Eph 6:17). [The personal element is emphasized with 1209 (déxomai) which accounts for it always being in the Greek middle voice. This stresses the high level of self-involvement (interest) involved with the "welcoming-receiving." 1209 (déxomai) occurs 59 times in the NT.] HELPS Word-studies.


In contrast, Paul wrote about the Thessalonians who received God's Word ...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And so we too constantly thank God that when you received God’s message that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human message, but as it truly is, God’s message, that is at work among you who believe..

the word "received" is translated from the Greek word paralambanō, from pará, "from close-alongside" and 2983 /lambánō, "aggressively take") – to take (receive) by showing strong personal initiative. HELPS Word-studies.

the word "accepted" is translated from the Greek word dechomai ... defined above.

Paul uses two words for receiving the Word: “receive” and “accepted.” “Received” is paralambano, which means “to receive from another,” but it is especially used in the New Testament of receiving a message or body of instruction or doctrine (cf. 1 Cor. 11:23; 15:1, 3; Gal. 1:9, 12 [2 times], Col. 2:6; 1 Thess. 2:13; 4:1; 2 Thess. 3:6). This word stresses the fact the message was delivered to them and they heard it with their own ears in a teaching environment.
...
“You accepted” is dechomai, which means to receive in the sense of “welcome.” The first word, Paralambano, means the message was delivered to them. The second word, dechomai, means they welcomed it. The first refers to “the hearing of the ear” while the second refers to “the hearing of the heart.” But just how did they welcome the message? This is stated negatively first, perhaps for emphasis, and then positively.


My understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:10 is that those who received not the love of the truth ... when truth was revealed to them, they had no desire for truth; therefore, truth was rejected.

for those who desire the truth, there is no "might" or "maybe" about it ... if the gospel is believed, salvation is the result ... not "maybe" or "might" be saved. According to Rom 1:16, for those who believe, the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. period.

.

Although there is no separate Greek word that literally means “might,” the Greek construction in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 requires English to use the word “might” because of the way Greek expresses purpose and potential outcome. The phrase “that they might be saved” corresponds to the purpose clause εἰς τὸ σωθῆναι αὐτούς (“unto the saving of them”), which contains εἰς τὸ plus the infinitive, a grammatical form that naturally conveys intended result and conditional possibility. Greek does not insert an explicit word for “might,” but the structure itself means something like “so that they might be saved,” “in order that they might be saved,” or “for them to be saved,” which English must express with an auxiliary verb. This construction functions much like an implied if clause, indicating that salvation was a real possibility if they received the love of the truth. In other words, while “might” is not a Greek word in the text, the grammar itself communicates that they could have been saved if they had welcomed the truth, which is why the KJV correctly renders the phrase as “might be saved.” (See side note below to learn more).

In addition, when I quoted 2 Thessalonians 2:10 in the King James Bible, I was relying on a translation produced by men whose linguistic brilliance remains unmatched by modern scholarship. The KJV translators possessed an extraordinary depth of Greek knowledge, far surpassing what is commonly found among modern committees that depend heavily on lexicons and digital helps. Lancelot Andrewes was fluent in fifteen known languages and conversant in six additional archaic languages. John Bois read the Greek Old Testament at the age of five and later wrote Greek with a natural ease comparable to writing English. Henry Savile edited the complete works of Chrysostom in eight volumes, demonstrating a level of Greek expertise that few scholars living today could hope to equal. Miles Smith, who wrote the KJV preface, was proficient in Greek, Hebrew, Chaldee, Syriac, and Arabic. These men did not merely study Greek; they lived in it. Their daily reading included Greek fathers, classical literature, and ancient texts spanning more than a thousand years of linguistic development. Because of this exceptional mastery, the KJV translators could recognize the precise force of grammatical constructions such as the one in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 and express them with exactness. Their scholarship explains why the KJV captures the meaning of the Greek text so faithfully in the words “might be saved.”


Side Note:

The εἰς τὸ + infinitive construction is regularly identified as a way to express purpose or intended result. For example, grammarians note that “the preposition εἰς, combined with the definite article and the infinitive, is used to express purpose or result—‘in order that,’ ‘to,’ or less commonly, ‘so that [someone] might [do something]’”

Here is a paper you can check out:

https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/chapter48-infinitives.pdf




.....
 
Although there is no separate Greek word that literally means “might,” the Greek construction in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 requires English to use the word “might” because of the way Greek expresses purpose and potential outcome. The phrase “that they might be saved” corresponds to the purpose clause εἰς τὸ σωθῆναι αὐτούς (“unto the saving of them”), which contains εἰς τὸ plus the infinitive, a grammatical form that naturally conveys intended result and conditional possibility. Greek does not insert an explicit word for “might,” but the structure itself means something like “so that they might be saved,” “in order that they might be saved,” or “for them to be saved,” which English must express with an auxiliary verb. This construction functions much like an implied if clause, indicating that salvation was a real possibility if they received the love of the truth. In other words, while “might” is not a Greek word in the text, the grammar itself communicates that they could have been saved if they had welcomed the truth, which is why the KJV correctly renders the phrase as “might be saved.” (See side note below to learn more).

In addition, when I quoted 2 Thessalonians 2:10 in the King James Bible, I was relying on a translation produced by men whose linguistic brilliance remains unmatched by modern scholarship. The KJV translators possessed an extraordinary depth of Greek knowledge, far surpassing what is commonly found among modern committees that depend heavily on lexicons and digital helps. Lancelot Andrewes was fluent in fifteen known languages and conversant in six additional archaic languages. John Bois read the Greek Old Testament at the age of five and later wrote Greek with a natural ease comparable to writing English. Henry Savile edited the complete works of Chrysostom in eight volumes, demonstrating a level of Greek expertise that few scholars living today could hope to equal. Miles Smith, who wrote the KJV preface, was proficient in Greek, Hebrew, Chaldee, Syriac, and Arabic. These men did not merely study Greek; they lived in it. Their daily reading included Greek fathers, classical literature, and ancient texts spanning more than a thousand years of linguistic development. Because of this exceptional mastery, the KJV translators could recognize the precise force of grammatical constructions such as the one in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 and express them with exactness. Their scholarship explains why the KJV captures the meaning of the Greek text so faithfully in the words “might be saved.”


Side Note:

The εἰς τὸ + infinitive construction is regularly identified as a way to express purpose or intended result. For example, grammarians note that “the preposition εἰς, combined with the definite article and the infinitive, is used to express purpose or result—‘in order that,’ ‘to,’ or less commonly, ‘so that [someone] might [do something]’”

Here is a paper you can check out:

https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/chapter48-infinitives.pdf

.....

Yes, a sufficiently accurate translation of GW is necessary in order to learn the Gospel/how to be saved from sin and hell,
and sufficiently accurate logic indicates that having GW is pointless if souls cannot learn it, exercise MFW and be saved.
 
Yes, a sufficiently accurate translation of GW is necessary in order to learn the Gospel/how to be saved from sin and hell,
and sufficiently accurate logic indicates that having GW is pointless if souls cannot learn it, exercise MFW and be saved.
a will in silence is to trust in the lord because his way says my thoughts are not yours.

However they can be so then, if you hear this message it could be he's developing a will in you for the rest of this passage, for his way to be kept in you which is the way of the lord.

My understanding is every one will receive a message that says my thoughts are not yours from God in many ways, one being through his power to save and his ability to prick every persons conscience.



Another way is this passage

May I have your interpretation of this passage

And i believe its also right to have your own thoughts to, that's moral in my book

Psalms 33:9
 
a will in silence is to trust in the lord because his way says my thoughts are not yours.

However they can be so then, if you hear this message it could be he's developing a will in you for the rest of this passage, for his way to be kept in you which is the way of the lord.

My understanding is every one will receive a message that says my thoughts are not yours from God in many ways, one being through his power to save and his ability to prick every persons conscience.

Another way is this passage
May I have your interpretation of this passage
And i believe its also right to have your own thoughts to, that's moral in my book
Psalms 33:9

Psa. 33:9 = Psa. 33:6
 
Psa. 33:9 = Psa. 33:6
How about not to be stubborn like a mule like horse who is controlled by a bit in there mouth, that needs forceful control, because of there physical unyielding.

but willingly follow Gods guidance psalms 33:9