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Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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2Pe 1:2
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This does NOT say "the written word provides all things pertaining to life and godliness".
Do you have a scripture that does say "the written word provides all things pertaining to life and godliness"?
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Blue155
Guest
" Delight thyself also in the Lord; and He SHALL GIVE THEE the desires of thine heart." Psm 37:4 To go along with, " Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet YE HAVE NOT, BECAUSE YE ASK NOT." James 4:2 It seems that God gives me the desires of my heart, then, in faith, I ask Him for those desires, being sure not to be in lust of anything or one but Him, murdering anyone with my words, not be in fights or wars with anyone. Now I stand, knowing that " God is not a man the He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do it? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?" Numbers 23:19. For me, to live a life of faith, that scripture must be settled in my heart
First, I was posting on the topic of spiritual gifts given to the church as those written in 1 Corinthians 12. It doesn't mention " divine dreams ", to my knowledge. Secondly, the Apostle Paul's letter was written to the church at Corinth on how to OPERATE in those gifts. If God can make a donkey talk to a prophet and have King Saul give prophecy, He can use anyone He sees fit, on a temporary basis.
The Holy Spirit will definitely speak to you in dreams at times.
He spoke to Joseph in Gen 37:5-10 where his family would bow to him.
He spoke to Jacob in a dream in Gen 28:10-22 when he dreamed of angels ascending and
descending a stairway to heaven
He spoke to Joseph father of Jesus in Matthew 2:13, where the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph
with instructions to flee with Jesus and Mary to Egypt
God has even spoken to nonbelievers like Abimelech, Pharoah, and Pilate’s wife all in dreams.
There is also a prophecy of the prophet Joel (Joel 2:28), quoted by the apostle Peter in Acts 2:17,
that mentions God using dreams. So God can speak through dreams if He chooses to.
Dreams are the same as prophecy in that you will know when you here the Spirit speak
to you.
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Blue155
Guest
In the New Testament writings, the gospels record the disciples working miracles. But those miracles were empowered by Jesus while He and His disciples were still living under the Old Covenant (Lk. 9:1; Mt. 10:8; Gal. 4:4). The purpose of those miracles was to cast out demons, heal and confirm the authority of Jesus. During that time, The New Covenant wasn’t in effect yet (Heb. 9:16-17; Mt. 26:28), the church wasn’t established yet (Mt. 16:18; Acts 2), the Spirit had not yet been given or poured out yet (Jn. 7:39; Acts 2:17-18).
The gospels describe events before the New Covenant began, but those books are part of the New Testament because they were written after Christ’s ministry, are inspired revelation about Him, forming part of the completed New Covenant Scriptures. Think of a history book about the 1800s written today. The book exists now, but the events it records happened in the past. Similarly, the gospels are inspired New Testament documents, but the ministry of Jesus they describe was pre-New Covenant. The gospels are New Testament writings that record Old Covenant events. Think of it like when a rocket can be fueled and ready, but it doesn’t launch until the ignition is triggered. Fueling the rocket would equal Jesus’ ministry and empowering the disciples with gifts under the Old Covenant. Everything was in place, but the New Covenant and the church wasn’t “launched” yet. Ignition/launch would equal Pentecost, the death and resurrection of Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. That’s when the New Covenant came into effect.
Once the New Covenant began, those gifts were limited to the specific, God-chosen methods He revealed. One of the methods that people were empowered with the miraculous gifts was via Spirit baptism, which was a promise to the apostles of Christ that happened on Pentecost (Lk. 24:49; Acts 1:1-8, 2:1-4). It was a promise to the chosen apostles for a special purpose (to empower them and bring remembrance—John 16:13, 14:26, Acts 2:1-4), and since there are no legitimate chosen apostles of Christ today (Acts 1:20-22), then no man today can receive Holy Spirit baptism, as that was a promise that happened to the apostles on Pentecost. Thus, that purpose has ended.
The other method was via directly by the Spirit at Cornelius’s house (similar to Holy Spirit baptism). That purpose was to show the Jews that the Gentiles could receive the gospel without having to be circumcised (Acts 10, 11, 15). Since there is no need to prove to the Jews again that God has accepted the Gentiles—because God has already confirmed that the gospel is for both Jew and Gentile—then no man today can receive the miraculous gifts of speaking in tongues directly by the Spirit as did the Gentiles. This extraordinary, foundational and historical case at Cornelius’ house (the miraculous gift of speaking in tongues) also confirmed the word..the gospel..by showing the Jews that the Gentiles could be saved, showing no distinction between the two (Acts 11:17-18, 15:8-9). I do not believe this ‘outpouring’ on the Gentiles was the promise of Spirit baptism, but rather the confirmation to the Jews and Jewish Christians that the Gentiles could receive the gospel of Christ and be saved.
The other method was apostolic laying on of hands (Acts 8, 19; Rom. 1:4– the Spirit would then give gifts —1 Cor. 12:11). Under the New Covenant, the Apostles of Christ had the ability to lay hands on people to impart spiritual gifts, as that was something during the ongoing miraculous age of the New Testament (Rom. 1:11). Since no one today qualifies for the office of an apostle (Acts 1:20-22), and since all the apostles are deceased, then it follows no one can receive the Holy Spirit in terms of the miraculous/supernatural/spiritual gifts by laying on of an apostle’s hands. That purpose has ended.
The apostles and disciples who had those gifts confirmed the word, the gospel, by the gifts (Mk. 16:20; Heb. 2:1-4). Confirming the word would also help edify the church (1 Cor. 14). Once the message was confirmed as God’s truth by miracles/supernatural gifts, the church could confidently follow the word of grace to be built up (Acts 20:32). That is edification.
Today, Christians now have the completed revelation of God’s word in the New Testament. We have full access to all that is needed to be equipped, edified, and unified in the faith (Eph. 4:11–13). When a great building is going up, workers use scaffolding for a time. But once the structure is finished, the scaffolding comes down—no one argues to leave it standing. In the same way, miraculous gifts supported the church during its “early construction”. When their purpose was fulfilled, they were no longer needed. Since Christians now have the completed revelation of God’s word in the New Testament, we have full access to all that is needed to be equipped, edified, and unified in the faith (Eph. 4:11–13). Back then, miracles were needed to help the church in her infancy stage. Today, the way the church is equipped, edified, and unified is done through what those miracles confirmed: The word of God.
The gospels describe events before the New Covenant began, but those books are part of the New Testament because they were written after Christ’s ministry, are inspired revelation about Him, forming part of the completed New Covenant Scriptures. Think of a history book about the 1800s written today. The book exists now, but the events it records happened in the past. Similarly, the gospels are inspired New Testament documents, but the ministry of Jesus they describe was pre-New Covenant. The gospels are New Testament writings that record Old Covenant events. Think of it like when a rocket can be fueled and ready, but it doesn’t launch until the ignition is triggered. Fueling the rocket would equal Jesus’ ministry and empowering the disciples with gifts under the Old Covenant. Everything was in place, but the New Covenant and the church wasn’t “launched” yet. Ignition/launch would equal Pentecost, the death and resurrection of Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. That’s when the New Covenant came into effect.
Once the New Covenant began, those gifts were limited to the specific, God-chosen methods He revealed. One of the methods that people were empowered with the miraculous gifts was via Spirit baptism, which was a promise to the apostles of Christ that happened on Pentecost (Lk. 24:49; Acts 1:1-8, 2:1-4). It was a promise to the chosen apostles for a special purpose (to empower them and bring remembrance—John 16:13, 14:26, Acts 2:1-4), and since there are no legitimate chosen apostles of Christ today (Acts 1:20-22), then no man today can receive Holy Spirit baptism, as that was a promise that happened to the apostles on Pentecost. Thus, that purpose has ended.
The other method was via directly by the Spirit at Cornelius’s house (similar to Holy Spirit baptism). That purpose was to show the Jews that the Gentiles could receive the gospel without having to be circumcised (Acts 10, 11, 15). Since there is no need to prove to the Jews again that God has accepted the Gentiles—because God has already confirmed that the gospel is for both Jew and Gentile—then no man today can receive the miraculous gifts of speaking in tongues directly by the Spirit as did the Gentiles. This extraordinary, foundational and historical case at Cornelius’ house (the miraculous gift of speaking in tongues) also confirmed the word..the gospel..by showing the Jews that the Gentiles could be saved, showing no distinction between the two (Acts 11:17-18, 15:8-9). I do not believe this ‘outpouring’ on the Gentiles was the promise of Spirit baptism, but rather the confirmation to the Jews and Jewish Christians that the Gentiles could receive the gospel of Christ and be saved.
The other method was apostolic laying on of hands (Acts 8, 19; Rom. 1:4– the Spirit would then give gifts —1 Cor. 12:11). Under the New Covenant, the Apostles of Christ had the ability to lay hands on people to impart spiritual gifts, as that was something during the ongoing miraculous age of the New Testament (Rom. 1:11). Since no one today qualifies for the office of an apostle (Acts 1:20-22), and since all the apostles are deceased, then it follows no one can receive the Holy Spirit in terms of the miraculous/supernatural/spiritual gifts by laying on of an apostle’s hands. That purpose has ended.
The apostles and disciples who had those gifts confirmed the word, the gospel, by the gifts (Mk. 16:20; Heb. 2:1-4). Confirming the word would also help edify the church (1 Cor. 14). Once the message was confirmed as God’s truth by miracles/supernatural gifts, the church could confidently follow the word of grace to be built up (Acts 20:32). That is edification.
Today, Christians now have the completed revelation of God’s word in the New Testament. We have full access to all that is needed to be equipped, edified, and unified in the faith (Eph. 4:11–13). When a great building is going up, workers use scaffolding for a time. But once the structure is finished, the scaffolding comes down—no one argues to leave it standing. In the same way, miraculous gifts supported the church during its “early construction”. When their purpose was fulfilled, they were no longer needed. Since Christians now have the completed revelation of God’s word in the New Testament, we have full access to all that is needed to be equipped, edified, and unified in the faith (Eph. 4:11–13). Back then, miracles were needed to help the church in her infancy stage. Today, the way the church is equipped, edified, and unified is done through what those miracles confirmed: The word of God.
hey name call all you like. I do not answer to you and I am not judged by you either. I will let you know that your post yet again proves you lack the ability to refute with the word of GOD and now have lost the debate by taking such a immature approach for your position of disagreement. Unlike you I did not think you ae wicked or unsaved I don't know you. But what I do know is you lack Biblical understanding. That is far game to addresses in this setting God bless. were done you and I.
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Blue155
Guest
Yes, example: Mark 16:17-18, where Jesus lists signs that will follow believers: "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover". This passage is a key scripture for many Christians who believe in the power of healing through prayer and the laying on of hands.
Have you heard of Charles and Frances Hunter's ministry, this is exactly what they did. They believed in the word of God.
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Blue155
Guest
I believe those passages are inspired of God and I believe they happened when the miraculous gifts were needed for the early church. We probably won’t agree on this, so to avoid any conflict or escalation, I will wish you a great night. Blessings
We agree on blessings and have a great night to you tooI believe those passages are inspired of God and I believe they happened when the miraculous gifts were needed for the early church. We probably won’t agree on this, so to avoid any conflict or escalation, I will wish you a great night. Blessings
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Blue155
Guest
Necessary for what?
Could you define what you mean by "necessary"?
The Apostle Thomas found it "necessary" to physically see the wounds on the body of Christ, is it necessary today?
For some, yes.
Does this mean God will make it happen?
Good questions. We know Jesus healed all who came to Him except those unbelievers. If He was walking the earth today, and we could say He is through the Holy Spirit in us, would He deny a request for healing? The healing ministry of Charles and Frances Hunter one could say was necessary in recovering people with cancer and other maladies from death. A friend of hers was going to have a mastectomy and Frances told her 'don't you dare til we pray'. When her friend, whom she posted her whole name and picture, went in for the surgury the Dr said 'Uh something's wrong here'. Her friend throught oh no, but he went on to say 'we can't find the cancer' then said 'it must be a miracle'. So was believing for her healing based on God's word 'By His stripes we are healed', necessary? To this grateful women plus the hundreds of others healed.....YES.
You are simply surmising this from events in the distant past.
Bringing up history does not prove current events.
But it does show a grasping at straws to defend a weak argument.
IOW, why are you bringing up events from thousands of years ago to prove they are happening today?
There's a famous account from Paul and Jan Crouch, founders of Trinity Broadcasting Network. They we in bed and Jan woke up with a start and then Paul did too. She said she saw in the Spirit their friend, Arthur Blessit, in grave danger of being killed. Paul said he had just had the same vision. They got on their hands and knees and prayed for him, not knowing the situation. So later when they got in touch, him being in places all over the world carrying the cross, they asked him about it. He said one night a bunch of unfriendly guys approached his van with weapons. He tried talking to them but they looked up, grabbed their gear and ran like mad. Arthur found out later they saw a group of giant men dressed in white surrounding the van and were greatly frightened. There's other similar accounts as well, if you look for them.