At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

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What I posted needed to be discussed and long or not it is out there now...this is my first time on CC and people are very screwed up in their understanding of the Scriptures...so many tortured in "my faith or lack of it" and baptism or not baptism...follow the Law or is it done away ect. Their "Salvation hinging on their faithfulness...and not God's Covenantal Faithfulness.

I want people to know what God has accomplished and gifted to all of us...that we all are Justified in Him, but we all are not Sanctified which is when we receive the Spirit New Birth (not until we respond to the Grace of God); otherwise, it's His chastisement until humbled enough to call on Him.

This is the true Gospel...not the me centric works-based doctrine of men. The Greek western view skews the Gospel morphing and distorting the Hebraic Covenantal Gospel intent...His Faithfulness as our Kinsman Redeemer!

Yes... some here are still "tortured."

This may help... Try here.

I hope you will see that you may be in very good company with some of us here.
The Greek makes things very clear which translations will leave many with"dangling participles." :)
https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

grace and peace.....
 
Yes... some here are still "tortured."

This may help... Try here.

I hope you will see that you may be in very good company with some of us here.
The Greek makes things very clear which translations will leave many with"dangling participles." :)
https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

grace and peace.....

Thanks for the link...I will check him out...you should check out HebrewGospeldotcom as well...

These scholars have argued (to varying degrees) that parts or all of the NT were first composed in Hebrew/Aramaic:

  • Dr. Joseph Shulam (79) – Messianic Jewish scholar; strongly affirms Hebrew/Aramaic primacy, especially for Matthew.
  • Dr. David Bivin (86) – Specialist in Hebrew/Aramaic background of the NT; argues that many sayings of Jesus and possibly Matthew originated in Hebrew.
  • Dr. Roy B. Blizzard (~83) – Co-authored works with Bivin; advocates Hebrew origins of the Gospels.
  • Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum (82) – Messianic Jewish theologian; supports Hebrew primacy in some NT texts.
  • Dr. Randall Buth (~70s) – Linguist and NT scholar; explores Aramaic/Hebrew underpinnings of NT traditions.
  • Dr. Tsvi Sadan (62) – Israeli scholar; affirms Hebrew roots of NT writings.
  • Dr. Eitan Bar (41) – Messianic Jewish apologist; argues for Hebrew primacy in Matthew.
  • Dr. Steven Notley (~70s) – Works on Hebrew/Aramaic background of the NT; sympathetic to Hebrew Gospel hypothesis.

Even this is grungily conceded...the NT is written by Jews to Jews (first Christian converts) and latter translated into Greek...at which point they skewed the Hebraic voice with its western Greekness "all about me and my faith, my loyalty" in a Greek contractual construct and not in the Hebraic Covenant Relational Construct with its emphasis on the Faithfulness of the Father and our Kinsman Redeemer. People like (Love) to have something to do with their salvation.
 
What I posted needed to be discussed and long or not it is out there now...this is my first time on CC and people are very screwed up in their understanding of the Scriptures...so many tortured in "my faith or lack of it" and baptism or not baptism...follow the Law or is it done away ect. Their "Salvation hinging on their faithfulness...and not God's Covenantal Faithfulness.

I want people to know what God has accomplished and gifted to all of us...that we all are Justified in Him, but we all are not Sanctified which is when we receive the Spirit New Birth (not until we respond to the Grace of God); otherwise, it's His chastisement until humbled enough to call on Him.

This is the true Gospel...not the me centric works-based doctrine of men. The Greek western view skews the Gospel morphing and distorting the Hebraic Covenantal Gospel intent...His Faithfulness as our Kinsman Redeemer!

The greater the capacity - the greater will be the ability to absorb long detailed posts.

When people are tortured by forcing their belief into having to be right?
Long posts will not help...

.........
 
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The greater the capacity - the greater will be the ability to absorb long detailed posts.

When people are tortured by forcing their belief into having to be right?
Long posts will not help...

.........
Long posts I hear you..but unfortunately sometimes required. Some people may not be able to digest it but others will want to digest it all; especially if it is something rarely explained to them...while the rest blindly grope around bouncing off every doctrinal red herring that has been espoused as Gospel since before I was around (67 now).

Rightly dividing the Truth is not torture to me and shouldn't be to anyone who cares to think for themselves and not swallow whatever their denomination tells them the Gospel is. People truly are sheep...God Loves His sheep! Better to light a match than to wait for dawn...
 
Long posts I hear you..but unfortunately sometimes required. Some people may not be able to digest it but others will want to digest it all; especially if it is something rarely explained to them...while the rest blindly grope around bouncing off every doctrinal red herring that has been espoused as Gospel since before I was around (67 now).

Rightly dividing the Truth is not torture to me and shouldn't be to anyone who cares to think for themselves and not swallow whatever their denomination tells them the Gospel is. People truly are sheep...God Loves His sheep! Better to light a match than to wait for dawn...

What's your denomination?
 
When did I call someone a liar?

One person who said spirit baptism replaced water baptism.

I gave that person many times to prove it or retract it before I called him a liar.

The other one was the guy who went to another person telling them I'm a oneness what ever that is. I called him a liar becasue he was lying about me.

I don't ever recall you calling me a liar, or me calling you one.

This is one of your quotes

I share HIS word only, letting JESUS do the talking and call people who lie about HIS word a liar
 
This is one of your quotes

I share HIS word only, letting JESUS do the talking and call people who lie about HIS word a liar

He needs to grow up....
Or, he gets kicked out of the clubhouse.

(That is the level we need to work on with the way he talks)

He needs to grow up...


He acts like he never makes mistakes in interpretation.
 
Maybe you can share how spirit baptism replaced water baptism also.

Unless you can back up what you say, have a blessed day.


Faith begins with accepting and believing God's Word.
It does not mean you initially have to understand what is said.
Faith means accepting God on His Word.


John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I
will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with
the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16 Acts 1:4




The following was said after his resurrection...

On one occasion, while he (Jesus) was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard
me speak about.

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

We need to simply make up our mind to believe what is said.
Understanding will have to follow later.

Peter made a mistake by not recalling those words of Jesus until some time passed during the beginning of the Church age.
So, Peter continued to water baptize as he always had done before the Church age sprung upon itself the world.

Then, sometime later...
(keep in mind) Peter was till commanding water baptisms to new converts.
But, then the following happened to Peter to get him to update his thinking for what changed for the church age.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized
with the Holy Spirit.’ So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord
Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?” Acts 11:15-17​

All the water baptisms that Peter had commanded in the early days of the church took place
until he finally recalled what Jesus had told him in Acts 1:4-5.

Yes! God records mistakes.
It is for our benefit for us to learn. For, we too, will make mistakes until corrected.
Not to condemn ourselves when see that even the disciples were also vulnerable.



grace and peace ..........[/QUOTE]

Morning, good job trying to prove your point.

"Faith begins with accepting and believing God's Word.
It does not mean you initially have to understand what is said.
Faith means accepting God on His Word."

Reply, I agree 100%.

"John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I
will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with
the Holy Spirit and fire. Luke 3:16 Acts 1:4"

Reply, And just after Peter told them to be baptized and they shall receive the Holy Ghost.

"The following was said after his resurrection...
On one occasion, while he (Jesus) was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard
me speak about.
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5

We need to simply make up our mind to believe what is said.
Understanding will have to follow later.

Reply, we always need to believe what HE said.

"Peter made a mistake by not recalling those words of Jesus until some time passed during the beginning of the Church age.
So, Peter continued to water baptize as he always had done before the Church age sprung upon itself the world."

Then, sometime later...
(keep in mind) Peter was till commanding water baptisms to new converts.
But, then the following happened to Peter to get him to update his thinking for what changed for the church age.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized
with the Holy Spirit.’ So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord
Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?” Acts 11:15-17

All the water baptisms that Peter had commanded in the early days of the church took place
until he finally recalled what Jesus had told him in Acts 1:4-5.

Yes! God records mistakes.
It is for our benefit for us to learn. For, we too, will make mistakes until corrected.
Not to condemn ourselves when see that even the disciples were also vulnerable."

Reply, first Peter didn't make a mistake, in Acts 10 Peter was sent to the Gentiles to show them how to be reborn.

Back drop, Jews were not allowed to talk to the Gentiles so when JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost (my opinion, it took Peter by surprise) and but he did not blink he COMMANDED them to be baptized.

If your saying that spirit baptism replaced water baptism why did Peter COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED.

Since Peter knows that being baptized in JESUS name removes our sins and JESUS is the ones who fills us with HIS spirit, Peter was sent to show them how to be reborn and he did his job.

They believed, filled with the spirit and was baptized.

Which lines up with John 3:5 and Acts 2:38.

But to add, look at Acts 19 app 20 years after the day of Pentecost Paul preaching the same message. Baptized in JESUS name and filled with the Holy Ghost.

Thinking of Acts 19, HAVE YOU BEEN FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED??

How were YOU baptized?
 
Just sharing some Ai filler.

I don't need AI, I have JESUS and HIS word.

You do know AI is generated by man right?

Men are the problem look how many different denomantions there are and ONLY ONE GOD.

Of course if AI reflects what HIS word says it would be good but since I don't use it I will never know.

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

How were you baptized?
 
I shared with you what you get with Jesus, what He gifted us by His atonement; the emphasis is on Him and His Covenantal faithfulness...not our faithfulness or belief ect...this is a Greek western linguistic construct while the Hebraic view is centered on Messiah and His Faithfulness

I know what I get with JESUS, I ask you?

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

How were you baptized?

Acts 19.
 
I know what I get with JESUS, I ask you?

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

How were you baptized?

Acts 19.

I was Baptized into Christ 60 yrs ago. And I received God's grace that He provided me at the Atonement when He justified me and began His work of Sanctification to transform me into the Image of Christ. He placed me in Christ and He has guaranteed my eventual Glorification.

I was 7 at the time and knew nothing of the Bible or God or anything...my parents had just started attending church. I was there trying to understand what was going on and so I asked my dad and he told me these people are giving their lives to Christ (God) and when He told me that I heard God speak to me to give Him my life. I knew it was God, but I was afraid to go forward so I said ok Lord I will but just between me and you here in my seat quietly...He instantly told me if I denied Him, He would deny me Mathew 10:33-35 (didn't know it at the time).

I realized I could not force my will to be done or I would be on the outside of the relationship so I went forward...as I stood up there the glory of the Lord was upon me while I wondered about all of it....then He spoke to me again and said that I would see Him come. I asked for confirmation when I was in my 20's because I wanted to know it wasn't my own imaginings He gave me Luke 2:25-26...I have believed this for 60 yrs...and as you can see things look more and more like His time is coming soon....my family tends to live well into their 90's though :)
 
This is one of your quotes

I share HIS word only, letting JESUS do the talking and call people who lie about HIS word a liar

So?

Those who put words in JESUS mouth or alter it are going down the wrong path.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The problem is men twist HIS word to suit their needs.

Is much larger that one person here.

Why so many translation's or twist on HIS word. Some of the knocks offs of the KJV bible alter HIS word and changes the meaning. Some not.

How many different denominations today? MEN, we have ONE GOD and one bible but men put their opinion in it and here we are.

Say this prayer and your saved.
Saved by faith or and grace alone.
Paul preached a different message.
Baptism is for show or a public display.

All not bible, the list goes on and on.

Problem is people just listen to the preacher and don't check what comes out of their mouth with HIS WORD.

I WAS ONE OF THEM.

We all have choices to make, follow JESUS and HIS word or men and theirs.

Check out Matthew 23:13 to 39 verse 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

What do you do when someone lies or is going down the wrong path?

Sit back and watch? Try to help them?

Some people are blind, I'm not going to try to help them so their blood on my hands.

Making false statement can be forgiven, it's not to late.
 
He needs to grow up....
Or, he gets kicked out of the clubhouse.

(That is the level we need to work on with the way he talks)

He needs to grow up...

He acts like he never makes mistakes in interpretation.

When you share HIS word only and let JESUS do the talking it's all on HIM.

Nothing to do with me, I keep me out.

I don't interpret HIS word at all it says what it says and means what it means.

Interpreting HIS word is the whole problem.

Thank you I am growing in HIS word.
 
I was Baptized into Christ 60 yrs ago. And I received God's grace that He provided me at the Atonement when He justified me and began His work of Sanctification to transform me into the Image of Christ. He placed me in Christ and He has guaranteed my eventual Glorification.

I was 7 at the time and knew nothing of the Bible or God or anything...my parents had just started attending church. I was there trying to understand what was going on and so I asked my dad and he told me these people are giving their lives to Christ (God) and when He told me that I heard God speak to me to give Him my life. I knew it was God, but I was afraid to go forward so I said ok Lord I will but just between me and you here in my seat quietly...He instantly told me if I denied Him, He would deny me Mathew 10:33-35 (didn't know it at the time).

I realized I could not force my will to be done or I would be on the outside of the relationship so I went forward...as I stood up there the glory of the Lord was upon me while I wondered about all of it....then He spoke to me again and said that I would see Him come. I asked for confirmation when I was in my 20's because I wanted to know it wasn't my own imaginings He gave me Luke 2:25-26...I have believed this for 60 yrs...and as you can see things look more and more like His time is coming soon....my family tends to live well into their 90's though :)

AMEN, GOD IS SO GOOD.

My wife and I was just talking about what we would be like if our parents had us in church when we were young.

You said you were baptized into Christ, has JESUS filled you with HIS spirit like he did in Acts 2:4? And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
 
AMEN, GOD IS SO GOOD.

My wife and I was just talking about what we would be like if our parents had us in church when we were young.

You said you were baptized into Christ, has JESUS filled you with HIS spirit like he did in Acts 2:4? And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

I have had God move powerfully in my life in miraculous ways before...I was getting divorced in 2008 and could not communicate with my wife...she was angry and vindictive and the whole time 3 months I was interceding in prayer and others too, attending church and meditating in the Word; then she called to tell me that she was going to sign the papers, move on with her life and that this would be our last conversation when God rose up in me like a lion, like a bolt of lightning...and I yelled into the phone "Lord God shut her mouth and break her heart!"

I was taken aback because I had no thought of what I had just said. It just spirited out of me in an instant....while i was saying to myself what the heck just happened my wife starts to cry and said come see me baby :) we had been almost ten years together with no children the following year my first sone was born (I was 51) and 3 years later I had another son both named in honor of the Lord.

That said I don't believe there is always a manifestation that we can perceive of course the Spirit indwells but as far as people being healed as their shadow crosses them not very often...though it can and even may happen. I just am not aware of it.
 
I have had God move powerfully in my life in miraculous ways before...I was getting divorced in 2008 and could not communicate with my wife...she was angry and vindictive and the whole time 3 months I was interceding in prayer and others too, attending church and meditating in the Word; then she called to tell me that she was going to sign the papers, move on with her life and that this would be our last conversation when God rose up in me like a lion, like a bolt of lightning...and I yelled into the phone "Lord God shut her mouth and break her heart!"

I was taken aback because I had no thought of what I had just said. It just spirited out of me in an instant....while i was saying to myself what the heck just happened my wife starts to cry and said come see me baby :) we had been almost ten years together with no children the following year my first sone was born (I was 51) and 3 years later I had another son both named in honor of the Lord.

That said I don't believe there is always a manifestation that we can perceive of course the Spirit indwells but as far as people being healed as their shadow crosses them not very often...though it can and even may happen. I just am not aware of it.

Have a BLESSED day.
 
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Are you sure?

I liar is someone who does not tell the truth.

I have never seen you not tell the truth, to me you just can't see that in Matthew 28:19 JESUS is speaking to HIS disciples, the ones who know HIM and who HE is.

We can tell that because they all baptized in JESUS name.

Something that just hasn't hit you yet, praying it will.

I have no theology, I only have HIS word it says what it says and means what it means.

I keep it simple.

Your welcome to call me a liar, just tell me what I'm lying about!!!

That is how we learn.


Matthew 28:19?
To you?
Baptism only means water.
To them?
It held several meanings!

They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:2​

Zeal without knowledge produces dead wood.

If you don't want to learn?
That dead wood will burn!

1 Corinthians 3:11-15

You have to learn to be patient and calm down.