Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Jordon ... I understand what you are saying ... I do not agree.

To me, it appears that you are saying God hardens the heart to unbelief in others. If I misunderstand, please let me know..

Man chooses to harden his own heart.
God obliges.

Hebrews 3:7-11​

​

So, as the Holy Spirit says:​

​

“Today, if you hear his voice,​

do not harden your hearts​

as you did in the rebellion,​

during the time of testing in the wilderness,​

where your ancestors tested and tried me,​

though for forty years they saw what I did.​

​

That is why I was angry with that generation;​

I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,​

and they have not known my ways.’​

So I declared on oath in my anger,​

‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”​

.

 

[Jordon]

Man chooses to harden his own heart.
God obliges.

Hebrews 3:7-11​

​

So, as the Holy Spirit says:​

​

“Today, if you hear his voice,​

do not harden your hearts​

as you did in the rebellion,​

during the time of testing in the wilderness,​

where your ancestors tested and tried me,​

though for forty years they saw what I did.​

​

That is why I was angry with that generation;​

I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,​

and they have not known my ways.’​

So I declared on oath in my anger,​

‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”​

.

your not getting it m.

The fact that they could harden there hearts is the fact Gods enabling mercy was working in them.

 

[Jordon]

Unbelievable you all get shown people waiting to filled with spirit can express the lords will

And you still want to argue


Talk about a head banger

 

[HeIsHere]

Any time you want to properly explain 2 Thessalonians 2:10, and Jonah chapter 3, I am all ears.
But we both know you will not really do that because these passages refute the Calvinist or Anti-Free Will beliefs.

....

Those are good passages for sure.

You will notice they always want to be in control of the conversation....defecting, moving the goal post, asking a series of questions and other tactics because they know there are many parts of scripture which directly refute the system.

 

[Blue155]

@Bible_Highlighter, is Jeremiah 18:7-10 good passages to show how a nation’s fate isn’t set in stone?

 

[cv5]

For those who do not believe in free will, they sure do an awful lot of posting about it lol.

Mostly hoaxing, gaslighting, and hardhearted outright denials/defiance.
Frankly, the psychology in play is no different than any ear-stopping denier in the New Testament.

 

[cv5]

@Bible_Highlighter, is Jeremiah 18:7-10 good passages to show how a nation’s fate isn’t set in stone?

Those passages are key to rightly understanding Romans 9.
A fact that was brought to the attention of the Calvinists, which they immediately denied.

 

[Blue155]

Those passages are key to rightly understanding Romans 9.
A fact that was brought to the attention of the Calvinists, which they immediately denied.

He’s talking about the potter and the clay in them.

And Paul in 2 Timothy 2 says “But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.
Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work”

 

[Magenta]

I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will never turn away from Me. from Jeremiah 32 v 40

 

[Jackson129]

We have freewill to do most everything, but spiritual things must come from God.

If you have free will to do most anything you have the freewill to not do most anything. If you have the freewill to do evil you have the freewill not to do evil. If you have the free will to deny God you have the freewill to except God. There are not 3 sides to a 2 sided coin.

 

[Jordon]

Then you contradicted yourself earlier; for you clearly said that God gives humility first THEN grace. So, which is it?

the act of mercy is Gods compassion being enabled in your heart. His first act of grace

It can then lead to you having effection like mercy, This i believe is the fathers mercy which is the sons mercy also .

It's the first act of Grace I believe his mercy put upon you is his word falling in you and is his enabling,

No contradiction mercy is the first act of his grace.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

yes I do consider, I thought you knew that already about me.

But no matter, do you think I want to get all serious with you,

After all the little things we have discussed ?

yeah, we've been through a few things Jordon. I'm not always serious, but I do take God's Word seriously.

I could go on, but i do know my heart is blue m.

"blue" to me means sad ... are you sad Jordon?

I know one thing only about greek and Hebrew and it's the thing I want to know.

When God introduced himself to moses he said his name was ,

I am that i am
Ehyeh Asher EHeyeh it can be pronounced Yahweh.

But my understanding from when from when I was younger is that from my mum, was I am that I am meant he can do what he wants, but I can't, meaning he has all the authority and I don't.

My understanding of "I am that I am" is that God has no equal ... God is eternal ... and God will be what we need Him to be ... God covers what we are lacking ...

when we are anxious ... He brings us peace
when we are fearful ... He holds us by His mighty hand
when we are sad ... He comforts our hearts
when we are troubled ... He guides us
etc., etc., etc.

have you ever studied the names of God in the OT scriptures?

here is a link to a Bible study at Blue Letter Bible

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.cfm

and, of course, this doesn't even scratch the surface ... even in eternity we will never come to the end of all God is.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

and he that exalts himself will be humbled m

And if he's not humbled what then ?

I asked if I misunderstood what you mean ...

To me, it appears that you are saying God hardens the heart to unbelief in others. If I misunderstand, please let me know.

​

Is that what you are saying? ... that God will harden the heart of the believer to unbelief in others?

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God said to his people show them no mercy Deuteronomy 7

It's ok if you can see that his people could show affection,

And then it may be better if you could see the lord has put his affection in them in Deuteronomy 7

So the lord was scared if the people he was telling to be shown no mercy where given there effection, then they would be killed.

So the lords word is alive and active and so when he said show them no mercy his word hardened there hearts to show them no mercy

I again caution you in your understanding of Deuteronomy 7.

Horay m, that mercy was all ready in there hearts to, as well as affection, because the lords word is alive and active.

And so when the lord say,

I will have mercy on you.

That means his word will fall upon you from heaven

Hirayyyyy m

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

and he that exalts himself will be humbled m

And if he's not humbled what then ?

every knee will bow ... and the sooner, the better ...

Philippians 2:2-11

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Man chooses to harden his own heart.
God obliges.

Hebrews 3:7-11​

​

So, as the Holy Spirit says:​

​

“Today, if you hear his voice,​

do not harden your hearts​

as you did in the rebellion,​

during the time of testing in the wilderness,​

where your ancestors tested and tried me,​

though for forty years they saw what I did.​

​

That is why I was angry with that generation;​

I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,​

and they have not known my ways.’​

So I declared on oath in my anger,​

‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”​

.

yep.

.

 

[Genez]

For those who do not believe in free will, they sure post an awful lot about it lol.

They feel free to do so...

 

[Jordon]

yes, not a good thing.





yes.





the word "harden" in Romans 9:18 is translated from the Greek word sklērýnō, which means sklērýnō – to harden; become inflexible (literally "dried out"); (figuratively) obstinately stubborn, resisting what God says is right [HELPS Word-studies (bold mine)].

Here are the verses in Scripture in which the word sklērýnō is used:

Acts 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

.

..

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he harden.

.

correct he can do this to any one in them and for them. He can harden there hearts or they can harden there hearts themselves, two peas in a pod.

Hebrews 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness.

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correct his enabling mercy was working in them and they could harden there heart if they wanted.

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

correct his enabling mercy was working in them and they could harden there heart if they wanted.

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

correct his enabling mercy was working in them and they could harden there heart if they wanted.

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

The hardened heart is the heart of stone ... born again believers have been given the new heart of flesh upon which God writes His Word.

I would also ask you to pray about this hardening of the heart ... I do not believe it is a good thing, Jordon.

.

correct they could harden there heart if they wanted to his enabling mercy was working in them.

 

[Jordon]

agree, Jordon. God's Word (Scripture) is a living Word ... God's Word (Scripture) is powerful ... when someone hears God's Word (Scripture), I do not believe denial of truth is the only response a person can have.

Denial of the truth of God's Word is due to a person suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. The person rejects the truth of God's Word.

.

yes a person can harden there heart

God can harden there heart

 

[BillyBob]

If you have free will to do most anything you have the freewill to not do most anything. If you have the freewill to do evil you have the freewill not to do evil. If you have the free will to deny God you have the freewill to except God. There are not 3 sides to a 2 sided coin.

I don't know how many times it must be said that there are none who are good, no not one!

However [1]God in His mercy saves those whom He wills to save, and [2]those who will come to Jesus are only those whom the Father gives to Him (see Jn. 6:37), shows that salvation is not an offer to all, but a gift given to His elect.
Salvation is not an offer made, but a gift given.
Salvation is not by works of men. Does this not stand to reason when we learn that man by nature is without God, without the Savior, and, therefore, without any hope in the world.

“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call” (Acts 2:39), not to as many as shall choose him.
It just stands to reason that we need a new nature before turning to God. . . . .