Some Calvinists could get the saved to believe they are not really saved...
It is a weird form of legalism.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Some Calvinists could get the saved to believe they are not really saved...
It is a weird form of legalism.
Your not getting it m
I'm not going to run around in circles
Here it is
In deauorimny 7 the lord say show them no mercy to his people
I'll show you the wisdom
The lord your God will harden whom he hardens
Romans 9:18
In this passage he will be saying to his believers by his sovereign will when the time comes and your confronted with unbelief, I will harden your heart to unbelief
John Piper:
“Has God predetermined every tiny detail in the universe, such as dust particles in the air and all of our besetting sins? Yes… Now the reason I believe that is because the Bible says, “The dice are thrown in the lap, and every decision is from the Lord” (Proverbs 16:33).”
“God is able without blameworthy ‘tempting’ to see to it that a person does what God ordains for him to do even if it involves evil.”
R.C. Sproul Jr.:
“God wills all things that come to pass…God desired for man to fall into sin. I am not accusing God of sinning; I am suggesting that God created sin.”
Edwin Palmer:
“All things that happen in all the world at any time and in all history–whether inorganic matter, vegetation, animal, man or angels (both good and evil ones)– come to pass because God ordained them. Even sin– the fall of the devil from heaven, the fall of Adam, and every evil thought, word, and deed in all of history… Foreordination means God’s sovereign plan, whereby He decides all that is to happen in the entire universe. Nothing in this world happens by chance. God is in back of everything. He decides and causes all things to happen that do happen. He is not sitting on the sidelines wondering and perhaps fearing what is going to happen next. No, He has foreordained everything ‘after the counsel of his will’ (Eph. 1:11): the moving of a finger, the beating of a heart, the laughter of a girl, the mistake of a typist – even sin…Although sin and unbelief are contrary to what God commands…God has included them in his sovereign decree (ordained them, caused them to certainly come to pass).
Gordan H. Clark:
*** “I wish very frankly and pointedly to assert that if a man gets drunk and shoots his family, it was the will of God that he should do it…” He goes on to assert, “Let it be unequivocally said that this view certainly makes God the cause of sin. God is the sole ultimate cause of everything. There is absolutely nothing independent of him. He alone is the eternal being. He alone is omnipotent. He alone is sovereign. Some people who do not wish to extend God’s power over evil things, and particularly over moral evils…The Bible therefore explicitly teaches that God creates sin.“
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I did answer when you first posted the question. Perhaps you will answer my question.
Well, either I missed your reply to 2 Thessalonians 2:10, and Jonah chapter 3, or you gave an answer that did not really address the actual words of these verses properly. Please provide a post # for your answer or repost it here. If not, then I will take that as admission that you truly have no intention of properly explaining these passages.
You said:
Please restate the question and I will do my best to answer (when I have time).
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Blue155
Guest
@Bible_Highlighter, I have noticed the verses Calvinists uses to support Calvinism/TULIP/Reformed does not say or teach what they say it does. Example, Job 1 and Acts 4:28
It is not rudeness to tell the truth. If a person’s post is incoherent babbling, makes no rational sense, or has extremely poor grammar, then it is not wrong to point these things out. Yes, we should strive to do so in a loving or kind way, but at the end of the day, truth is truth. If you honestly understood his post, feel free to explain it. And do you really believe, in your best judgment, that his post was perfectly clear and easily understood by others?
This is not a one-time issue with him but a consistent pattern. I say this not to be mean but because it is simply the cold, hard reality.
If I wrote, “Acah bah bah,” “Tom is in the shed wearing the color of red,” or “I like chicken fries in my brownies, so jump up and down with a frown on your face,” then I would fully expect people to correct me and tell me that I am not making any sense.
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I have noticed the same thing. Many of the verses Calvinists use simply do not say what they claim when you read them closely in the King James Bible.
Job 1 is a perfect example.
Calvinists often say this chapter teaches that God decreed everything that happened to Job, but the text does not say that. Job 1:12 says, “Behold, all that he hath is in thy power,” showing that God allowed Satan to act but did not cause the evil. Later Job 1:16 says, “The fire of God is fallen from heaven,” yet the context clearly shows it was Satan acting, not God decreeing or forcing the event. Permission is not predetermination. Nothing in Job 1 says God authored the evil. Satan is the one who “went forth from the presence of the Lord” in Job 1:12 and Job 1:7.
Acts 4:28 is similar.
Calvinists use this verse as evidence that God predetermines every human action. But the verse is specifically about the crucifixion. It says that Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles, and the people of Israel acted “to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.” This refers to a single prophesied event in God’s redemptive plan. It does not say that every sin or every human choice is predetermined. The chapter is describing how God foreknew and planned the atonement, not how God micromanages every thought or action of every person.
So yes, I agree with you. When you look at Job 1 and Acts 4:28 in their actual wording, they do not teach TULIP. The Calvinistic interpretation is reading far more into the verses than what the text actually says.
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Forget it. You are a dead-beat poster. Perhaps I can collect your evening paper and read it to you.
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Blue155
Guest
no you like to make our I'm ignorant and incoherent.
So does @HeIsHere @Genez @cv5 @Blue155
And all along ive had no answers from them. In thousands of posts
All along I haven't condemned them I've asked them.
All along they've gas lighted because they don't like the answers
All along ive said I want to discuss the lords will
All along you have discussed your will more than you have his will.
All along I have said where can you his ways his authority his will
His everything
All along you have been denying the true walk of a true blue
And if that's not enough you will not accept a request to discuss the word on the lords terms
I would say you have a problem sir
All along I have expressed the faith I've been naturally brought up in
You don't like
I don't mind i walk a path that's narrow I'm use to it
I will not condemn what I live for and what my mum lived for
So long live Gods will
@OLDBUTNEW don't let them stop you blessing the Calvies
Remember the oath we made we will knight the blessers
Remember the oath we made we will knight the blessers
Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.
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Blue155
Guest
@cv5 @HeIsHere @Bible_Highlighter i have put “the big three” (there may be a fourth lol) of RT/Calvinism on ignore. Magenta, Rufus, rogerg. It has been a more peaceful experience on here 
Yes, we already know you love to ignore, contradict, and outright deny what Scripture actually says.
Gods will breaks chains@cv5 @HeIsHere @Bible_Highlighter i have put “the big three” (there may be a fourth lol) of RT/Calvinism on ignore. Magenta, Rufus, rogerg. It has been a more peaceful experience on here
What does your will do ?
Jesus says the greatest among you serves.
Then again, you would know this if you read and believed all of Scripture.
……….
Any time you want to properly explain 2 Thessalonians 2:10, and Jonah chapter 3, I am all ears.
But we both know you will not really do that because these passages refute the Calvinist or Anti-Free Will beliefs.
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