Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Perhaps you should read John 13:34-35. Jesus gives a new commandment. Why?

Loving neighbor as self was part of the old covenant. Loving someone with the love of Christ is only possible in the new covenant as Christ lives in and through an individual...Galatians 2:20.

You speak often of righteousness. True righteousness not only includes the outward aspects of the law, but the correct inward motivation of the law. Only Jesus living in and through an individual can achieve this.

Jesus lives in and through a person when the person obeys his words

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. John 14:23-24​

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus lives in and through a person when the person obeys his words

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. John 14:23-24​

Makes an abode...a home. And when God does this, He begins to will and to do of His good pleasure. It is God working in the individual that produces the fruit. You merely exhibit it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Makes an abode...a home. And when God does this, He begins to will and to do of His good pleasure. It is God working in the individual that produces the fruit. You merely exhibit it.

Keeping God's words is something a person does willfully. It's not a mere passive display.

 

[Cameron143]

Keeping God's words is something a person does willfully. It's not a mere passive display.

Never said otherwise. Who doesn't want Jesus living in them. But God also disciplines His children. And this also works to encourage our wills. You seem to always want to amplify the actions of the individual rather than the activity of God. Why?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Never said otherwise. Who doesn't want Jesus living in them. But God also disciplines His children. And this also works to encourage our wills. You seem to always want to amplify the actions of the individual rather than the activity of God. Why?

Because of people with gnostic beliefs who de-amplify them

 

[Cameron143]

Because of people with gnostic beliefs who de-amplify them

We've already established I'm not gnostic. You said that when Jesus opened the understanding of those on the road to Emmaus that this was not gnostic. You also said that when God opened Lydia’s heart that was not gnostic. That's what I believe God does for individuals in salvation and sanctification.

What's wrong with giving God the glory for the things we do?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

We've already established I'm not gnostic.

I would say the opposite.

 

[HigherGospel]

The Holy Spirit dwelling in the spirit of a person cannot sin, this is what John is explaining in his letter,

OK so in other words if a person is born again and the devil tempts them in to becoming a child molester and they start molesting children, you think this person is still saved and does not have to forsake their sins and confess them to be forgiven and be able to go to Heaven when they die?

This sort of false doctrine is why modern "christianity" is the laughing stock of the world!

It does not contradict Jesus, Jesus was speaking to the Jews and in some places raising the bar beyond the law, so they would see their need for a Saviour.

It is important to remember the audience who is receiving the information and why.

Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom which replaced the law and the prophets so ALL of Jesus' teachings are for us today, at least those that actually love the Lord and want to spend eternity with Him as this does not apply to the tares and those who teach doctrines of demons as they are mouth pieces for satan.

In Luke 16:16 Jesus Himself tells us that the teachings of the Law of Moses and the Prophets were in effect until the time of John the Baptist, after which the message of the Kingdom of God began to be preached.

Those claiming this is not true are literally accusing Jesus Christ of being a liar and not knowing what He is talking about as they claim to know better than the Lord Himself.

According to some Christians, David should be in hell. He won't be, as he was forgiven.

Yes and did you read how he spent so much time in repentance before the Lord begging the Lord to not discard him???

The difference between David and many today is that he actually turned away from his sin and confessed it before the Lord and was genuinely SORRY FOR HIS SIN where as today people have been deceived in to believing sin is no big deal and when we sin we don't reap corruption which is mocking God (see Gal 6:7,8)

Will God forgive such people? Yes.

Only if they forsake and confess their sin - otherwise, NO they are not forgiven and will go straight to hell if they die without forsaking and confessing their sin

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It's sad to see those who claim to love the Lord, claiming to be Christians but have such disdain for what the Lord says in His Word as they outright reject the Lord and His teachings. These people will not be found in God's Kingdom as they are the tares Jesus warned about, false brethren

I think when John said those born of God do not sin because God's seed remains in them he meant a person will become unable, or let's say less likely, to sin as the seed grows within him and transforms his nature into Christ

It also means when presented with opportunity to sin a real Christian will respond with "I can't do that" as they have made their decision to not turn away from the Lord.

To him who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17) so for as person to know something is sin and they choose to go ahead and do it anyway, they are literally choosing to turn away from the Lord Jesus is rebellion and regard the Blood of Jesus as an unholy thing

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

If these people do not turn away from their sin and confess it and get serious about walking with the Lord, they will in fact go to hell regardless of having been born again

The false teachers, those speaking in behalf of the devil will come along with their security in sin false gospel and will claim it's all good we can live in sin and still be saved. This is what

 

[Cameron143]

I would say the opposite.

Which seems odd given that you characterized my beliefs as other than gnostic. What, in particular, do I believe that is gnostic?

 

[HigherGospel]

No.... I was the Chief of the chiefs of sinners... and like Paul I overcame and don't teach Christians that it's OK to continue sinning (in Paul's case, continue stoning Christians) because they'll still be saved. And I'm sure this forum is overloaded with murderers, thieves, liars and adulterers and hopefully they will repent and stop teaching Christians on your advice that it's OK to continue being murderers, thieves, liars and adulterers cause they'll still be saved. And yes... those who trespass should be restored with gentleness after they repent and those that teach that Christians can repeatedly trespass till their last breath and still be saved should be admonished.

Clearly these people are speaking in behalf of satan.

We know this because this was satan's message to Adam and Eve that ey could disobey God and not die (spiritual death, separation from God)

It is obvious that you do not understand the completed work of Christ Jesus.

The false gracers claim we are still in right standing with the Lord even if we continue tin sin. They are in error as they will find out.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Which seems odd given that you characterized my beliefs as other than gnostic. What, in particular, do I believe that is gnostic?

I'm not going to get into it again with you. You know where the list of gnostic beliefs that I posted is, that you can disavow if you are so inclined.

 

[HeIsHere]

OK so in other words if a person is born again and the devil tempts them in to becoming a child molester and they start molesting children, you think this person is still saved and does not have to forsake their sins and confess them to be forgiven and be able to go to Heaven when they die?

This sort of false doctrine is why modern "christianity" is the laughing stock of the world!

You should be very careful when you accuse that we teach grace is a license to sin.

Paul had strong words for such people like you use distorted logic.

"Romans 3:8: "And not rather, (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)

Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just."

Let us do evil that good may come!"

This distorted reasoning was coming from an attitude of unbelief.


Now, why would Paul be accused of teaching that it's O.K. to do evil?


What was Paul's main teaching and preaching?

Justification by grace alone through faith alone in the finished and all-sufficient cross-work of Christ alone; the truth of Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2nd Corinthians 5:18-21.

You are not protecting anything by teaching good behaviour for salvation, because basically that is your argument.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm not going to get into it again with you. You know where the list of gnostic beliefs that I posted is, that you can disavow if you are so inclined.

It's on you who made the claim to show its veracity. Show me what belief I hold that is gnostic. Listing a whole bunch of things does delineate what gnosticism is. It doesn't, however, prove that I believe those things. So again, what particular belief do I hold that is gnostic?

 

[HeIsHere]

Clearly these people are speaking in behalf of satan.

We know this because this was satan's message to Adam and Eve that ey could disobey God and not die (spiritual death, separation from God)





The false gracers claim we are still in right standing with the Lord even if we continue tin sin. They are in error as they will find out.

Oh yes are you the former "keepingthingsreal" "Ilive4Him" and on and on?

 

[HeIsHere]

It would seem impossible for the Albanian language not to have a word for a universal sin such as murder.
Google says there are three nouns (vrasje, njerivrasje and gjakesi) and the verb vras dike.

Can you process that?

His doctrine is sacraments and Theosis a process of deification over time.

As someone stated on another thread.... people who have accepted false doctrine cannot be reasoned with.

 

[HeIsHere]

The false gracers claim we are still in right standing with the Lord even if we continue tin sin. They are in error as they will find out.

You are not sinless and will never be while living on this planet.

And all sin is missing the mark and though you go to the extreme examples, like so many have done before you, yeah your argument

goes back to the Jews in Paul's day, and all your faulty "whataboutism" your problem is that you are NOT focused on Grace, Christ's

completed work but sin.

That is the real failure of "churchianity"

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

His doctrine is sacraments and Theosis a process of deification over time.

As someone stated on another thread.... people who have accepted false doctrine cannot be reasoned with.

I get the impression his theology is deeper than that. There's nothing wrong with sacraments as a form of worship, and isn't theosis just another word for progressive sanctification?

 

[Eli1]

His doctrine is sacraments and Theosis a process of deification over time.

As someone stated on another thread.... people who have accepted false doctrine cannot be reasoned with.

You live in the doctrine of assumptions.
You're like a lost pup looking to be adopted, that's how hard you try to fit-in.

 

[HeIsHere]

OK so in other words if a person is born again and the devil tempts them in to becoming a child molester and they start molesting children, you think this person is still saved and does not have to forsake their sins and confess them to be forgiven and be able to go to Heaven when they die?

This sort of false doctrine is why modern "christianity" is the laughing stock of the world!





Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom which replaced the law and the prophets so ALL of Jesus' teachings are for us today, at least those that actually love the Lord and want to spend eternity with Him as this does not apply to the tares and those who teach doctrines of demons as they are mouth pieces for satan.

In Luke 16:16 Jesus Himself tells us that the teachings of the Law of Moses and the Prophets were in effect until the time of John the Baptist, after which the message of the Kingdom of God began to be preached.

Those claiming this is not true are literally accusing Jesus Christ of being a liar and not knowing what He is talking about as they claim to know better than the Lord Himself.





Yes and did you read how he spent so much time in repentance before the Lord begging the Lord to not discard him???

The difference between David and many today is that he actually turned away from his sin and confessed it before the Lord and was genuinely SORRY FOR HIS SIN where as today people have been deceived in to believing sin is no big deal and when we sin we don't reap corruption which is mocking God (see Gal 6:7,8)




Only if they forsake and confess their sin - otherwise, NO they are not forgiven and will go straight to hell if they die without forsaking and confessing their sin

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It's sad to see those who claim to love the Lord, claiming to be Christians but have such disdain for what the Lord says in His Word as they outright reject the Lord and His teachings. These people will not be found in God's Kingdom as they are the tares Jesus warned about, false brethren





It also means when presented with opportunity to sin a real Christian will respond with "I can't do that" as they have made their decision to not turn away from the Lord.

To him who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17) so for as person to know something is sin and they choose to go ahead and do it anyway, they are literally choosing to turn away from the Lord Jesus is rebellion and regard the Blood of Jesus as an unholy thing

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

If these people do not turn away from their sin and confess it and get serious about walking with the Lord, they will in fact go to hell regardless of having been born again

The false teachers, those speaking in behalf of the devil will come along with their security in sin false gospel and will claim it's all good we can live in sin and still be saved. This is what

Seems like you have a friend who also thinks the cross is necessary to save >>>> but NOT sufficient.

Law keepers and workers for salvation, fail right out to the gate each and every time, and moreover they nullify the work of the cross.

 

[HeIsHere]

You live in the doctrine of assumptions.
You're like a lost pup looking to be adopted, that's how hard you try to fit-in.

Oh yes, I see how well you exegete scripture so very impressive.