Speaking in tongues

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Blue155 said:
Correct. Today’s “tongue-speaking” is jibber jabber. That’s not what speaking in tongues was in the first century.
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Scripture reveals it's not wise to talk against something you clearly do not understand.

Matt 12:36-37
"...every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Cor 14:2
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

Jude 20-23
"...beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And of some have compassion, making a difference:
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
 
HeIsHere said:
...
It is a learned behaviour.
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Those who have been given God's gift of the Holy Ghost know speaking in tongues is not a learned behavior. It is humbling to have God communicate directly with one's renewed spirit. And according to Jesus, the gift of the Holy Ghost is available to all those who ask. (Luke 11:13) And those who do ask can attest to never being sorry they did.

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance...
And others were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?...
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Therefore (Jesus) being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and HEAR. (Acts 2:4, 12-18, 33)


1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Jude 20
"But ye, beloved, build... up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"
 
Wansvic said:
Those who have been given God's gift of the Holy Ghost know speaking in tongues is not a learned behavior. It is humbling to have God communicate directly with one's renewed spirit. And according to Jesus, the gift of the Holy Ghost is available to all those who ask. (Luke 11:13) And those who do ask can attest to never being sorry they did.
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The gift of speaking in tongues was given in the early Church for the spreading of the gospel in other languages. The "tongues" actually had meaning. When confused Christians (or in certain cases, cultists who believe they are Christians) say they can speak in tongues today, there is no evidence for it. No one else can demonstrably understand the alleged "tongues".

I attended one such "church" for a time in my life, and one day (based on the "coaching" I was given by cult members to receive this "gift") I started babbling. The cult/deceived folk in attendance were all celebrating and saying I was "speaking in tongues". I clearly explained I was not, and simply babbling as per the instruction I had been given - "to loosen my tongue and say whatever came to my lips". This was something I always had been able to do, but hadn't done so in the church prayer meetings because I felt it was dishonest to misrepresent it as "speaking in tongues". But they wouldn't accept my explanation that it was simply babbling, irrespective that no one even interpreted what I said (although ideally at least 2 different interpreters would have been used to verify, to ensure that the interpreters are indeed interpreting and doing so precisely and consistently).

Although not an expert, I have not seen or been made aware of one example where churches that encourage "speaking in tongues" adequately test that those who claim to speak in tongues actually do so.
 
All I can say is a person should learn to read and understand the scriptures for what it says, not what any teacher, denomination or theology says. Jesus said the Spirit of Truth would lead into all truth, not theology or denominational dogma.
 
ResidentAlien said:
All I can say is a person should learn to read and understand the scriptures for what it says, not what any teacher, denomination or theology says. Jesus said the Spirit of Truth would lead into all truth, not theology or denominational dogma.
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We are not to lean on our own understanding, we ARE to take ALL things to Him for His guidance, including His guidance on the scripture we read, Holy Spirit guides in ALL truth.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DS2O0UWbLB4
 
Charlesiii said:
The gift of speaking in tongues was given in the early Church for the spreading of the gospel in other languages. The "tongues" actually had meaning. When confused Christians (or in certain cases, cultists who believe they are Christians) say they can speak in tongues today, there is no evidence for it. No one else can demonstrably understand the alleged "tongues".

I attended one such "church" for a time in my life, and one day (based on the "coaching" I was given by cult members to receive this "gift") I started babbling. The cult/deceived folk in attendance were all celebrating and saying I was "speaking in tongues". I clearly explained I was not, and simply babbling as per the instruction I had been given - "to loosen my tongue and say whatever came to my lips". This was something I always had been able to do, but hadn't done so in the church prayer meetings because I felt it was dishonest to misrepresent it as "speaking in tongues". But they wouldn't accept my explanation that it was simply babbling, irrespective that no one even interpreted what I said (although ideally at least 2 different interpreters would have been used to verify, to ensure that the interpreters are indeed interpreting and doing so precisely and consistently).

Although not an expert, I have not seen or been made aware of one example where churches that encourage "speaking in tongues" adequately test that those who claim to speak in tongues actually do so.
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When Paul was writing to the Corinthians he was addressing languages that were being spoken in the congregation that were from other parts of the world.

Corinth was a port city and the congregation reflected this reality of different languages being spoken during the meetings, this often led to the meetings becoming unruly. Congregants were talking out loud and others did not know what being stated.

There is also some evidence that ecstatic speech was occurring which was a thing that the Greek temple prostitutes also did.

Paul was trying to help them deal with all the issues, that is why he called for a translator so that everyone could benefit from what was being stated.

If the KJV had used "foreign languages" rather that tongues (an older word for languages) we probably would not have this mess today which I personally believe does harm to Christian credibility.
 
HeIsHere said:
When Paul was writing to the Corinthians he was addressing languages that were being spoken in the congregation that were from other parts of the world.

Corinth was a port city and the congregation reflected this reality of different languages being spoken during the meetings, this often led to the meetings becoming unruly. Congregants were talking out loud and others did not know what being stated.

There is also some evidence that ecstatic speech was occurring which was a thing that the Greek temple prostitutes also did.

Paul was trying to help them deal with all the issues, that is why he called for a translator so that everyone could benefit from what was being stated.

If the KJV had used "foreign languages" rather that tongues (an older word for languages) we probably would not have this mess today which I personally believe does harm to Christian credibility.
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Thanks for this background! I heard snippets that when the push for modern "speaking in tongues" picked up the last century or so, the early proponents sent missionaries to other countries, believing the missionaries would be granted the gift of tongues on arrival. These at least correctly understood tongues for what it is and was - the ability to speak other real languages.

When this fell through and their missionaries couldn't speak the languages of the other nations without learning them, it became more popular to reinterpret the scripture to allow languages without any (Earthly) meaning. Any old gobbledygook, so to speak.
 
Charlesiii said:
Thanks for this background! I heard snippets that when the push for modern "speaking in tongues" picked up the last century or so, the early proponents sent missionaries to other countries, believing the missionaries would be granted the gift of tongues on arrival. These at least correctly understood tongues for what it is and was - the ability to speak other real languages.

When this fell through and their missionaries couldn't speak the languages of the other nations without learning them, it became more popular to reinterpret the scripture to allow languages without any (Earthly) meaning. Any old gobbledygook, so to speak.
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Yes exactly, it was always real words, never just random syllables strung together.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Yes exactly, it was always real words, never just random syllables strung together.
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If you don't mind videos and you have a spare 5 or 10 minutes, I like this one. It's from a Lutheran perspective (I'm not Lutheran), but I think they got this pretty right. (I think the aim of the author is teaching good theology with satire? :p )


(It might be more for geeks like me who enjoy the original Star Wars plus biblical sound theology when it comes to speaking in tongues. Voice of C3PO is better than I could do, but still pretty poor! )
 
Most "Lutheranism" is a form of "RCC lite".
local "misery synod" Lutherans miss the mark and don't know the Lord, holding to an outward form denying the power, the Holy Spirit power Jesus paid the price to bring us.
 
Charlesiii said:
Thanks for this background! I heard snippets that when the push for modern "speaking in tongues" picked up the last century or so, the early proponents sent missionaries to other countries, believing the missionaries would be granted the gift of tongues on arrival. These at least correctly understood tongues for what it is and was - the ability to speak other real languages.

When this fell through and their missionaries couldn't speak the languages of the other nations without learning them, it became more popular to reinterpret the scripture to allow languages without any (Earthly) meaning. Any old gobbledygook, so to speak.
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That's true. Charles Parham, the father of Pentecostalism, sent missionaries around the world thinking they could preach the gospel in the native languages; but it failed miserably. His protege, William Seymour, was the one who popularized holy babbling at the Azusa Street revival. After Parham visited Seymour and the revival, he was appalled and later wrote it seemed to him to be of the devil.
 
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shittim said:
Most "Lutheranism" is a form of "RCC lite".
local "misery synod" Lutherans miss the mark and don't know the Lord, holding to an outward form denying the power, the Holy Spirit power Jesus paid the price to bring us.
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Probably a discussion for a separate thread, but from what I've seen of Lutherans, that's not true. Catholicism is effectively salvation by works plus Christ - the Lutherans I've listened to seem to believe in salvation by grace, through faith in Christ.

ResidentAlien said:
That's true. Charles Parham, the father of Pentecostalism, sent missionaries around the world thinking they could preach the gospel in the native languages; but it failed miserably. His protege, William Seymour, was the one who popularized holy babbling at the Azusa Street revival. After Parham visited Seymour and the revival, he was appalled and later wrote it seemed to him to be of the devil.
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Thanks for this information - I appreciate you giving the specific details. I also like your signature line - "Before the devil knows you're dead, may you be in heaven my friend"! :p
 
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Charlesiii said:
If you don't mind videos and you have a spare 5 or 10 minutes, I like this one. It's from a Lutheran perspective (I'm not Lutheran), but I think they got this pretty right. (I think the aim of the author is teaching good theology with satire? :p )


(It might be more for geeks like me who enjoy the original Star Wars plus biblical sound theology when it comes to speaking in tongues. Voice of C3PO is better than I could do, but still pretty poor! )
Click to expand...


That was fun and yes also has good teaching.

"pasta primavera" :D
 
Charlesiii said:
Probably a discussion for a separate thread, but from what I've seen of Lutherans, that's not true. Catholicism is effectively salvation by works plus Christ - the Lutherans I've listened to seem to believe in salvation by grace, through faith in Christ.

Thanks for this information - I appreciate you giving the specific details. I also like your signature line - "Before the devil knows you're dead, may you be in heaven my friend"! :p
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It was not a discussion, it was a statement on the "ism" of Lutheranism.
 
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