Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation

[HigherGospel]

The last part of Romans 8:1 is an interpolation copied from verse 4. It is not what Paul wrote.

That's what satan continues to do as he claims there are lies in God's Word.
It's in the original majority text so the Lord actually said this thru Paul.

But, for your further spiritual growth and instruction which you so desperately need, the Lord says the same thing in following verses:

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation having turned away from the Lord.

But, I understand you people's fake gospel that falsely claims we are still saved even if we turn back to living in sin.

This is hilarious that you would equate dropping something on the floor with sin. smh

It is falling short of God's absolute perfection. Also known as making mistakes

This is what God's Word speaks of when stating there is a sin (falling short) not unto death (separation from God)

1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[HigherGospel]

Here's more Truth from God's Word you should be aware of:

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's in the original majority text so the Lord actually said this thru Paul.

No he didn't. Do a little research instead of blindly following what you've been taught to believe.

 

[HigherGospel]

The righteousness required by the law is fulfilled in those who walk according to the spirit

But the doctrine you people espouse claims even if a person goes back to walking after the flesh (living in sin) they are still saved.

When new believers get saved and hear this false doctrine, they think it's OK to keep living in sin which has been taught so long now that we have a bunch of sinners ruining around claiming they are Christians!

They even teach this garbage in churches now telling everyone "we're all just sinners saved by grace"

No he didn't. Do a little research instead of blindly following what you've been taught to believe.

Actually he did and the same thing is said in other places in the New Testament.

Nice try at attempting to get me to believe Christians can live in sin and still be saved.

The Lord delivered me from that satanic doctrine long time ago.

Only those that have been deceived by the devil believe we can live in sin and God is all good with it.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

[kinda]

Hi Kinda,

I was thinking about your thread and a couple things came to mind.

I noticed that many pastors in evangelical circles, Baptist or not, tend to repeat what they've heard from other preachers they always looked up to. This has led to the generational misunderstandings that churches carry on.

There's a time that I noticed this and pleased with the Lord with an open mind to teach me from His Word the issues of salvation. I was ready to change my mind (repent) if I should. Following Paul's example after his conversion, I spent 3 years studying the subject. That motivated me to continue.

1. One thing I learned was that sin condemns us.
2. Unbelief in in The Savior condemns us. See John 3:18 KJV
3. Promising/trying/turning with all the might your flesh can muster with the strength of Samson/etc is a modern rendition of "keeping the Law."
None of that saves us.
That is a self-righteousness.
4. Faith/trust/believe in Jesus Christ is the only way to be given that gift of righteousness before God.
5. These are 4 fundamental doctrines about salvation.
These are distinguished from God's expectations to believers.
They aren't excuses for the saved to continue sinning that grace may abound. However, we can continue to walk with the Lord by confessing those sins to Him. We should grow up and not remain in the flesh as much as babes in Christ. We should grow in love as believers.

He gave me this yesterday.
Galatians 3:2,1

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

He gave me >THIS TODAY.

Have a good day.

That sounds like it's settled then.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That sounds like it's settled then.

For me it is, but others may need convincing. If they seek the Lord's Word with a hungry willing heart to know the truth on this subject I think they will find Him.

Jesus saith into him, I am The Way, The Truth and The Life: No man cometh into the Father but by Me.
John 14:6

I appreciate you asking an honest question. I've asked similar questions of pastors in the past and got different answers.
The Lord giving light to His Word is really what mattered.

 

[Gideon300]

Sorry to hear that. Condolences.





Those who think God made us to be sinners when we got born again are ignorant of what the Lord teaches in His Word concerning the new birth.

It's sad that many teach the false doctrine that Christians are to be sinners and keep living in sin after getting born again and Christians can never cease from living in sin because they claim God made each person to be a sinner and put the desire to sin in to them when they were born

Man can live free from sin as in not knowingly or willingly doing things that are sinful.

Those led by the Holy Spirit do not do sinful things, but they may occasionally make mistakes such as forgetting to do something, dropping something on the floor, etc of which are falling short of God's absolute perfection which are automatically cleansed as we see in 1 John 1:7

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL sin.

What 1 John 1:7 does NOT automatically cleanse us from is when we knowingly or willingly doing things that are sinful or if we do things God says in His Word are sinful and we claim we don't think it's sinful.

So it is quite possible to live sin free before the Lord and experience the Lord treating you as though you are sin free if we are being led by the Holy Spirit based on what God has said in His Word which IS Truth.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
New Man - Put on Christ

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laborers with Him. He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

Paul described himself as the chief of sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15. I suppose you are more spiritually advanced than Paul.

 

[Eli1]

Gideon, I agree with these two posts.

Paul described himself as the chief of sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15. I suppose you are more spiritually advanced than Paul.

You perhaps need to explain yourself better, if you are trying to make a point. Reading the title of your post and then the scripture you quoted makes it seem as if you are saying those who are born again do not sin. I happen to know that is not true. However, some new believers may not be established in the truth. Your post may cause them to doubt their salvation.

That may not be your intent. I don't know why you posted. Intentional or not, the result is the same.

But I don’t agree with this post here:

"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins Ephesians 1:7

'in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins" Colossians 1:7

The sin of all mankind was taken away by the Lamb of God who shed His precious blood 2,000 years ago to redeem us. It becomes effective when we receive Christ as Saviour. I was convicted that I was a sinner. But I hardly knew what sin was. I do remember well the sense of a great load of guilt lifting off me when I received Jesus.

What about after we are saved? Are our sins still forgiven? Suppose a believer is speeding, breaking the law, and dies in an accident. Is that person forgiven or do they go to hell?

It is clear to me that we are already forgiven. Jesus paid for all our sin; past, present and future. Tell me how many of your sins were future when Jesus died? That's easy. All of them!

Sin does not break relationship. It breaks fellowship. So we do need to confess our sins as soon as we realise that we have sinned. Jesus has already paid the price. We need our conscience to be cleansed.

".....how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!" (Hebrews 9:14)

Would you like to discuss what appears to be a contradiction to me?

 

[Gideon300]

Gideon, I agree with these two posts.





But I don’t agree with this post here:



Would you like to discuss what appears to be a contradiction to me?

For sure Eli. What part of what I said bothers you?

 

[Eli1]

For sure Eli. What part of what I said bothers you?

This part here:

What about after we are saved? Are our sins still forgiven? Suppose a believer is speeding, breaking the law, and dies in an accident. Is that person forgiven or do they go to hell?

It is clear to me that we are already forgiven. Jesus paid for all our sin; past, present and future. Tell me how many of your sins were future when Jesus died? That's easy. All of them!

So if a person after believing in God and being baptized continues to do illegal things and things that are condemned as wrong in the Bible such as killing, stealing or adultery, he still goes to Heaven?

How is this different from what the Muslims say when they blow themselves up to go to heaven with a bunch of virgins?

 

[Gideon300]

This part here:

So if a person after believing in God and being baptized continues to do illegal things and things that are condemned as wrong in the Bible such as killing, stealing or adultery, he still goes to Heaven?

How is this different from what the Muslims say when they blow themselves up to go to heaven with a bunch of virgins?

I say that it is likely that such a person was never born again in the first place. The key word is "continues". If some refuse to turn away from sin or seek to excuse themselves, I doubt that they are saved in the first place.

Having said that, a member of the Corinthian church was sleeping with his mother in law. Paul's advice was to excommunicate him until he repented, then welcome him back as a brother.

The first and foremost question is, "Is he/she born again?" If they are born again, their sins are forgiven. However, God also says that there are consequences should a believer remain in sin. Those consequences may include physical death.

The believer is already in heaven. (Ephesians 2:6) The believer is united with Christ spiritually. That unity is eternal. As I said, sin breaks fellowship. It does not break relationship. We are not born again one moment and lost the next.

The example of Muslim who blow themselves up - Islam is the religion of piece(s) - does not apply because they believe it is a righteous act. It is the act that supposedly gets them into heaven. Of course we know better.

 

[Eli1]

I say that it is likely that such a person was never born again in the first place. The key word is "continues". If some refuse to turn away from sin or seek to excuse themselves, I doubt that they are saved in the first place.

Having said that, a member of the Corinthian church was sleeping with his mother in law. Paul's advice was to excommunicate him until he repented, then welcome him back as a brother.

The first and foremost question is, "Is he/she born again?" If they are born again, their sins are forgiven. However, God also says that there are consequences should a believer remain in sin. Those consequences may include physical death.

The believer is already in heaven. (Ephesians 2:6) The believer is united with Christ spiritually. That unity is eternal. As I said, sin breaks fellowship. It does not break relationship. We are not born again one moment and lost the next.

The example of Muslim who blow themselves up - Islam is the religion of piece(s) - does not apply because they believe it is a righteous act. It is the act that supposedly gets them into heaven. Of course we know better.

Now I’m more confused than ever with your responses.
I understand the OSAS angle but in those 2 posts I quoted and in another post in this topic you’re saying that the sin continues and you even quoted Paul who said “I’m chief among sinners”.
So in one post you’re saying that sin continues but in another you’re saying that it doesn’t?
This is why I’m a bit confused.

 

[Eli1]

And as a side note Gideon your comments about Muslims made me laugh but in there you showed some Roman Catholic reflexes against “works” but actually they do it because they truly believe not because of “works”.

No one kills themselves and others and THINKS they will go to heaven unless you have some strong belief which of course in their case comes from a perversion of the interpretation of Koran.

But I’m actually more interested in what I see as contradictions in your posts if you could explain those to me please, I really don’t want to do another Salvation debate.

Since I’ve been on this forum, I’ve avoid it.

 

[kinda]

All good here, thanks.

Job and Joseph looked back upon their trials and recognized both that God was in them and the benefit of them. God delivers THROUGH the trial, not FROM the trial. Hang in there. God will meet you in the furnace.

Look, you have all that tinfoil, so you are better suited for heat tolerance, than I'am for furnace dwelling.

 

[HigherGospel]

Paul described himself as the chief of sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15.

Yes, speaking of the sin that is on his record before he got born again.

Your are not seriously claiming Paul engaged in sinful behavior after having been born again are ya???

Did you ever see where Paul said if he did not keep his body's carnal desires under control that he would be a castaway (reprobate)

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Ever see where Paul said each believer should control their body

1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour

Paul did not live in sin after having been born again, if he did then he is in hell right now and all his writings are to be ignored which is what the devil is seeking to get people to believe

 

[Cameron143]

Look, you have all that tinfoil, so you are better suited for heat tolerance, than I'am for furnace dwelling.

True, but God has an endless supply.

 

[HigherGospel]

True, but God has an endless supply.

He's saying you are going to hell, hence the "furnace dwelling" part of his comment.

 

[Cameron143]

He's saying you are going to hell, hence the "furnace dwelling" part of his comment.

Actually it's an inside joke. We're friends.

 

[HigherGospel]

Actually it's an inside joke. We're friends.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[Me_Clay]

So who is really born again here? So many spirits.....