Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Notice how none of those passages say nor implies that man is born that way or that God eternally decreed them to be in that state from birth or eternally decrees them to be in that state unconditionally. Again, you’d have to read that into the text and have to be taught that to get it from the text.

Well...God did decree DEATH (in both its forms!) in his prophecy to Adam. Apparently, you think that man wears DEATH on himself quite well, don't you? I guess Life is overrated to your way of thinking?

And you're a fine one to talk to anyone but reading assumptions into any given passage when that's exactly what you have done with Rom 8:29 that you shamelessly pervert by reading into the text things or acts of people as being what was foreknown by God. Good grief, man, remove the log that is sticking out of your own eye before pointing to any perceived or real splinters in anyone else's eye!

 

[Rufus]

There is no pride in humility, repentance and trusting in another for salvation.
If you were so secure in your "TULIP" system you would never need to resort to this type of distortion.

It really is quite sad when this insecurity is evident over and over again and yet there you be.

There is when one is trusting in the efficacy of his own "freewill". There's plenty of pride in that person; for such a person does not see himself as God sees him, i..e. helpless, weak, naked, impoverished, etc., having ZERO spiritual soundness in his body or soul.

 

[Rufus]

And no one needs to adopt Calvinism and this false notion that God creates some for salvation to answer your continual whataboutism.

The point @Kroogz is making is that God is not in the business of favoritism for salvation.

And I have proved from my two part series on Corneilius (Act 9-11) that the biblical concept of partiality (or favoritism) simply means that God doesn't favor the Jews over the Gentiles. It doesn't mean what you FWers say it does.

 

[BillyBob]

Man is but a fallen creature, created by God and placed here on earth.
There are many who will hear His word and become followers of God. And at the same time, there are many more who will hear His word and count it as foolishness. What do you think determines which you will become.
Do you believe, is it because you are more intelligent? Is it because you live in a particular area of the world? Is it the color of your skin? Or, is it the fact that you were given to hear with a greater understanding? If so, where did that understanding come from?
Sense God creates us, it must be that he chose which we would become. I believe that Rom 9:21 teaches this truth, and also Deut 14:2. And for those who do not think this is unfair, He tells us Rom 9:20.
This is accomplished by teaching us His word through His chosen ministers, providing His only son as our Savior for the forgiveness of our sins, and drawing us to Christ by the Holy Spirit.
It is only by the will of God that we become believers placing our trust in Him alone.
If this is so, then why do many wish to take credit for His work, rather than fall on their knees in thankfulness for what He has done?

 

[HeIsHere]

There is when one is trusting in the efficacy of his own "freewill". There's plenty of pride in that person; for such a person does not see himself as God sees him, i..e. helpless, weak, naked, impoverished, etc., having ZERO spiritual soundness in his body or soul.

Not one of those elements means a person is born unable to exercise belief/faith when they are told about Christ Jesus and the work He accomplished on our behalf.

In fact those elements are often the impetus for belief.
You guys really do not get it, so very sad how you hinder the truth and power of God's good news to humanity.

When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Mark 2:17

 

[BillyBob]

Not one of those elements means a person is born unable to exercise belief/faith when they are told about Christ Jesus and the work He accomplished on our behalf.

In fact those elements are often the impetus for belief.
You guys really do not get it, so very sad how you hinder the truth and power of God's good news to humanity.

When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Mark 2:17

At least you admitted that He accomplishes on our behalf! That is an improvement.

 

[HeIsHere]

At least you admitted that He accomplishes on our behalf! That is an improvement.

I have written that so many times, wow you guys are something else truly.

 

[Rufus]

LOL.. I am sure that is explicitly stated in scripture!!

Since when do you care what scripture teaches EXPLICITLY!? I have provided several passages that explicitly qualifies (limits) God's love to the lovers of Himself (Ex 20:5-6), to the righteous (Ps 146:8), to believers (Ps 32:10), to God-fearers (Ps 103:11, 17-18) and to the lovers of Christ (Jn 14:21, 23; 16:27). Yet, to this day you read into Jn 3:16 that God loves even the most wicked and vile people on this planet!

You are so self-deceived that you cannot see or have any sense whatsoever of your own hypocrisy!

 

[Blue155]

You are isolating one set of words at the expense of the other ones. You are missing the point of what the verse says. It says let US cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. It does not say that God forces you to cleanse you of the filthiness of the flesh and spirit. If that was the case, then you would be a mindless slave puppet of only doing good, right?



....

Ps. 119:9; Isa. 1:16; James 4:8; 1 Peter 1:22; 1 Jn. 3:3; 2 Tim. 2:21 has the same teaching concerning cleanse with 2 Cor. 7:1.

 

[Rufus]

“Regeneration is the power to believe the gospel unto salvation.”


Things the Bible does NOT teach.

Something else "the Bible does not teach" is that DEATH is the power to believe the gospel unto salvation.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you believe, is it because you are more intelligent? Is it because you live in a particular area of the world? Is it the color of your skin? Or, is it the fact that you were given to hear with a greater understanding? If so, where did that understanding come from?

Maybe it's because some people recognize their wretched condition and hunger and thrist for righteousness; and then when the holy spirit they can sense, but can't understand, opens their ears and heart to understand that what they are seeking is Christ, then they willing believe and Christ illuminates their being with understanding.

 

[Jordon]

Ps. 119:9; Isa. 1:16; James 4:8; 1 Peter 1:22; 1 Jn. 3:3; 2 Tim. 2:21 has the same teaching concerning cleanse with 2 Cor. 7:1.

How can you not see the lords words in theese verses

And how can you not see them being spoken from a person heart

And how can you not see that his grace is being given to speak the truth

 

[Jordon]

You are isolating one set of words at the expense of the other ones. You are missing the point of what the verse says. It says let US cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. It does not say that God forces you to cleanse you of the filthiness of the flesh and spirit. If that was the case, then you would be a mindless slave puppet of only doing good, right?



....

You are missing the fact that the lords message is being spoken from there hearts.

 

[Rufus]

Man is but a fallen creature, created by God and placed here on earth.
There are many who will hear His word and become followers of God. And at the same time, there are many more who will hear His word and count it as foolishness. What do you think determines which you will become.
Do you believe, is it because you are more intelligent? Is it because you live in a particular area of the world? Is it the color of your skin? Or, is it the fact that you were given to hear with a greater understanding? If so, where did that understanding come from?
Sense God creates us, it must be that he chose which we would become. I believe that Rom 9:21 teaches this truth, and also Deut 14:2. And for those who do not think this is unfair, He tells us Rom 9:20.
This is accomplished by teaching us His word through His chosen ministers, providing His only son as our Savior for the forgiveness of our sins, and drawing us to Christ by the Holy Spirit.
It is only by the will of God that we become believers placing our trust in Him alone.
If this is so, then why do many wish to take credit for His work, rather than fall on their knees in thankfulness for what He has done?

In their pride, they can't help but take the credit, for they need to feel that they are in complete control of their lives and choices. And they feel so strongly about this, they apparently think it's better for men to perish eternally rather than have God meddle with their hearts or will.

 

[Jackson129]

Election isn't selection. God didn't create all humanity and then pick. He chose before the foundation of the world.

The way this is being stated makes no sense to me.

God knew every single human and who they were before he ever created them. He knew every single offspring that would come from Adam and eve till the last person alive. Before he ever created Adam and eve. So election has to be selection since either one means he picked somebody he knew was going to exist before the foundation of the world.

 

[Jordon]

In their pride, they can't help but take the credit, for they need to feel that they are in complete control of their lives and choices. And they feel so strongly about this, they apparently think it's better for men to perish eternally rather than have God meddle with their hearts or will.

dont forget they want there authority to stand to lol

 

[Jordon]

I have written that so many times, wow you guys are something else truly.

that's right m where super duper naturalists

 

[Jordon]

You see words like predestined as if that was some kind of Calvinistic thing. That simply is not the case if you read and believe 1 Peter 1:1-2. True regenerate born again believers are elected based on God the Father's foreknowledge.



.....

You was born in a zoo

Me Tarzan and all that stuff

 

[Cameron143]

The way this is being stated makes no sense to me.

God knew every single human and who they were before he ever created them. He knew every single offspring that would come from Adam and eve till the last person alive. Before he ever created Adam and eve. So election has to be selection since either one means he picked somebody he knew was going to exist before the foundation of the world.

I'll try another way.
When God came to Abraham and saves him, God made promises to Abraham. In order to fulfill those promises, God would need to have a people through which the promises could be fulfilled. God didn't select a nation from all the nations that already existed. Instead, he took Abraham, who was previously from another nation, and created a nation from him.
Similarly, for God to fulfill the promises made in Genesis 3, God began with Christ and created a nation through Him. The genealogy is not by physical creation, but spiritual birth.

 

[Jackson129]

In their pride, they can't help but take the credit, for they need to feel that they are in complete control of their lives and choices. And they feel so strongly about this, they apparently think it's better for men to perish eternally rather than have God meddle with their hearts or will.

In thier pride that's a good one. What about yours. This forum is a continous argument that has been going on for 400 years before you were born and will continue till the last day. And yet you keep saying things like " I proved " over and over. You didnt prove anything except in your own mind.

1+1=2 even you and @HeIsHere can agree on that because it has ACTUALLY been proved.