Which still means "selected" those created... taking it out of time does not change that fact.
Anyway, another verse completely misinterpreted to bolster the false TULIP doctrine.
Already debunked so many times.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Which still means "selected" those created... taking it out of time does not change that fact.
Anyway, another verse completely misinterpreted to bolster the false TULIP doctrine.
Already debunked so many times.
It makes no sense to you.
There are those here who are thinkers. There are those here who are critical. There are not many here who are critical thinkers.
Sure it is. Election takes place before the foundation of the world.
No. Elected then created.Which still means "selected" those created... taking it out of time does not change that fact.
Anyway, another verse completely misinterpreted to bolster the false TULIP doctrine.
Already debunked so many times.
it is God decided only those who would accept life from his life already in them would be saved before he created us ,
See critical thinking
When you first began posting on CC, it seemed like you would be a good contributor. However, after a month has past, I find you to be an empty suit as far as ideas but an excellent cheer leader. . . . .
Acts 2:23 says, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” This verse does not teach that God decreed these men to commit evil. “Determinate counsel” refers to God’s settled plan that Christ would die for the sins of mankind, and “foreknowledge” refers to God’s perfect knowledge of what free creatures would choose when placed in certain circumstances. God simply influenced events and the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion, knowing exactly how these men would freely respond according to their own sinful desires. He did not force their evil, nor did He decree their sin. Instead, He allowed their choices to move in the direction they were already inclined, and their wicked decisions brought about the outcome He had prophesied. They “by wicked hands” have “crucified and slain” Christ because the evil was theirs, not His. This matches James 1:14, which says, “Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed,” as well as James 1:13, which states, “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”
God knows all future possibilities, and He can anticipate what men will freely choose long before they make those choices. Because of His perfect knowledge, God is able to shape and redirect events in history so that certain outcomes are fulfilled without ever being the author of sin. He can allow evil choices to unfold and yet use those choices as part of a greater plan for good. God can influence circumstances and guide the flow of history without decreeing sin, causing sin, or being morally attached to any sinful act. He simply works through what men and the devil freely choose, turning their intended evil toward the fulfillment of His righteous purposes.
Peter confirms the responsibility of the sinners again in Acts 3:14-15 when he says, “But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life.” The responsibility for Christ’s death is placed entirely upon the free and wicked choices of the men who did it, not on any divine decree forcing them into sin. God permitted their freely chosen evil to unfold at the exact moment necessary for redemption. This mirrors the story of Joseph, where his brothers meant evil, yet God used their evil actions for good without causing their sin. Acts 2:23 fully upholds God’s sovereignty while denying all forms of Calvinistic determinism.
God does know the future, and He does declare the end from the beginning, as Isaiah 46:10 says, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.” Yet God can only do what is good and what is loving. Scripture says, “God is love” (1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16), and “the Lord is good” (Psalm 100:5 and Psalm 107:1). Jesus also said, “None is good, save one, that is, God” (Luke 18:19), meaning that God alone is good in the absolute sense. Everything God does is righteous and pure. It is impossible for God to decree men to sin. It is even more monstrous to suggest that God created the majority of mankind with their one and only option in life as to sin alone, and then punishing them for something they had no control over.
For example, imagine if a master had a dog with a sickness whereby it has an uncontrollable pooping problem where it leaves hot large piles of steamy goodness up his master’s white carpets. Then when the master came home, he kicks the animal across the room like a football in a fit of rage, even though he knew the dog was sick and could not control its condition. Such a master would not be righteous or good. Yet this is exactly what Calvinism requires us to believe about God. If Calvinism were true, God would be punishing men for what they cannot control, while being the very cause of their condition. That is why Calvinism is not only false but absolutely ridiculous.
Furthermore, man can only do what is truly good and righteous when God Himself produces that good within him. Jesus said, “Without me ye can do nothing” (John 15:5). Scripture adds, “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), and speaks of believers being “filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:11). All true goodness comes from God, and all true righteousness is the fruit of His Spirit, not the product of man’s flesh (Galatians 5:22 to 23). This further proves that God does not decree sin, for God produces good in His people, not evil.
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Again, supported by scripture
[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
[2Th 2:13,14 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Actually it does! God's foreknowledge logically follows God's eternal decrees (i.e. plans, purposes). And there are several OT narratives that support this understanding.
Actually, He does.
[Act 18:27 KJV] 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Which God decreed in eternity. So, according to Act 4:27-28, how does this fact not make God morally culpable for the deat of his own Son?
The Bible teaches that we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, as stated in 1 Peter 1:1-2. This means that God does not randomly or unconditionally choose who will be saved, nor does He force anyone to believe. Instead, God, from eternity, perfectly knows how every person would freely respond to His drawing, His enlightenment, and His conviction of sin. Based on that foreknown response to the grace of His Son Jesus Christ, God elects the believer before he ever enters this world. This is not a violation of free will because God’s foreknowledge does not cause the choice. It simply knows the choice.
This understanding fits perfectly with Romans 8:29 in the King James Bible where it says, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate. Predestination in Scripture always flows from foreknowledge. God first foreknows those who would believe through their own free and genuine response to His grace. Then He predestines those believers to be conformed to the image of His Son and to receive the blessings that follow salvation. God’s election is therefore in harmony with human freedom, not against it.
Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8 strengthen this truth by showing that those who worship the beast never had their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Their names were absent because God already knew they would freely reject Him. In the same way, God foreknew who would respond to His grace and therefore chose them in Christ before the foundation of the world.
So yes, I do believe God elects a believer before he ever comes into this world, but this is based on God’s foreknowledge of the positive choice we would make toward Him, not because God forced us into choosing only the good. Free will continues to operate under God’s drawing, His enlightenment, and His convicting work, and election harmonizes perfectly with that freedom.
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Is that what you do? Did God murder his only Begotten Son (Act 4:27-28)? It appears that He decreed in eternity all the things that the Jews and Gentiles conspired to do to Jesus.
See my post here.
You said:
Deuteronomy 7:6 and Deuteronomy 9:7
Chosen:
Deuteronomy 7:6
The Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself.
Sin in the same narrative:
Deuteronomy 9:7
Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you.
Only two chapters later God calls them rebellious and sinful.
So the word "chosen" does not mean that they will perfectly do His will and live a sanctified life by God's power.
In other words, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is saying that the CALL of the gospel is that God has chosen a person for salvation THROUGH the process of living holy through the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit and a belief of the truth (believing the Holy Bible correctly).
This does not mean that every believer who is chosen to a life of salvation through the Spirit will automatically endure to the end and enter into the Kingdom. While the Lord can be persuasive, God never violates our free will so that our only choices are either perfect goodness or constant evil. If that were the case, then believers would become perfect on day one of their sanctification and would never struggle with sin. Yet we are told in 2 Corinthians 7:1 to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. This instruction makes no sense if Calvinism or determinism were true. We are not puppets programmed to do only good or to do only evil as if our choices were foreordained by God in such a rigid and mechanical way. The Bible presents a real call to holiness that requires real obedience from a believer who still has real freedom.
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See the following verse. That should clear it up for you. You took liberty to assume a doctrine those verses do not state or support -
something that you manufactured. Notice in the verse below, it states, "hath chosen you to salvation", not "knew that you would believe"
[2Th 2:13,14 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.