Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Scripture says God desires all people to be saved (1 Tim 2:4; cf. 2 Pet 3:9). But if those verses are about the elect (who God has elected to be saved before the foundation of the world per Calvinism), then God’s word is saying He desires all the saved to be saved and not perish, all while already knowing the elect are saved and will not perish.
 
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Scripture says God desires all people to be saved (1 Tim 2:4; cf. 2 Pet 3:9). But if those verses are about the elect (who God has elected to be saved before the foundation of the world per Calvinism), then God’s word is saying He desires all the saved to be saved and not perish, all while already knowing the elect are saved and will not perish.
Both meaning that He takes no pleasure in the fall of man. :rolleyes:
 
I have thought long and hard about Calvinism…and I have realized something incredibly profound about it!

It is just as false and nonsensical today as it was yesterday!

But I’m only doing, saying and believing what Calvinism’s version of God has me to do. I’m not sure why Calvinists have such an issue with that. Hmmm….
 
Both meaning that He takes no pleasure in the fall of man. :rolleyes:
That is not what the text says, but let’s say you are right.

In Calvinism, God eternally decreed the fall of man only to then not take pleasure with His own eternal decree. Makes no sense.
 
Jeremiah9-23-24-1-Corinthians-1-31.png

Jeremiah 9 v 23-24, 1 Corinthians ch 1 v 31 This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, nor the strong man in his strength, nor the wealthy man in his riches. But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, who exercises loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth - for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD. As it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”
 
That is not what the text says, but let’s say you are right.

In Calvinism, God eternally decreed the fall of man only to then not take pleasure with His own eternal decree. Makes no sense.
The fact that He did not prevent the fall, does not mean that He takes pleasure in it.
 
God is glorified each time a sinner is saved, and He is also glorified each time a sinner receives just punishment.

I believe that you may be on to something. :)
From-Ezekiel33-11.png

Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!' From Ezekiel 33 v 11 plus Lamentations 3 v 32-33 Even if He causes grief, He will show compassion according to His abundant loving devotion. For He does not willingly afflict or grieve the sons of men.
 
The first paragraph here are one of the things that are frustrating for me about other Christians . You have entire continents through entire eras doomed to hell. Romans 2-13 through 2-16 is what covers this

When yhe Gentiles which have not the law do by nature the things contained in the law these having not the law become a law unto themselves.

To me that means there is some provision our just lord and savior and his father have for those who never directly heard of the law or of Jesus.

That verse also applies to this man's nature stuff that has been ranted about for a fee thousand post. That verse actually uses the word nature. Do by nature the things contained in the law. I thought total depravity ment they couldn't do things by nature that were of God.

God baked his divine law into the nature of man which is precisely how He made man in his image -- how he made all of us moral beings in our essence. Of course, that image was badly marred at the fall but will be fully restored on the Last Day.
 
@cv5, @HeIsHere @Bible_Highlighter @ChristRoseFromTheDead I have sadly had to put a lot the Calvinists on ignore due to them falling in the category of twisting and perverting the scriptures (2 Peter 3:18; cf. Jer. 23:36), as well as being the blind leading the blind (Mt. 15:14), as scripture says “Let them alone”. Not being able to see their comments anymore will be peaceful on here.

They also are cheating others through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world (Col. 2:8).

I’m reminded not be carried about with various and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

If y’all have any other verses from the OT that will be helpful for my post, feel free to reference them.
 
Remember the screen cap images of those Calvinist websites I posted? Here is the funny thing about them. The first one says to imitate God at the bottom of its webpage. This is actually frightening if you take it seriously. If you are to imitate God and you are a firefighter, then you could act just like God by choosing to save some and not save others, even when you had the power to save everyone. In that case, if you let others perish in the fire when you could have rescued them, most people would see you as a monster who was unloving and indifferent toward human life.

This is what you fail to grasp about the god of Calvinism, which is not the true God at all but a fairy tale version imagined in the minds of men. God is love. God is good. Scripture clearly says that the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Think about that. So when you criticize us for believing we have free will in choosing God, you fail to understand that this cannot even happen without God’s drawing or illumination. Free will exists, but it can only exist under God’s power in convicting the sinner and opening their eyes. They choose, but they could not even reach the point of choosing without God.

This is what many of us Arminians believe and what has long been part of classic Arminianism. What you are attacking is not Arminianism but Pelagianism.

In other words, in this discussion there are generally four groups: Hyper-Calvinists, regular Calvinists, Arminians (who believe free will in choosing God only exists under God’s conviction and drawing), and Pelagians.





….
your blessing me one minute and cursing me the next I don't know whether you have conviction or whether you would rather use Gods word to condemn.

I've already told you I'm not a calvinist.

And whilst you may like looking for dirt, as that's what worms do on the internet, because worms are virus, are you one ? You look like one, does your free will entitle you ?

But for little me,

I'm the little worm which filters out the soil, which is your crap.

And I have given you clear instruction yesterday, that all the dirt you tried to find in every post I've made to this forum, which you did through searching through my entire post history,. To turn it into dirt, as that's what the virus threading worms do,. Are you one ? which you are doing, again are you that worm ?

You only found what you thought was dirt, because thats what you do.

And i have given you clear instruction to your dirt

Which was God gives grace to the lost.

Which again is not good enough for you,

Because why well you lack conviction in accepting the truth I'm telling you, and your full of condemnation instead,. And whilst your like that you will be what you will be.

And you will not see the truth.

Because why well because you lack conviction.

Dod God give you the free will to do this
 
Yup, noted many times on this thread, but they always tell us how humble they feel that they are among the elect/chosen/created for salvation.o_O

Like you FWers can feel any humility? In your universe God is only a potential savior -- a possible savior whose "enabling" grace is totally ineffective. So...this belief system produces trust in the only thing that is efficacious in man's salvation, i.e. man's supposed "freewill". And therein is where your PRIDE lies -- in your own "freewill" choice that actually frees God up to save you.
 
Remember the screen cap images of those Calvinist websites I posted? Here is the funny thing about them. The first one says to imitate God at the bottom of its webpage. This is actually frightening if you take it seriously. If you are to imitate God and you are a firefighter, then you could act just like God by choosing to save some and not save others, even when you had the power to save everyone. In that case, if you let others perish in the fire when you could have rescued them, most people would see you as a monster who was unloving and indifferent toward human life.

This is what you fail to grasp about the god of Calvinism, which is not the true God at all but a fairy tale version imagined in the minds of men. God is love. God is good. Scripture clearly says that the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Think about that. So when you criticize us for believing we have free will in choosing God, you fail to understand that this cannot even happen without God’s drawing or illumination. Free will exists, but it can only exist under God’s power in convicting the sinner and opening their eyes. They choose, but they could not even reach the point of choosing without God.

This is what many of us Arminians believe and what has long been part of classic Arminianism. What you are attacking is not Arminianism but Pelagianism.

In other words, in this discussion there are generally four groups: Hyper-Calvinists, regular Calvinists, Arminians (who believe free will in choosing God only exists under God’s conviction and drawing), and Pelagians.….

False! Scripture does not teach that. Your presuppositional eisegeis of 2Pet 3:9, by which you ignore context, tells you that!
 
Scripture says God desires all people to be saved (1 Tim 2:4; cf. 2 Pet 3:9). But if those verses are about the elect (who God has elected to be saved before the foundation of the world per Calvinism), then God’s word is saying He desires all the saved to be saved and not perish, all while already knowing the elect are saved and will not perish.

Again, you interpret 1Tim 2:4 totally out of context. It does not say what you think. And AGAIN, the slightly larger context of v.4 tells us who Paul meant by "all" people.
 
If y’all have any other verses from the OT that will be helpful for my post, feel free to reference them.
Romans8-29-30-Ephesians1-5.png

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
 
Romans8-29-30-Ephesians1-5.png

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
it would be nice he could accept this m