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Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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because my church leader says, church leaders know not to call themselves Calvinists.
I attend a Christian worship service and am active at a local Christian church (almost) every week. I've been doing so for about 35 years.
Why do you ask?
Calvinism is a belief primarily found within American Christian circles. Many people hold to the beliefs of Calvinism. What your church leader says about it doesn't contradict those facts.
yes my church leader does contradict because my church leader says the doctrine of grace, which is only accredited to to John Calvin, by what he called narcissists around the world are wrong to do so
Makes perfectly good sense to me, since the world is filled with believers and unbelievers that live together on a sin-filled earth, which is hardly ideal for either group -- yet, at the same time necessary for the propagation of the Gospel.
God chose to actually save those whom He decreed in eternity to bring into a personal, intimate, loving, filial, covenant relationship with Himself. These are the people whom God "[fore]knew" in eternity. The people He chose to exclude from that "covenant of love" relationship (Deut 7:9, 12; 1Ki 8:23; 2Chron 6:14; Neh 1:5, 9:32; Dan 9:4) He never knew in the way I just described.
We mustn't forget that in Gen 3:15 God did decree that there would be two kinds of "seed" (offspring) in this world: The godly offspring of Eve and the ungodly offspring of the devil. Therefore, it was never God's intention to save all mankind in the distributive sense.
I deleted something for you m, I erased it out of my memory for you
Question .
Because Jesus is the only begotten son.
Does that mean God is not a Great Grandfather.
I understand that Rufus but to the two off springs, did he still have to for-know them first ?
And I can use your very own question against you to show how Unlimited Atonement is patently absurd since Pelagians, Arminians and FWers, believe that Christ died for each and every person on this planet w/o exception, even though God knew full well in eternity that the vast majority of the human race would reject His Son. Why die for people whom God knew would never accept what Gospel offers?
Secondly, God "baked into" his eternal salfivic decrees that his chosen people would serve Him by actively participating in His plan of salvation. His elect would become his goodwill ambassadors to spread the gospel to the lost.
Why wouldn't a "Calvinist" tell the atheist what their dire spiritual needs are and assure them that God will rescue them if they cry out to him for forgiveness?
because Rufus the people who would accept would only accept by his enabling grace.
And the ones who never, who where also without excuse, which means they all had enabling grace of some kind, be it a pricked conscience, or Godly sorrow delivered to there heart to repent, but rejected
This is what I mean by for-knowing them first.
He KNOWS his sheep and His sheep know Him. And I have explained what it means to be KNOWN by God. Nowhere in scripture is it ever taught that God knows the wicked in a covenantal way. Only the elect are known by God in such a way.
Equivocation at its worst! In one breath FWers say believers accept the Gospel by "his enabling grace". But then in the very next exhale, the vast majority who supposedly were also "enabled by the same enabling grace" reject were not so enabled after since they rejected the Gospel. Bottom line with with this absurd notion is that believers are saved by enabling grace and unbelievers are lost by the very same enabling grace. And that so-called enabling grace is far more effective in getting people to reject the Gospel! If that makes sense to you, fine. But it doesn't to me, since God's grace (his favor, power) always produces positive results in scripture.
his sheep are all born with a sinful nature Rufus.
Sad but the seed man had sin enter it.
Its like a seed in plant that never produce pollen because of poison
Or a man who can't give his wife a baby because his life giving qualities are suffering.
having a pricked conscience is also enabling grace Rufus and God for-knowing you
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Blue155
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@cv5 @Kroogz, I find it almost pointless to continue back and forth with Calvinists, as when people points out how retarded and inconsistent their system is when taking it logically and consistently, they still accept it. All of their answers are based around either the elect, total depravity, or God’s glory. But even those answers leads to more questions to which ultimately they have no answer for. Such as why would God do that? Why would He have people to be totally depraved at birth? Why would He have people eternally decreed to be damned? How would that bring God glory? It doesn’t make any sense that God is going to create man to simply damn them because man deserved to be eternally damned.
Then you should learn to argue biblical principles and doctrines and not labels. It's always easy to unilaterally accuse and pass judgment upon someone without providing specific biblical substantiation as to their error or of why your biblical perceptions are correct.
It's "retarded" to you because you do not understand the fullness God's gospel of grace, hence, you trust in your works instead of God's.