Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Yeo I want this member banned or I'm leaving
I've had enough of this place m

I would suggest you guard your heart, and stand firm in your faith, and your belief in what the
Bible says. I understand the betrayal you feel as a result of the actions of some who are as
infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching
and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming, but we were told these
things would happen. That is why we place our faith in Jesus Christ, and not men.
 
We are needing to be told that so we will make ourselves willing to go along with how God wills for us to be!

Its love.
God is love!
We are not in a master-slave relationship!

Jesus showed His love for the Father by knowing and doing the Father's will!


And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying,
“My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me;
yet not as I will, but as You will.”


Matthew 26:39​
Keep in mind!
Jesus had no fallen nature when he said that!
Jesus was never a "natural man" as you love to banter around.
Yet he without sin still had to choose to submit his will to the Father’s will!

.......
 
How does God chose to simply allow all to remain in sin when everyone is born with a corrupted seed.

What God chose was for man to obey God in the garden,

God did choose for man to die or to remain in sin, he said if you sin you will die.

I take it you understand that much

I never said that God has chosen all to remain in their sin!

Anyhow...I have explained this in the simplest and most basic biblical terms possible. But it's above my pay grade to make you understand it.

Have a good day, sir.
 
We are pretty close actually, but with some differences.
I am sure that point 15 precedes the new heaven and new earth.

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https://christianchat.com/threads/will-there-be-a-rapture.216189/post-5364861

TheDivineWatermark said:
BTW, Jesus' own words shows that the "GREAT tribulation" only commences at the MID-point of the 7 yr period
Clearly. This mid-point coinciding with......this phenomenon.
For reasons that are obvious.

================================================================================

Actually, Israel's chastisement in earnest (aka "great tribulation" - specific to the sons of Jacob alone) occurs AFTER the AC is possessed/indwelt and vastly supercharged with power by Satan.

The 10 kings who remain after the tribulation wars give their power to the AC only AFTER he is resurrected from the dead (deadly head wound healed). Only then do they submit AND WORSHIP HIM. Because the AC is now (by their perception anyways) "unkillable". So unkillable that this end-time confederacy BELIEVES that they can actually go to war with YHVH and win. A Satanic deception of course......they all die.

The persecution of the Saints/Israel rapidly accelerates after Satan indwells the AC (mid-trib), who then becomes vastly powerful. You either take the mark of the beast or are executed. Resistance means death. All world governments assist in this pogrom.

Rev 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The End Times also deal with Gentile believers, too.

Revelation 7:9-14 KJV
9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Also, Jesus never says the Great Tribulation ends in the middle of the Tribulation. I am pretty sure, demonic armies, and the planet being scorched and killed is a great tribulation still. It will be unlike any other event in history that will be extremely dark and destructive on a massive skill. You cannot call that a minor tribulation or an average tribulation. Just read the trumpet judgments and bowl judgments and it sounds really intense or great. The beast's reign of terror does not end until the sixth bowl judgment when Jesus returns to destroy all nations (which are refusing to repent). After Christ's return, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire. This is towards the end of the Tribulation.

But we can agree to disagree here.
At least we agree that there is free will when it comes to us choosing God.

May God bless you this fine day.






....
 
@Jordon : Please don't leave; Look, we all cop remarks which we find to be insulting, from time to time!

So please do stay.
 
I never said that God has chosen all to remain in their sin!

Anyhow...I have explained this in the simplest and most basic biblical terms possible. But it's above my pay grade to make you understand it.

Have a good day, sir.
above my pay grade ?

How much do you earn a year ?

So you even have a Job.

What makes you you thinks having a higher pay grade holds value to God.

I think your on a slippery slope carry on arguing the way you are mate.

You've stated an opinion That God simply chooses to let people remain in sin, whilst also implying he makes that choice before for-knowing them. That's not correct sir in the slightest.

Now you won't answer that God choses in the beginning for man to not sin. God did not choose for people remain in sin he chose that man would obey him.

And he chose that his word would prick the conscience of all people.

What your saying sir is heresy
 
The End Times also deal with Gentile believers, too.
But we can agree to disagree here.
At least we agree that there is free will when it comes to us choosing God.
Yes gentile believers too definitely....."The persecution of the Saints/Israel rapidly accelerates".
And as I said, the GT begins mid-trib, the time of Jacobs trouble.
And yes, free will = true life, the only life that God creates, and we do choose to receive the cup of the covenant.
 
Grow a spine, Jordon. If a little insult sends you running, you are not mature enough to debate Scripture with strangers.
err no I'm doing what my church father says that we are lions, as Jesus is a lion, so I'm feeding them to lions, which is my church the church of Christian lions

So the lions can now have them because that what the lions will do they will feed them.

And if they don't listen the lions will gobble there garbage with the authority of a lion.

So there for I'm a king of the jungle
 
How old are you? You come across very young the way you have been acting on here. Care to share?
this is more critism from you, I'm young at heart, with him wise in his ways with him as old as his wisdom with him.

And I've already stated my age here, and you suggest his wisdom is less in me because I am younger than you, which is nothing more than immaturity,

As students in the lord get there faith given by what is enough to them.


And if you can't see that im not speaking his word with the authority to do so from him, that's on you.

And the truth is people are gifted with wisdom from God.

And if it's asked that you can share his wisdom for the right reasons his authority is granted with permission.

And if you can't see every word is cited here and his gift is given, then just carry on to try and strip his authority from me

You will lose
 
I'll change my mind if we become friends again 🤩

@Jordon : Look, Jordon, I'll be happy for us to be friends again, but you have to realise and accept the fact that I will always be of the FREE WILL Philosophy.

So do you think we'll be able to be friends again, based on that?
 
Yes gentile believers too definitely....."The persecution of the Saints/Israel rapidly accelerates".
And as I said, the GT begins mid-trib, the time of Jacobs trouble.

I do see one of the reasons for the Tribulation is to drive Israel as a nation to the wall to repent and accept their Messiah.
Yet, in the Great Tribulation (Middle of Tribulation), we see Gentile believers slaughtered by the Antichrist / Beast. Those who died or were beheaded in the Tribulation are going to go through the 1,000 year reign of Christ. So I don't see the Tribulation as exclusive to Israel. Both the Jew and the Gentile are involved and it deals with their right standing with God.

I see the Middle of the Tribulation as the Abomination of Desolations. This is the time when the Antichrist will stop the Jewish sacrifices in the new Jewish temple and he will declare himself to be God. The enforcement of the mark and his demand to be worshiped under the threat of death will not happen globally in an instant. Hence, why the Great Tribulation is not exactly at this specific point. How so?

Matthew 24:15–21 (KJV)

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )​
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:​
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:​
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.​
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!​
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:​
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."​

Meaning, after the abominations of desolations, THEN shall be great tribulation.
Not that it is the start of the great tribulation.
A great tribulation wold be defined also in the fact that the tribulation is not average or minor but that the events are great and unlike anything that has ever come before it. The trumpet and bowl judgments sound like powerful world ending events.
At least that is how I see it, brother.

You said:
And yes, free will = true life, the only life that God creates, and we do choose to receive the cup of the covenant.

Yes, we do have free will in choosing God. But I see this as only existing under God's drawing and enlightenment, which is in God's timing. Hence, why Lydia's heart was opened, and hence why the work of God is to believe in the One whom He sent is a true statement in Scripture. Meaning, it really is ultimately the work of God (not man's work) when we believe. We could not get to a point in choosing God without the Lord's involvement opening our eyes to the truth so as to decide.



.....
 
@Jordon : Look, Jordon, I'll be happy for us to be friends again, but you have to realise and accept the fact that I will always be of the FREE WILL Philosophy.

So do you think we'll be able to be friends again, based on that?
friends are always friends whatever there disagreement
 
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All people know that God exists. That's the point of Romans 1, and is why everyone is accountable before God. But they don't know from God coming to them and communicating it to them. They know because they see creation and intuit the existence of God through what they see. They also know because of conscience. God has placed eternity in their hearts. None of this requires faith.

Read the scriptures Cameron. They don't "intuit" it. God makes it known to them.

Rom.1:19
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

He doesn't have to do a Damascus road or burning bush stunt to make things known to man. There is the still, small voice that most people are completely unaware of until they get to know Him. How God makes His truth known is irrelevant to the argument you put forward regarding being drawn to God, the fact remains, it is God who makes it known. God is Spirit. You can't argue man is dead to spiritual knowledge while at the same time say he can "intuit" the Spirit who was there in the unfolding of creation.

1Kings 19:11-12
11 Then He said, “Go out, and stand on the mountain before the Lord.” And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

Never did I say it requires faith. No-one has faith until the word abides in them. One either believes what God makes known or they reject it.

Once again you have said nothing that actually pertains to the argument. You declared that being drawn to God must necessitate Christ being made known as Messiah. I have shown otherwise. Either show your argument to be true and mine false.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Faith is at the end of the road of coming, not in the coming itself. It is the reason we come. It is in the union of the Word and our will that faith is produced by the power of the word in grace.

You are not eating dinner on the way to the table, only once you sit down and put food in your mouth is hunger satisfied. In the same way, one is not saved through faith until they reach the Gospel which is the power of salvation. It is in the Gospel one learns Jesus is Saviour, not before. Until then, God the Father is drawing them to the Son, beginning with making known He exists.

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
 
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@Jordon : Look, Jordon, I'll be happy for us to be friends again, but you have to realise and accept the fact that I will always be of the FREE WILL Philosophy.

So do you think we'll be able to be friends again, based on that?
only your not always friends whatever your disagreement is, your constant thumbs down to my posts in a blink of an eye without taking any consideration proves to me you can't be a friend.

What's the count now of your blink of an eye thumbs down 100 or so

How many I have given you

Well none actually
 
@Jordon : That's good; I agree!

So you'll stay on the Forum, now that we're friends again?!
err i could but my philosophy is to test the waters and stir the waters, and so says God to in me m.

And one day you will hear from me no more.
M

But maybe you will