Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[studier]

That statement isn’t biblically accurate. It confuses justification (being saved) with sanctification (living out the results of salvation).
Salvation is the gift of God, received through faith alone apart from works (Eph. 2:8–9). Once saved, believers live out that salvation through Spirit-empowered obedience and good works (Phil. 2:12–13; Eph. 2:10), which are the evidence — not the basis — of genuine faith.

Grace and Peace

Standard faith-alone systematic theology, which I disagree with:

• Justification -> sanctification is a teaching phrase, but sanctification is also used in the perfect tense not the ongoing present tense (Acts20:32; Acts26:18; Rom15:16; 1Cor1:2; Heb10:10), aorist tense (1Cor6:11; Heb10:21), again in the perfect and pertaining to a person cleansing himself (2Tim2:21), etc. The confusion in this matter is being caused by theological teaching phrases artificially narrowing sanctification to being a specific part of the salvation process.
• "alone" is being added to the language of Eph2:8-9 as usual.
• obedience and good works are intrinsic to genuine faith, so they are more than just evidence - they part of our relationship with God through genuine faith. Internal faith/obedience (with intrinsic work) at salvation by grace through faith is then lived out in active faith/obedience and good works as we were newly created to do.

 

[studier]

No, of course not. Conforming outward behavior to our inward nature is not the same as conforming inward nature to our outward behavior.

Means and cause can overlap which is the way I took your statement. @Cameron143 seemed to take what you said and go to or question original cause which is not what I thought you said. God is original cause - we cooperate by means - as we grow that means becomes in effect a secondary cause (but never original cause).

Anyway, that was my take. I never saw original cause in your wording.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

We're going askew. You still have not shown from scripture where outward obedience causes inward conformity.

I've never said outward obedience causes inward conformity. As we practice conforming our outward to our inward, our whole being becomes conformed to the image of Christ, and we know that we know him because the spirit witnesses that our behavior is as he is..

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I guess I'll have to keep saying it until the cows come home. Justification is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation.

 

[studier]

You’re adding “obedience” into the verse, but that’s not what James wrote. Faith and obedience aren’t synonyms — faith produces obedience. You don’t handle scripture very well.

James’ whole point is that real faith shows itself through works, not that faith is works. Romans 4:5 makes that distinction clear: “To him that worketh not, but believeth…”

Faith saves — obedience follows.

Yes I did based upon other work I've shown that speaks of faith and obedience in parallel. There's a reason this was clarified in the NC writings of Paul, Hebrews, John at minimum.

Correct, faith and obedience are not synonyms, but they are parallel and inseparable - faith does not produce obedience - obedience is part of faith.

I laid out what James teaches. Works are more than evidence when we include more context from James2. James2:17 essentially puts "faith-alone" to sleep and it's bookended with James2:24 saying "not by faith alone" which puts the "faith-alone" eisegetical terminology to sleep for good.

faith/obedience that works saves. In fact, according to James2:17 faith intrinsically by itself - faith alone - is dead unless it intrinsically possesses works. The genuine faith that saves is thus really genuine faith/obedience/works and the works are those for which we were created in Christ Jesus Eh2:10. Genuine faith/obedience must have works or it is not genuine faith.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There are two aspects, or steps, to salvation: 1) death to sin and 2) made alive in Christ. Buried with him in death and raised up with him into eternal life. Reconciled through his death and saved in his life. Notice that Paul doesn't say we are saved solely by the death of his son, ie, justification, but we are saved in his life. First the reconciliation, then the salvation.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved in his life. Romans 5:10​

​

If Christ were not raised from the dead, even though our debt has been settled and we are reconciled by Christ's death, we would still be dead in our sins and lost because we would not be alive in him who is eternal life and salvation

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Corinthians 15:17​

​

In sum, justification/reconciliation is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation. Salvation is a package deal which includes abiding in Christ by doing his works.

Gnostic work-phobic thinking, however, conflates justification with salvation in order to exonerate man from having to do anything regarding salvation. This is based on the root gnostic belief that it is impossible for anything material to do anything spiritual, or stated in a more contemporary way., total inability

 

[Cameron143]

Means and cause can overlap which is the way I took your statement. @Cameron143 seemed to take what you said and go to or question original cause which is not what I thought you said. God is original cause - we cooperate by means - as we grow that means becomes in effect a secondary cause (but never original cause).

Anyway, that was my take. I never saw original cause in your wording.

There is no time where what we do externally changes what we are internally. What is the scriptural basis for a claim otherwise?

 

[Me_Clay]

There are two aspects, or steps, to salvation: 1) death to sin and 2) made alive in Christ. Buried with him in death and raised up with him into eternal life. Reconciled through his death and saved in his life. Notice that Paul doesn't say we are saved solely by the death of his son, ie, justification, but we are saved in his life. First the reconciliation, then the salvation.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved in his life. Romans 5:10​

​

If Christ were not raised from the dead, even though our debt has been settled and we are reconciled by Christ's death, we would still be dead in our sins and lost because we would not be alive in him who is eternal life and salvation

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Corinthians 15:17​

​

In sum, justification/reconciliation is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation. Salvation is a package deal which includes abiding in Christ by doing his works.

Gnostic work-phobic thinking, however, conflates justification with salvation in order to exonerate man from having to do anything regarding salvation. This is based on the root gnostic belief that it is impossible for anything material to do anything spiritual, or stated in a more contemporary way.,

 

[Me_Clay]

Not a biblical truth reports

 

[Cameron143]

I've never said outward obedience causes inward conformity. As we practice conforming our outward to our inward, our whole being becomes conformed to the image of Christ, and we know that we know him because the spirit witnesses that our behavior is as he is..

Nothing we do conforms us to the image of Christ. At best, our outward conformity demonstrates inward conformity.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Nothing we do conforms us to the image of Christ. At best, our outward conformity demonstrates inward conformity.

I can testify to the contrary. As we obey we grow and scripture witnesses to this fact

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There is no time where what we do externally changes what we are internally. What is the scriptural basis for a claim otherwise?

It's called growth. If you don't do the works of the spirit you don't grow up into Christ. You might think you do, but it's a delusion. Use it, or lose it. The servants that increased the spritual riches (talents) entrusted to them were rewarded, but the work-phobic servant who didn't do anything was cast into outer darkness.

 

[Cameron143]

I can testify to the contrary. As we obey we grow and scripture witnesses to this fact

That's what I have been asking for: what is the scriptural basis for the claim?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That's what I have been asking for: what is the scriptural basis for the claim?

Dude, I'm not going to go looking for the verses. Nothing comes to the top of my head atm, but the NT is filled with them

 

[LightBearer316]

Yes I did based upon other work I've shown that speaks of faith and obedience in parallel. There's a reason this was clarified in the NC writings of Paul, Hebrews, John at minimum.

Correct, faith and obedience are not synonyms, but they are parallel and inseparable - faith does not produce obedience - obedience is part of faith.

I laid out what James teaches. Works are more than evidence when we include more context from James2. James2:17 essentially puts "faith-alone" to sleep and it's bookended with James2:24 saying "not by faith alone" which puts the "faith-alone" eisegetical terminology to sleep for good.

faith/obedience that works saves. In fact, according to James2:17 faith intrinsically by itself - faith alone - is dead unless it intrinsically possesses works. The genuine faith that saves is thus really genuine faith/obedience/works and the works are those for which we were created in Christ Jesus Eh2:10. Genuine faith/obedience must have works or it is not genuine faith.

You’re still merging two different biblical terms and pretending they’re interchangeable — they’re not.

In the Greek text, πίστις (pistis, faith) and ὑπακοή (hypakoē, obedience) are never used as synonyms. Paul treats them as distinct — faith is the root, obedience is the result. Romans 1:5 KJV and 16:26 speak of the obedience of faith (hypakoē pisteōs) — that’s obedience that flows from faith, not obedience that defines faith.

If they were identical, Paul couldn’t write Romans 4:5 KJV the way he does: “To him that worketh not, but believeth…” He’s drawing a hard line between believing and doing.

James doesn’t blur that line either — he’s condemning dead faith, not redefining faith itself. Real faith produces works, but it isn’t works.

What you’re teaching collapses the distinction Scripture itself makes and ends up replacing grace with performance. That’s not exegesis — it’s revision.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!

 

[LightBearer316]

I guess I'll have to keep saying it until the cows come home. Justification is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation.

That line from ChristRoseFromTheDead—“Justification is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation”—is self-contradictory. You are trying to hedge against the clear teaching of Romans and Galatians by splitting justification and salvation into separate categories Scripture never divides. You really are mishandling scripture, and others on the forum reading this will quickly see that.

That’s a contradiction in terms. Scripture never separates justification from salvation — they’re part of the same redemptive act.

Romans 5:1 KJV says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” That peace with God is salvation. Paul doesn’t present justification as one step short of it; he presents it as the very point of reconciliation.

To say “justification by faith alone” but then claim “justification alone isn’t salvation” empties the phrase of any meaning. Justification isn’t a partial work — it’s God declaring the believer righteous on the basis of faith in Christ alone. Everything that follows flows from that reality, not alongside it.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!

 

[LightBearer316]

That's what I have been asking for: what is the scriptural basis for the claim?

They never do — most of what they say gets pulled out of thin air. And on the rare occasions they actually quote Scripture, it’s either out of context, pure eisegesis, or just flat-out mishandled.

​

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!

 

[LightBearer316]

Dude, I'm not going to go looking for the verses. Nothing comes to the top of my head atm, but the NT is filled with them

So in other words, you don’t actually have a scriptural basis — just a claim you can’t back up. Saying “the NT is filled with them” isn’t an argument; it’s an admission you don’t know where the verses are. If the claim were biblical, you’d be able to point to at least one clear passage instead of hand-waving it.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!

 

[LightBearer316]

There are two aspects, or steps, to salvation: 1) death to sin and 2) made alive in Christ. Buried with him in death and raised up with him into eternal life. Reconciled through his death and saved in his life. Notice that Paul doesn't say we are saved solely by the death of his son, ie, justification, but we are saved in his life. First the reconciliation, then the salvation.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved in his life. Romans 5:10​

​

If Christ were not raised from the dead, even though our debt has been settled and we are reconciled by Christ's death, we would still be dead in our sins and lost because we would not be alive in him who is eternal life and salvation

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Corinthians 15:17​

​

In sum, justification/reconciliation is by faith alone, but justification alone is not salvation. Salvation is a package deal which includes abiding in Christ by doing his works.

Gnostic work-phobic thinking, however, conflates justification with salvation in order to exonerate man from having to do anything regarding salvation. This is based on the root gnostic belief that it is impossible for anything material to do anything spiritual, or stated in a more contemporary way., total inability

That’s a creative construction, but it’s not what Scripture teaches. You’re slicing salvation into artificial “steps” that the Bible never defines.

Romans 5:10 isn’t describing two separate phases of salvation — it’s contrasting the cause and the result. “Reconciled by His death” speaks of what Christ accomplished on the cross; “saved by His life” refers to the continuing life of the risen Christ who keeps and sustains those already reconciled. Paul isn’t teaching two salvations — he’s celebrating one complete work.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 15:17 doesn’t separate justification from salvation. It shows that both depend entirely on Christ’s resurrection. If He isn’t raised, justification fails and salvation collapses with it — because they’re inseparably linked.

Scripture never calls salvation a “package deal” that requires works to complete it. Paul’s whole point in Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 is that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. The works that follow (Ephesians 2:10) are the fruit, not the payment.

Accusing faith-alone believers of “Gnostic thinking” is ironic — because the real Gnostic error was adding hidden layers to the simple gospel. The New Testament presents salvation as a single, complete act of God’s grace through faith in Christ, not a multi-stage system that depends on how well we perform afterward.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!

 

[LightBearer316]

I can also tell this isn't your writing style: