Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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LightBearer316 said:
studier again merges faith and obedience as if they’re the same act — saying, “Faith and obedience are equivalent and inseparable.”
That’s a subtle but serious distortion of Scripture. The Bible never teaches that faith is obedience; rather, obedience is the fruit and outward expression of faith. If they were equivalent, salvation would be earned by performance, not received by belief.

That’s not actually what Scripture teaches — you’re creating definitions that the Bible never gives.

Faith and obedience aren’t the same thing, and nowhere does Scripture treat them as identical. You’re blending categories that God Himself keeps distinct. Paul couldn’t be clearer in Romans 4:5 KJV: “To him that worketh not, but believeth, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith receives grace — obedience reflects it. One is the root, the other the fruit. To make them equivalent is to rewrite the very framework of salvation and turn grace into performance.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
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Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
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Appeal to the People, Strawman, Red-Herring, Equivocation, Ad Hominem - Fallacious argumentation methods.

Playing to some perceived gallery with fallacy.

No substantive argument here.
 
LightBearer316 said:
“Faith must show itself in obedience because obedience is equivalent to faith. No obedience, then no genuine faith.”​

You are equating obedience with faith itself, not as its result. That’s the serious key theological error!

That’s close, but there’s an important distinction Scripture keeps clear:


Faith isn’t equivalent to obedience — it’s what produces obedience. Paul makes that contrast plain in Romans 4:5 KJV, where he says the one who does not work but believes is counted righteous. Faith precedes obedience and gives it meaning.

If obedience were faith itself, then salvation would rest on performance instead of grace, and that would nullify the cross. True faith always results in obedience, but they aren’t the same thing — one is the cause, the other is the effect.

What you’re saying actually goes beyond what Scripture teaches.

The Bible never equates faith with obedience — it shows obedience as the evidence of faith. When Paul explains justification, he says plainly that “to him that worketh not, but believeth, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5 KJV). That’s not obedience producing faith; it’s faith producing obedience afterward.

To merge the two is to blur the very line Paul draws between grace and works. If obedience were faith, then salvation would depend on performance instead of God’s grace. Scripture consistently keeps that distinction clear — we obey because we believe, not in order to believe.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
Click to expand...
LightBearer316 said:
studier again merges faith and obedience as if they’re the same act — saying, “Faith and obedience are equivalent and inseparable.”
That’s a subtle but serious distortion of Scripture. The Bible never teaches that faith is obedience; rather, obedience is the fruit and outward expression of faith. If they were equivalent, salvation would be earned by performance, not received by belief.

That’s not actually what Scripture teaches — you’re creating definitions that the Bible never gives.

Faith and obedience aren’t the same thing, and nowhere does Scripture treat them as identical. You’re blending categories that God Himself keeps distinct. Paul couldn’t be clearer in Romans 4:5 KJV: “To him that worketh not, but believeth, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith receives grace — obedience reflects it. One is the root, the other the fruit. To make them equivalent is to rewrite the very framework of salvation and turn grace into performance.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
Click to expand...
"Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:17-20, 26)
 
Cameron143 said:
Outward obedience is the cause of inward conformation? Do you have scripture to support this?
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As we purify ourselves by conforming our behavior to the spirit and words of Christ in our hearts and minds, then we inwardly become as he is. Without holiness (purity) no one will see the lord

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:2-3​
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Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Hebrews 12:14​
 
mailmandan said:
Doing His will is the demonstrate evidence that we have come to know Him.
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It's evidence and the active outworking reality of inner genuine faith/obedience.

James would call this faith which intrinsically is not alone but possesses works. Combined with Paul (and inferred in James) it is faith/obedience which intrinsically possesses work lived outwardly actively obediently doing work.

Perfect harmony among 3 writers based in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
As we purify ourselves by conforming our behavior to the spirit and words of Christ in our hearts and minds, then we inwardly become as he is. Without holiness (purity) no one will see the lord

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:2-3​
​
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Hebrews 12:14​
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None of this states that conformity outwardly produces inward conformity. It is God willing and doing of His good pleasure that leads to transformation and conformity. We can only work out what God is working in. Further, Jesus says we can do nothing apart from Him. This necessitates His activity in our conformity.

God works from the inside out. We put on what God puts in.
 
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Cameron143 said:
It's very different. I have stated that God causes conformity, and not our outward conformity.
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Inward conformity that isn't expressed outwardly is imaginary. And the practice of good behavior builds inward conformity because we gain confidence that we are being conformed to Christ's image
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Inward conformity that isn't expressed outwardly is imaginary. And the practice of good behavior builds inward conformity because we gain confidence that we are being conformed to Christ's image
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No it doesn't. Did keeping the law change the Pharisees inwardly? No. They had a form of godlessness, but were unchanged inwardly and still full of dead men's bones...whited sepulchers.
 
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studier said:
Salvation is a gift from God (Eph2) that God and His faithfully obedient children cooperate together in accomplishing (Phil2:12-13) through genuine faith that possesses obedience and good works.
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That statement isn’t biblically accurate. It confuses justification (being saved) with sanctification (living out the results of salvation). 🤭
Salvation is the gift of God, received through faith alone apart from works (Eph. 2:8–9). Once saved, believers live out that salvation through Spirit-empowered obedience and good works (Phil. 2:12–13; Eph. 2:10), which are the evidence — not the basis — of genuine faith.

Grace and Peace
 
Cameron143 said:
No it doesn't. Did keeping the law change the Pharisees inwardly? No. They had a form of godlessness, but were unchanged inwardly and still full of dead men's bones...whited sepulchers.
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They didn't practice good behavior because they were ungodly. It wasn't their nature to do good.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
They didn't practice good behavior because they were ungodly. It wasn't their nature to do good.
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Regardless, they kept the law outwardly, and likely to a far greater degree than you or I. And neither is it your nature to do good. It is the divine nature that believers become partakers of that drives obedience.
 
Cameron143 said:
Regardless, they kept the law outwardly, and likely to a far greater degree than you or I. And neither is it your nature to do good. It is the divine nature that believers become partakers of that drives obedience.
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But they didn't do the words of Christ outwardly. It is my nature to do good because I died and Christ now lives within me. As I obey his voice my nature becomes transformed into his nature and I know that I know him.
 
studier said:
faith, if it hath not works (active outward obedience from inner faith/obedience), is dead, being alone
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You’re adding “obedience” into the verse, but that’s not what James wrote. Faith and obedience aren’t synonyms — faith produces obedience. You don’t handle scripture very well.

James’ whole point is that real faith shows itself through works, not that faith is works. Romans 4:5 makes that distinction clear: “To him that worketh not, but believeth…”

Faith saves — obedience follows.
Grace and Peace
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
But they didn't do the words of Christ outwardly. It is my nature to do good because I died and Christ now lives within me. As I obey his voice my nature becomes transformed into his nature and I know that I know him.
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We're going askew. You still have not shown from scripture where outward obedience causes inward conformity.
 
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