Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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I do believe they are the same, but it's immaterial to the conversation. Unbelievers are in a constant state of carnality. They are not subject to the law and cannot be. This is not true of those who have the law written upon their hearts.
This is something FWers seem allergic to believing. According to Scripture, flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit
unto death, but in the theology of a FWer, flesh does what Scripture says it cannot: submits to and obeys and pleases God.


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The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14
 
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Ecclesiastes 3 v 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.
:)

Great minds think alike <g>. Just yesterday I was thinking about this passage because it's yet another example of Intuitive Revelation! And this one is HUGE! Who hasn't at some time in his or her life asked profound questions about life, such as: Why am I here? Or is there a purpose to my life? Or is there meaning to my life? Or what happens when I die, etc., etc., etc.?
 
Why don't people worship Him today? Heck, the majority here say He only died for a select few.....not much worshipping going on with that.

As though the God-hating, ungodly world worships the God of the bible? :rolleyes:
 
As though the God-hating, ungodly world worships the God of the bible? :rolleyes:
Their own idolatry has them believing man can do what Jesus said was impossible for man to do.

Which is why we praise and worship God! Because God did for us what we could not do for our own selves...

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Praise the Lord for He is good His love endures forever
 
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Your post is all over the place m

Which way would you know his will better ?

By having somebody tell you or By God pricking your conscience.

Or by learning what God's revealed preceptive will is for your life.
 
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It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
 
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Do you really believe God has eternally decreed people to damnation without any choice to be saved? If you do, why? And why do you believe God would do such a thing? The consistent teaching of Calvinism believe that. Surely, you do not.

Please read these verses next time you decide to believe in Calvinism

Eph. 4:14; Col. 2:8; Heb. 13:9

Because God is not indebted to the human race; He doesn't have to save a single soul. Besides, for umpteenth time, Salvation is NOT primarily about the objects thereof, as difficult as this may be for you to swallow. Salvation, first and foremost, is all about God's glory -- just as His Justice is all about His Glory. Both saints and sinners will bow their knee one day to Christ and confess Him as Lord to the glory of God.
 
The drawing of God begins at what is called God consciousness.
Its progressive. Not one dimensional
The last phase is the Father handing the ones who remained positive to the drawing, over to Christ.

IOW, God's drawing of men to Christ is a process, correct?
 
NOT Calvinism.....but the antitheses.
Despite the fact that a "spiritual Calvinist" is part of the dynamic here.

[Luk 18:10 NKJV]
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

[Luk 18:11 NKJV]
"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.

[Luk 18:12 NKJV]
'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'

[Luk 18:13 NKJV]
"And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise [his] eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'

[Luk 18:14 NKJV]
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
 
This is something FWers seem allergic to believing. According to Scripture, flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit
unto death, but in the theology of a FWer, flesh does what Scripture says it cannot: submits to and obeys and pleases God.


The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14

What a terrible vacuum you continue to live in....

But if you are led by the Spirit,
you are not under the law.


Galatians 5:18​

After we are saved?

What difference does it make that we nail down how we got saved?
As long as we are saved!
Saved because regeneration opened our eyes to the Word of God just enough to know we are saved.

You who are regenerated are supposed to be progressing on into maturity!
Not hiding out in some corner in the maternity ward!
And, trying to keep dragging others back to that place.
A place that we have no business being in after years of being saved. Move on!

Retarded spiritual growth is not a good thing no matter how mature one may think he is humanly speaking.

Dominated will people have one track minds.
No one can not mature in Christ that way.
 
I do believe they are the same, but it's immaterial to the conversation. Unbelievers are in a constant state of carnality. They are not subject to the law and cannot be. This is not true of those who have the law written upon their hearts.
Who unbelievers? These unbelievers? Because they definitely are not gentile proselytes.

[Rom 2:9 KJV]
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

[Rom 2:10 KJV]
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

[Rom 2:11 KJV]
For there is no respect of persons with God.

[Rom 2:14 KJV]
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

[Rom 2:15 KJV]
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
 
What a terrible vacuum you continue to live in....
More like living in a state of perpetual stygian spiritual darkness, the manifestation of which is this seething cauldron of diatribes and condemnations against the unsaved that we are forced to behold while mortified.....:cry:
 
Who unbelievers? These unbelievers? Because they definitely are not gentile proselytes.

[Rom 2:9 KJV]
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

[Rom 2:10 KJV]
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

[Rom 2:11 KJV]
For there is no respect of persons with God.

[Rom 2:14 KJV]
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

[Rom 2:15 KJV]
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Can you give an example from scripture where an unbeliever loved God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength?
 
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Can you give an example from scripture where an unbeliever loved God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength?
Can you give an example from scripture where a believer loved God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength?
 
IOW, God's drawing of men to Christ is a process, correct?


The Father does the drawing invisibly, and works through the mind.
When the drawing of God progresses well, and is not resisted?
If the person has shown himself wanting to continue?

Then!

At a point that the Father will determine that a person's soul is ripe.
Then the Father hands that soul over to Christ!

Harvest time!

The handing over to Christ is not the drawing itself.
The handing over to Christ is the result of having been successfully drawn!

It is God's drawing process that must take place over time to make the fruit ready for harvest.
The drawing must lead to the development of the needed enabling to believe, before someone can be handed over to Christ.

Jesus is receiving place for the ripe fruit the Father has produced!

Harvested!


grace and peace .....
 
Can you give an example from scripture where an unbeliever loved God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength?

Why do keep asking these kinds of questions?

Get out of the Maternity Ward!

You don't even have your post regeneration doctrines straight!

So, you will understand a straight answer?
 
7th Trump

As for the end of the world:

If you’ve carefully studied the End Times and tried to harmonize all the verses, you’ll reach one of two conclusions.​
The Parable of the Weeds says, “the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels” (Matthew 13:39).​
Does this “end of the world” refer to the purification of the earth by fire after Christ’s second coming, or to the final passing away of the old earth after the Millennium when the new heavens and new earth appear?​

As for Matthew 13:41–42:

I believe the event where Jesus sends forth His angels to gather out the wicked from His kingdom takes place at number 21 in my chronology below.​


Chronological Order of End-Time Events:

1. Rapture of the Church:
In the Rapture, faithful believers, the Bride of Christ, are caught up to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the air. Christ gathers His Bride either before the Tribulation or soon after the First Seal reveals the Antichrist. The Rapture is compared to a wedding or marriage in the Parable of the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25:10):
“And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.”

In regard to Christ’s Bride potentially seeing the Antichrist revealed with the First Seal, Jesus urges believers to be ready and to pray always so that they may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass (Luke 21). The events Jesus lists correspond to the Seal Judgments in Revelation 6 and describe the beginning of sorrows, not the Wrath of God (which begins at the First Trumpet Judgment). The Antichrist is not mentioned in Luke 21 as part of the things believers will escape.

The things believers are told to escape in Luke 21:

  1. Nation rising against nation (Luke 21) – aligns with Second Seal (Revelation 6)

  2. Famines (Luke 21) – align with Third Seal (Revelation 6)

  3. Great earthquakes (Luke 21) – align with Sixth Seal (Revelation 6)

Scripture: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Note: Pestilences in Luke 21 may occur both before and after the Wrath.


2. Seals 1-3 – The Beginning of Sorrows:
The First Seal reveals the Antichrist bringing deceptive peace and conquest. The Second Seal brings war as peace is removed from the earth. The Third Seal brings famine and economic collapse. These are the beginning of sorrows, driven by human and satanic activity, not yet the direct poured-out Wrath of God.
Scripture: Revelation 6:1-6.


3. Abomination of Desolation (Mid-Tribulation):
In the middle of the Tribulation the Antichrist defiles the Jewish Temple, stops the daily sacrifices, and exalts himself above all that is called God.
Scripture: Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.


4. Fourth Seal – Death and the Great Tribulation Begins:
The pale horse is released, representing the Antichrist’s reign of terror. Authority is given to kill a fourth part of the earth with sword, hunger, and death. In other words, the Antichrist will slaughter many with the sword, hunger, and death as he begins to enforce the Mark and demand worship. Those who refuse are killed, and believers are beheaded for their faith. This marks the beginning phase of the Great Tribulation.
Scripture: Revelation 6:7-8; 13:15-17.


5. Fifth Seal – Cry of the Martyrs:
Souls cry out for justice under the altar of God in Heaven. These souls represent those who were martyred (beheaded) by the Antichrist for the Word of God and their testimony. They are given white robes and told to rest for a little season until the full number of martyrs is complete.
Scripture: Revelation 6:9-11.


6. Sixth Seal – The Son of Man Reveals Himself on the Throne; Great Earthquake and Panic of the Kings:
A great earthquake shakes the whole earth. The sun becomes black and the moon as blood. The Son of God (Christ) appears to the earth sitting upon a throne, and the wicked panic and say that the Day of His Wrath has come, meaning it is about to come upon them. These celestial signs mark the warning of the upcoming Day of the Lord.
Scripture: Revelation 6:12-17; Matthew 24:29-30.


7. Gathering of the Elect:
God’s angels gather the elect to the Lord consisting of faithful survivors who escaped the Antichrist’s reach. This event is part of the Olivet Discourse, described as the Lord’s return from the wedding, and when a person comes and knocks He opens the door and welcomes them in to enter His presence. Jesus encourages His followers that when they see the signs of the Sixth Seal, they should look up for their redemption is near, meaning they will be taken up before God’s Wrath is poured out.
Scripture: Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:26-27; Luke 12:36; 1 Thessalonians 5:9.


8. Sealing of the 144,000:
Before God’s Wrath, 144,000 servants of God are sealed with His mark on their foreheads as His special witnesses on earth. They are drawn from the twelve tribes of Israel and protected from the coming judgments.
Scripture: Revelation 7:1-8.


9. Seventh Seal – Silence in Heaven and Preparation for Trumpet Judgments:
There is silence in Heaven for about half an hour as the Trumpet Judgments are prepared. This moment serves as a solemn pause, a transition from the warnings of the Seals to the judgments that follow.
Scripture: Revelation 8:1-6.


10. First Trumpet – The Wrath of God and Day of the Lord Begin:
The First Trumpet marks the start of God’s Wrath and the Day of the Lord. Hail and fire mixed with blood are cast upon the earth, burning up a third of the trees and all green grass.
Scripture: Revelation 8:7.


11. Trumpet Judgments 2-7:
A series of progressive judgments strike the earth as the Day of God’s Wrath continues. Seas and waters turn to blood, heavenly lights darken, demonic forces torment men, and at the Sixth Trumpet four fallen angels at the Euphrates lead a massive demonic army that kills a third part of mankind.
Scripture: Revelation 8-9; 11:15.


12. Bowl Judgments 1-5:
The first five bowls are poured out upon those who worship the Beast. Sores afflict them, the seas and rivers become blood, men are scorched with fire, darkness covers the kingdom of the Beast, and they blaspheme God and repent not. The Day of the Lord continues.
Scripture: Revelation 15; 16:1-11.


13. Sixth Bowl – Second Coming of Christ:
The Euphrates River is dried to prepare the way for the kings of the east. The nations are gathered to Armageddon. Christ returns with His saints, destroys the armies of the Antichrist, and casts the Beast (Antichrist) and the False Prophet alive into the Lake of Fire.
Scripture: Revelation 16:12-16; 19:11-21.


14. Seventh Bowl – Completion of God’s Wrath:
A great voice from the temple declares “It is done.” A massive earthquake and great hail follow. Babylon splits, cities fall, and the global system collapses. Here the Day of God’s Wrath comes to its end.
Scripture: Revelation 16:17-21.


15. Earth Purified by Fire – The Day of the Lord Ends:
The earth is purified by fire similar to how the earth was once purified by water during the global flood. The Day of the Lord officially ends.
Scripture: 2 Peter 3:10-12.


16. Millennial Kingdom (The One Thousand Year Reign of Christ):
Christ reigns bodily for 1,000 years with His saints. Peace and righteousness fill the world as Satan is bound.
Scripture: Revelation 20:1-6.


17. Satan Released and Final Rebellion:
At the end of the Millennium (i.e., the 1,000-year reign of Christ), Satan is released to deceive the nations again. They gather against the beloved city but are devoured by fire from Heaven. Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire.
Scripture: Revelation 20:7-10.


18. Passing Away of the Old Heaven and Earth:
The first heaven and earth pass away and no place is found for them. The old creation is gone.
Scripture: Revelation 20:11.


19. New Heaven and New Earth Appear:
God creates a new heaven and new earth. On this new earth there is no more sea.
Scripture: Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:13.


20. New Jerusalem Descends from Heaven:
The holy city comes down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Scripture: Revelation 21:2-3; 21:10-27.


21. The Judgment of the Righteous and the Wicked:
All stand before Christ. Both the righteous and the wicked are judged. God’s people are first judged (see 1 Peter 4:17), then the wicked. All are judged according to their works, whether they be good or bad. The righteous will enter the Kingdom of God, and the wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Note: The righteous can only be righteous by first accepting God’s grace through faith in the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, seeking His mercy, and then by allowing God to do His good works or righteous acts through them.

Important Note: Matthew 13:41-42 (Parable of the Weeds) takes place here at the Judgment.
Scripture: Revelation 20:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Romans 14:10-12; Luke 13:28-29; 1 Peter 4:17.


22. Eternal State – New Heaven and New Earth:
God dwells forever with His redeemed. There is no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain. The curse is gone forever and His servants reign with Him eternally.
Scripture: Revelation 21:3-5; 22:1-5.






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Actually, it does. Believers today have the same authority over the forces of evil that the disciples had. What Jordon gets wrong is that he thinks he has authority over other people.
The part that doesn’t apply today is the part that talks about treading on serpents and scorpions without getting hurt. That was part of the miraculous abilities they had back then to confirm the word.
 
Why do keep asking these kinds of questions?

Get out of the Maternity Ward!

You don't even have your post regeneration doctrines straight!

So, you will understand a straight answer?
I will when you get off life support.