Israel.
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You can't break an unconditional covenant, ergo the old covenant was not unconditional because God said they broke it
No, the Abrahamic covenant was not broken, it is not possible to break it.
As has been told you many times, God promised in the unconditional covenant of Genesis 15 to give the land to Christ, not to Abraham's descendents.
Why wouldn't Jesus be considered of Abraham seed?
The blood covenant of Genesis 15 was an unconditional covenant giving the land to Christ, not Israel. This is proven by Galatians 3:16 and the context of Genesis 15.
Context:
- God promised to give the land to Abram
- Abram asked how would he know he would receive the land (in other words he was asking for surety)
- God told Abram to prepare animals for a blood covenant as surety
- God cut a covenant with Abram promising to give the land, not to Abram, but to his seed
The tribes of Canaan was not the subject of our conversation, but all the people that live within the modern "greater Israel" map, the borders of which far exceed those of the old covenant promised land.
The people of the area are not by any means one and same with the Canaanites, just as the modern Israelis are not the children of Abraham.
BTW the Canaanites were not punished because of their DNA, but because of their sins.
Their sins included worship of Moloch, Baal and the sacrifice of children.
God suffered them long, showing patience to them even after He had declared the land holy and promised it to Abraham and his seed. Remember Genesis 15:16 "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.".
God showed this patience to the Israelites long after they had returned to the same iniquities, and lost their right to exist in the holy land. Eventually He punished them in a similar way saving only a remnant to live in Babylon and repent.
The remnant of Israel once again obtained it's right to the holy land after it repented and returned to God.
The mission of Israel was fulfilled and continues to be fulfilled in Jesus, through whom all families of the earth are to be blessed. Genisis 12;3.
If I was to steal your house and appear to be the victor, I would not be a victor in the eyes of God because He knows I am a thief.
Who does the Bible call the children of Abraham?
So all Christians should be living in Israel? You are clueless. It is the covenant of the Law that has been superseded. John 1:17. And you still ignore what Paul wrote in Romans 9-11.
All Christians will be living there after the resurrection. In Romans 9-11 Paul goes into painstaking detail about how only a faithful spiritual remnant is ever saved.
Rubbish. God's covenant with Abraham was unconditional (look up the word) and irrevocable (look that up too). Israel exists again, proving you wrong. Get over it.
The Jews can't win. They are hated throughout the world. The world wanted to be rid of them so, they enabled them to go to Israel. Now the Jews have their own state and they are still hated by much of the world. And its getting worse. Israel will prevail anyway, because God says so.
Hello Light Bear.
I just looked up some timelines on the prophets that you quoted (and a couple more) and hope it might throw some light on those verses.
They are as follows:
Isaiah- Born 8th century, died 7th.
Ezekiel- Born 625, lived 52 years.
Jeremiah- Born 650 died 570
Daniel- Lived 6th century
Babylonian exile- Began around 597 and happened in a number of waves.
Construction of second temple- Began 537
This is all relevant to your verses, because we can now know that Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah are very likely to have been speaking of the second temple restoration of Jerusalem and not 1948.
In the book of Ezekiel we can know with absolute certainty that this is the case, because in the final chapters God speaks in glowing terms about the rebuilding of the temple and the restoration of the sacrifices.
To rebuild a third temple and to offer animal sacrifices would be an abomination to God (Mathew 24), because Jesus is the final sacrifice for our sin.
It makes very little sense that any of these prophets would tell the suffering captives about 1948.
What possible comfort would give them? How could it be relevant?
Who does the Bible say are the children of Abraham?
God foretold the coming of Jesus to Adam, Eve and the devil. Obviously pointless as it was 4,000 years before Jesus was born.
Tongue in cheek or an insult? First time discussing so I'll give the benefit of the doubt.
I am not "the guy" .My intent isn't to push buttons but to defend the truth.
Never? So the opening wasn't supposed to be an insult?
Fair enough, but that's their decision, the same as any other country around the world.
So the Jews have no right to a homeland? BTW that isn't what happened. The Jews bought that land back, at higher prices. And it was not good land,but they took it anyway. The "Palestinians" were offered the better half and bigger share of the land and refused it.
Agreed.
America regards Hamas as terrorists. And there is a reason their brothers in surrounding countries refuse to help them and take them in. Check history on that. There is no doubt that they are terrorists.
Still facts are facts and history can guide us to what is true.
I will read your next posts then and we will discuss where you choose to go.
I actually meant pushing buttons in the digital way, not the emotional.
We understand each other but I am guessing that you live outside Australia (I didn't look you up), because it is the custom here to abbreviate peoples names in a slightly creative way.
I also do this to remember who is who among commenters I have not met.
I admit that "Roast Lamb" carried some annoyance at your unexplained digital activity, and am working on another one.
I think that the goal of eradicating Hamas is only practical if the true goal is to eradicate everyone.
What happens when the last teenager stands on a hill and waves a Hamas flag?
I also think that " Israel" and America financed and set up Hamas (through Qatar} for the same reason.
That's my "conspiracy theory", and I"m sticking to it.
I bring up some Biblical matters in my posts, and would like to hear your response to those too.
Who does the Bible call the children of Abraham?
Jesus offered a lot more hope and relevance to Adam than 1948 would have to the captives though.
I will get back to your post ASAP. A little under the weather tonight so my brain isn't braining. Do feel free to come over to the Miscellaneous forum for a fun thread I started on favorite foods. When I feel better I will get back to the topic here. Roast lamb isn't too bad for a name I guess. I had lamb only once, all I can say is it was a good long chew. Not my favorite. Hope to see you on the other thread.
What are the implications if Ezekiel is to be taken off the Cyrus Scofield favorite list?
It would take the wind out of a fair few Billy Graham sermons would it not?
I could bring Jeremiah on to this forum too, but he was never the type of man to get a lot of "likes".
You still confuse the nation, people and land of Israel with the church. How do you explain this?
Amos 9: 11-15.
“In that day I will restore the fallen tent of David. I will repair its gaps, restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old, that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations that bear My name,” declares the LORD, who will do this. “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes, the sower of seed. The mountains will drip with sweet wine, with which all the hills will flow. I will restore My people Israel from captivity; they will rebuild and inhabit the ruined cities. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will firmly plant them in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land that I have given them."
Israel was uprooted by Rome, finally around AD135. A remnant remained, the rest dispersed around the world. God began the process of restoration towards the end of the 19th century. Israel declared independence in 1948, fulfilling the prophecy, "I will firmly plant them in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land that I have given them." The return from previous exiles does not fit as they were uprooted again by Rome. So guess again.
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