Israel.

[ThereRoseaLamb]

And there you have it. The real reason modern Israel exists. To protect western imperialism/colonialism. And you thought it was God's doing.

Yes, because we all know how smart Biden was. rofl. Israel is an ally to America, as are a lot of countries around the world. They are the only democracy in the ME. Israel is God's doing as is America. All for His plan and purpose.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

1. God has the right to kill who He needs to Kill, but man has no claim on His right.

Absolutely wrong. We have a right to defend our country. We have a right to help others, not just Israel, defend their countries. War happened in the Bible.

Who are you calling "the wicked" here? Is it because of race or because they are born in a land that Ísrael" wants?"

Historically and Biblically the land belongs to the Jews. But you don't need the Bible to prove the land belongs to them. 3000 yrs worth of proven history in the land. Who we are calling wicked is Hamas, and anyone who supports Hamas because they are terrorists.

Are you more righteous than they?

They are terrorists, so yes.

2."Israel" kills and displaces local inhabitants who they judge to be Gentile, not because they belong to a particular tribe. There are Arabs who they have not yet gotten rid of inside the new state, but they are treated badly.

Right except those aren't the facts or the stats.

1. The average income and standard of living for Arabs in Israel are higher than in most Arab countries, with improvements in life expectancy and access to healthcare.

2. Israel is a democracy, Arabs living in Israel have more freedom of movement and freedom of expression than they would in many other Arab nations.

3. Arabs in Israel have access to better jobs and a more reliable social safety net.

Just a few facts.

7.&8. Probably qualifies as a doubtful disputation.

Watch Screams Before Silence, made by a liberal, not a Zionist, and get back to me. Try and justify what was done on Oct 7. What they did was sick, there is no other way to say it.

9. If only the little finger is hurt the whole body feels it. I defend the righteous name of Jesus, not the righteousness of Christians. Religious institutions become safe havens for pedophiles when we fail to expose the wickedness of man. Ephesians 511.

Umm people who are pedophiles aren't Christians. Watch what you say against your brothers and sisters, we are one body.

10. Genesis 12:3 " And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." All the families of the earth have been blessed by Israel through Jesus. Jesus defines blessing differently than the world does. Did you think that was modern Israel? Who does the Bible call "children of Abraham"?

Yes, we have been blessed through Israel and it will continue. God has a plan for Israel the apple of His eye.

it makes no sense to "bless Israel" with weapons to start wars and then tell the refugees to go back to where they came from.
(didn't have time to check typos)

It doesn't have to make sense. The Bible tells you to bless the Jews, and that's what we should do.

 

[LightBearer316]

And there you have it. The real reason modern Israel exists. To protect western imperialism/colonialism. And you thought it was God's doing.

The idea that Israel’s modern existence is merely a tool of “Western imperialism” ignores the biblical foundation God Himself laid. Scripture consistently affirms that Israel’s covenant and restoration are God’s doing — not man’s.

“For the LORD will not forsake His people for His great name’s sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you His people.” — 1 Samuel 12:22 (KJV)
“For thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen… and bring them into their own land.” — Ezekiel 37:21 (KJV)​

The rebirth of Israel in 1948 wasn’t just political coincidence — it aligned precisely with prophecies of God gathering His people back to their land after centuries of dispersion (Isaiah 11:11–12, Jeremiah 30:3). Nations may have their reasons, but behind it all, Scripture shows the sovereign hand of God fulfilling what He promised long ago.

Grace and Peace

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It doesn't have to make sense. The Bible tells you to bless the Jews, and that's what we should do.

The bible says to bless everyone, even those who curse us.

 

[God-fearing]

The bible says to bless everyone, even those who curse us.

And that would include the jews wouldn't it?

 

[God-fearing]

They always forget to mention this part...

How does U.S. aid to Israel serve America’s interests?
Security assistance to Israel is not only an investment in Israel’s safety but also serves to advance U.S. interests in the Middle East as America’s only democratic ally in the region.

Israel—along with Egypt, Jordan, and the Gulf States—is a U.S. military ally against the onslaught of Iran-backed terror groups and proxies who happen to live next door to the Jewish state.

Additionally, Israel and the United States engage in longstanding intelligence cooperation, sharing information on common security threats, collaborating on technology development, and coordinating efforts in areas such as counterterrorism.

Today, nearly three-quarters of the aid to Israel is delivered in the form of advanced weaponry and other defensive equipment that is produced in the United States. Much of the technology is developed in Israel.

For example, the Iron Dome, invented by Israel but produced in America, now not only is used by the Jewish state, but has also become part of the U.S. Army’s defense system. This represents how U.S. financial support and defense technology, combined with Israeli know-how and ingenuity, advances American security.

Financially, this aid invests in America. It directly supports over 20,000 jobs in the U.S. and indirectly supports thousands of other jobs. Over 1,000 companies in the U.S. have signed contracts worth billions of dollars through America’s commitment to help Israel defend against ascending threats.

Furthermore, arming Israelis with American weapons to fight terrorism spares American servicemen and women from doing it. Former Secretary of State and U.S. Army General Alexander Haig’s observation 35 years ago still resonates today: “Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.”


When President Biden was serving as a U.S. Senator, he spoke about the importance of America’s democratic ally Israel, saying, “Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the [Middle East].”

Ya see all other nations are to have friends and allies except Israel. That goes with everything else.

 

[TruthDefender]

Absolutely wrong. We have a right to defend our country. We have a right to help others, not just Israel, defend their countries. War happened in the Bible.



Historically and Biblically the land belongs to the Jews. But you don't need the Bible to prove the land belongs to them. 3000 yrs worth of proven history in the land. Who we are calling wicked is Hamas, and anyone who supports Hamas because they are terrorists.




They are terrorists, so yes.



Right except those aren't the facts or the stats.

1. The average income and standard of living for Arabs in Israel are higher than in most Arab countries, with improvements in life expectancy and access to healthcare.

2. Israel is a democracy, Arabs living in Israel have more freedom of movement and freedom of expression than they would in many other Arab nations.

3. Arabs in Israel have access to better jobs and a more reliable social safety net.

Just a few facts.



Watch Screams Before Silence, made by a liberal, not a Zionist, and get back to me. Try and justify what was done on Oct 7. What they did was sick, there is no other way to say it.




Umm people who are pedophiles aren't Christians. Watch what you say against your brothers and sisters, we are one body.



Yes, we have been blessed through Israel and it will continue. God has a plan for Israel the apple of His eye.



It doesn't have to make sense. The Bible tells you to bless the Jews, and that's what we should do.

Yes, what happened on 7 Oct. was unprovoked, wicked terrorism! What Hamas and other Iranian proxy groups did to innocent civilians was hideously wicked!! Israel had every right to defend themselves, and run them down; just like any government has the right to defend their people from terrorists.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The bible says to bless everyone, even those who curse us.

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you".

 

[Beekeeper]

Absolutely wrong. We have a right to defend our country. We have a right to help others, not just Israel, defend their countries. War happened in the Bible.



Historically and Biblically the land belongs to the Jews. But you don't need the Bible to prove the land belongs to them. 3000 yrs worth of proven history in the land. Who we are calling wicked is Hamas, and anyone who supports Hamas because they are terrorists.




They are terrorists, so yes.



Right except those aren't the facts or the stats.

1. The average income and standard of living for Arabs in Israel are higher than in most Arab countries, with improvements in life expectancy and access to healthcare.

2. Israel is a democracy, Arabs living in Israel have more freedom of movement and freedom of expression than they would in many other Arab nations.

3. Arabs in Israel have access to better jobs and a more reliable social safety net.

Just a few facts.



Watch Screams Before Silence, made by a liberal, not a Zionist, and get back to me. Try and justify what was done on Oct 7. What they did was sick, there is no other way to say it.




Umm people who are pedophiles aren't Christians. Watch what you say against your brothers and sisters, we are one body.



Yes, we have been blessed through Israel and it will continue. God has a plan for Israel the apple of His eye.



It doesn't have to make sense. The Bible tells you to bless the Jews, and that's what we should do.

Its good to finally hear from you Roast Lamb, as you are the guy that presses the most bad buttons on me.
Communication is always far better in my opinion, and I never press those buttons.
I accept your point about self defense, though "Israel" engages in a lot of activity that I do not think falls into that category.
I never imagined that I was writing in defense of Hamas but of all the inhabitants of lands that "Israel" wants.
For many it is like as if I came to your country and stole your house on the claim that I had an ancestor there 3000 years ago.
Does not pass the pub test, as we say here in Australia, and it would certainly give you the right to defend yourself.
I also agree with you that pedos are not Christians. There are wolves in sheep's clothing and we should expose them, just as we should expose our brothers and sisters when fall into sin. There are Biblical guidelines for that though.
Regarding spiritual wickedness in general, I would say just expose it openly and directly.
Regarding the word "Terrorist", we have to be aware how the word is weaponized these days.
It is a legal category of person who has no rights. Rather convenient if you wish to steal from that person.
Regarding political differences in general, you have your ideas about what is happening, and I have mine.
Best approach is that we at least desire the truth, while allowing each other to differ if needs be.
It is fair that we look for topics that the Bible can help us with while on a Bible discussion forum.
I may be blamed for starting it, but I want to avoid getting too deeply into politics here, if it takes us away from the Bible.

 

[Beekeeper]

And that would include the jews wouldn't it?

I fully agree with you. The free offer is definitely for the Jews.
Who does the Bible call the children of Abraham?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Its good to finally hear from you Roast Lamb,

Tongue in cheek or an insult? First time discussing so I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

as you are the guy that presses the most bad buttons on me.

I am not "the guy" . My intent isn't to push buttons but to defend the truth.

Communication is always far better in my opinion, and I never press those buttons.

Never? So the opening wasn't supposed to be an insult?

I accept your point about self defense, though "Israel" engages in a lot of activity that I do not think falls into that category.

Fair enough, but that's their decision, the same as any other country around the world.

I never imagined that I was writing in defense of Hamas but of all the inhabitants of lands that "Israel" wants.
For many it is like as if I came to your country and stole your house on the claim that I had an ancestor there 3000 years ago.
Does not pass the pub test, as we say here in Australia, and it would certainly give you the right to defend yourself.

So the Jews have no right to a homeland? BTW that isn't what happened. The Jews bought that land back, at higher prices. And it was not good land,but they took it anyway. The "Palestinians" were offered the better half and bigger share of the land and refused it.

I also agree with you that pedos are not Christians. There are wolves in sheep's clothing and we should expose them, just as we should expose our brothers and sisters when fall into sin. There are Biblical guidelines for that though.
Regarding spiritual wickedness in general, I would say just expose it openly and directly.

Agreed.

Regarding the word "Terrorist", we have to be aware how the word is weaponized these days.
It is a legal category of person who has no rights. Rather convenient if you wish to steal from that person.

America regards Hamas as terrorists. And there is a reason their brothers in surrounding countries refuse to help them and take them in. Check history on that. There is no doubt that they are terrorists.

Regarding political differences in general, you have your ideas about what is happening, and I have mine.
Best approach is that we at least desire the truth, while allowing each other to differ if needs be.

Still facts are facts and history can guide us to what is true.

It is fair that we look for topics that the Bible can help us with while on a Bible discussion forum.
I may be blamed for starting it, but I want to avoid getting too deeply into politics here, if it takes us away from the Bible.

I will read your next posts then and we will discuss where you choose to go.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you".

Nothing in the NT about that. But there is this:

Bless the ones cursing you. And pray for the ones threatening you. Luke 6:28​

​

Bless the ones persecuting you. Bless and do not curse. Romans 12:14​

​

But the tongue no one is able of men to tame; it is an unrestrained evil, full of poison causing death. By it we bless God and father, and by it we curse men, the ones who are born according to the likeness of God. From out of the same mouth comes forth blessing and curse. It does not behoove us, my brethren, for these things so to be. James 3:8-10​

 

[Needevidence]

I agree. Same exact language - τω σπερματι σου

In that day [the] LORD ordained a covenant with Abram, saying, to your seed (τω σπερματι σου) I will give this land, from the river of Egypt unto the river of the great Euphrates, Genesis 15:18​

​

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed (τω σπερματι σου), which is Christ. Galatians 3:16​

This may interest you - There is a debate going on as to 'seed' being singular or plural – a few of many examples

Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (zar·‘ă·ḵā seed - offspring /descendants) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[seed above talks about Eve – clearly more than 1 seed]

Gen 12:7 - And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed (lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants ) will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Gen 13:16 - And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed (zar·‘ă·ḵā seed - offspring /descendants) also be numbered.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed (ū·lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants) after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Psalms 18:50 - Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed (ū·lə·zar·‘ōw – seed / offspring /descendants) for evermore.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

This may interest you - There is a debate going on as to 'seed' being singular or plural – a few of many examples

Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (zar·‘ă·ḵā seed - offspring /descendants) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[seed above talks about Eve – clearly more than 1 seed]

Gen 12:7 - And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed (lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants ) will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Gen 13:16 - And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed (zar·‘ă·ḵā seed - offspring /descendants) also be numbered.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed (ū·lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants) after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Psalms 18:50 - Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed (ū·lə·zar·‘ōw – seed / offspring /descendants) for evermore.

Seed can mean singular or plural depending on context. Galatians 3:16 and the context of Genesis 15 (as I described above) proves that God made a covenant with Abraham to give the land to Christ, and not to his descendents.

 

[Needevidence]

Seed can mean singular or plural depending on context. Galatians 3:16 and the context of Genesis 15 (as I described above) proves that God made a covenant with Abraham to give the land to Christ, and not to his descendents.

Yes Gal 3:16 Paul implies 'singular' - however, Gen 15 (lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants) is the same as other passage in the OT which clearly is not 'singular'

 

[TruthDefender]

Its good to finally hear from you Roast Lamb, as you are the guy that presses the most bad buttons on me.
Communication is always far better in my opinion, and I never press those buttons.
I accept your point about self defense, though "Israel" engages in a lot of activity that I do not think falls into that category.
I never imagined that I was writing in defense of Hamas but of all the inhabitants of lands that "Israel" wants.
For many it is like as if I came to your country and stole your house on the claim that I had an ancestor there 3000 years ago.
Does not pass the pub test, as we say here in Australia, and it would certainly give you the right to defend yourself.
I also agree with you that pedos are not Christians. There are wolves in sheep's clothing and we should expose them, just as we should expose our brothers and sisters when fall into sin. There are Biblical guidelines for that though.
Regarding spiritual wickedness in general, I would say just expose it openly and directly.
Regarding the word "Terrorist", we have to be aware how the word is weaponized these days.
It is a legal category of person who has no rights. Rather convenient if you wish to steal from that person.
Regarding political differences in general, you have your ideas about what is happening, and I have mine.
Best approach is that we at least desire the truth, while allowing each other to differ if needs be.
It is fair that we look for topics that the Bible can help us with while on a Bible discussion forum.
I may be blamed for starting it, but I want to avoid getting too deeply into politics here, if it takes us away from the Bible.

Are you aware that 7 nations occupied the land of Canaan before God wiped them out? It sounds like you’re sympathizing for those nations, because you feel it was wrong to annihilate them; I suppose you think first come, first serve…. God called them wicked!! He gives the land to whomever He wants! Who are we to dictate otherwise?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes Gal 3:16 Paul implies 'singular' - however, Gen 15 (lə·zar·‘ă·ḵā – seed / descendants) is the same as other passage in the OT which clearly is not 'singular'

It's the same in Greek. Context is what determines specific meaning

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Are you aware that 7 nations occupied the land of Canaan before God wiped them out? It sounds like you’re sympathizing for those nations, because you feel it was wrong to annihilate them; I suppose you think first come, first serve…. God called them wicked!! He gives the land to whomever He wants! Who are we to dictate otherwise?

God called Israel wicked many times as well. So are you going to apply the same rule to them? And he calls the city that men now call Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11:8).

 

[Needevidence]

It's the same in Greek. Context is what determines specific meaning

Not in the OT clearly not related to '1'

 

[Gideon300]

You're so delusional. America has kept modern Israel alive for the past 77 years with its massive infusion of aid, and the more that aid has increased the more America has declined.

American aid to Israel last 10 years: about $40 billion. World aid to Arabs living on Israel's territory (Gaza and Judea/Samaria): about $40 billion. Where would you rather live? Iran? Iraq? The construct falsely called Palestine? Or Israel? If you want to survive in the Muslim hellholes, I'd advise you to change you name to Mohamed.

The more America, including those who hold to replacement theology, turn against Israel, the greater the decline. America hangs by a thread before it falls into an abyss. One of its only virtues is support of Israel. American ignorance of Israel's role in the world is pretty typical of American ignorance of world affairs generally.

Israel is bulwark against Islam. Do you know what Jihadists (many, many Muslims) say? "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people." Israel stands alone in the Middle East. It is the only democracy. It is the only true ally that America has. Israel has knowledge of Arab intentions that America could never find out.

America is falling under the spell of Islam. Obviously America has learned nothing from the experiences of Britain and Europe generally. I admit that I did not see this coming. I used to have great respect for Americans generally. But the last few years have made me much more pessimistic about America's future.