The Eternal New Covenant was always God's end game -- his Plan -- His Purpose for mankind; for it is in this NC age that the Abrahamic covenant is being fulfilled. Therefore, there is no going back to any of the weak or beggarly elements of the Old Covenant which simply foreshadowed the New. There's no more distinctions, no more physical temples, etc.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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The Eternal New Covenant was always God's end game -- his Plan -- His Purpose for mankind; for it is in this NC age that the Abrahamic covenant is being fulfilled. Therefore, there is no going back to any of the weak or beggarly elements of the Old Covenant which simply foreshadowed the New. There's no more distinctions, no more physical temples, etc.
You finally get something right! Congratulations. The "144,000" is, yet, another large symbolic number that pertains to Jewish believers in the Messiah. However, the Gentiles are spoken of in the very same chapter!
Rev 7:9
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
NIV
Ethnic Jews are the minority of NC believers -- yet, salvation is of them. They were the ones who initially spread the gospel to the Gentile nations who consist of such a large number of elect (compared to the number of Jews) that no one can count them.
What do you think the New Eternal Order will be on this restored earth if not God's total Dominion over all creation?
But that doesn't change the fact that Christ was always fully divine and fully human. The Jews in the OT looked forward to the Cross of the Messiah, whereas in this NC age, all believers of all stripes look back to the Cross of the Messiah.
While we agree that Calvinism is false, I believe your interpretation on Philippians 2:7 KJV here is incorrect, brother.
Modern Bibles such as the ESV and NLT falsely teach that Jesus emptied Himself or gave up His divine privileges in Philippians 2:7 KJV.
The KJV correctly teaches that Christ humbled Himself (“made himself of no reputation”),
not that He relinquished His deity or divine nature.
Although Jesus appeared to suppress His omniscience, becoming a figurative second Adam in that He grew in wisdom and knowledge (Luke 2:52), Scripture also shows that He possessed divine power and authority of His own throughout His earthly ministry.
#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21). Please take note that this was said in context after Jesus healed the man at the pool of Bethesda. Jesus was also saying this when the Pharisees were upset that he did this healing on the Sabbath. So when Jesus says He can raise the dead, like the Father can, He is laying claim to ownership to this miracle He just did. Yes, Jesus did not bring this man at the pool back from the dead. But he did make his legs that were dead to come back alive and He also no doubt had led this man to trust in Him (Which is spiritual life). So this is an example of Jesus acting on behalf of his own power. Jesus does nothing of Himself alone without the Father. Yet, Jesus said that what He sees the Father do (like healing miracles), He also can do likewise (See: John 5:19).
#2. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6). This is clearly an act of God here. Only God can truly absolve sin in regard to our salvation and give us eternal life. No man could ever do this. So clearly Jesus is exercising His divine power as God on Earth. There are several examples in Scripture of Jesus forgiving others their sins (Which is clearly a divine act or power of God alone). Jesus also extended eternal life to others by pointing to Himself. Only God can truly have this power.
#3. Jesus had power to take on our sins & Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).Jesus took away the sins of the world by His death. Only God could do this. Jesus took on our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane in His body. He sweat great drops of blood in this process. No human could do this. Only God could. God is our Savior and not some mere man. Yes, Jesus had a flesh and blood body. No doubt about it. But no mere man has any power for such a task. Only God could truly have the power and strength to carry and take away our sin. In other words, man cannot resist all of his own sin of his own power, and yet for a man to take on the whole sins of the world? Not possible by the strength or power of some mere man alone. Truly the divine power of the eternal Word was at work here.
#4. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today. Meaning, Jesus can be in His spirit among other believers who went away to some other location. Remember, God is Omnipresent. Jesus can be anywhere in His spirit as He desires because He is God. No man has such a power or ability. Only God has this ability.
#5. Jesus can make His home or abode inside of us if we keep His commandments (John 14:15). This is a part of His divine power and or abilities as God. Humans born to two parents cannot make their homes inside other people. Jesus did not say he would only do this after His resurrection, either. He said it to those around Him and therefore Jesus would have exercised this power because some follower of His would have strived to keep His commands.
#6. “This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.” (John 2:11). This was a direct statement. Meaning, Christ’s miracle at the wedding of Cana manifested His glory. This was his first miracle done by Jesus, and it was a part of His showing forth His deity as God. The apostle John did not say that the Lord Jesus manifested the Holy Spirit’s glory, but His own glory. So when Jesus turned water into wine (unfermented wine), it was an act that manifested His own power as the Son of God.
#7. ”And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” (John 14:13-14). This was said by Jesus before the cross, and answering prayers is definitely a divine act of God. Please pay close attention to what Jesus said. He said, “I will do it“ in reference to answering prayer. So if a person prays for a healing in His name, he will do it. He will be the One who will heal them and do it.
#8. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#9. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19). This aligns with the words of Jesus elsewhere when He said, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” (John 10:17-18). This commandment have I received of my Father." These statements by our Lord highlights His divine authority over His own life and death.
Side Note 1:
It's important to remember that God the Father also performed miracles through Jesus (John 14:8-12). Additionally, Jesus cast out demons and healed people through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:22-32). However, this does not conflict with the fact that Jesus possessed His own divine power as God and actively used it. While the theological doctrine of the Kenosis suggests that Jesus had power but chose not to use it, I believe the verses above clearly demonstrate that He did indeed exercise His own divine authority as the Son of God during his Earthly ministry.
Side Note 2:
While the Greek word ἐκένωσεν (ekenōsen) does carry the literal meaning “to empty,” it is used figuratively in Philippians 2:7 KJV to describe Christ’s voluntary self-humbling. In light of the New Testament record of His ministry, this cannot mean that He ceased to be divine (as shown in the verses above). It is also important to note that the Greek text underlying the King James Bible primarily follows Beza’s 1598 edition of the Textus Receptus, and the difference here is not textual but translational. The translators of the KJV faithfully captured the figurative intent of ἐκένωσεν with the phrase “made Himself of no reputation,” while the translators of Modern Bibles, influenced by the interpretive tendencies of modern scholarship and the Critical Text tradition (NA-28) built upon Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, rendered it as “emptied Himself.” This choice shifts the meaning from humility to the false implication that Christ divested Himself of His divine nature.
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I know you asked this of Cam, but I'll pipe in just briefly: How you can know how to interpret the OT is by viewing the OT through the lens of the New which is totally logical under the scheme of Progressive Revelation. The OT is a budding flower; whereas the NT is the flower in its full bloom beauty.
Select Modern Bibles subtly teach Calvinism. (1) Psalms 139:16 in Modern bibles say that all the days were ordained for me (See NIV, BSB, NASB, AMP, NET) (2) In Revelation 22:17 with the ESV, NASB, LSB, AMP, NET, it removes the word “freely”. ESV and LSB are Calvinist favorites. (3) In the ESV, 1 Peter 2:8 talks about Calvinism in the fact that the wicked stumble at the word as they were destined to do. (4) In Acts 26:14 with the NLT, the Lord tells Paul that it is useless for him to fight against His will. (5) Luke 2:14 in the NIV says, “and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.” Instead of “and on earth peace, good will toward men.” (KJV).
In other words, this tells me that there is an agenda within Modern Scholarship to change the Bible. These verses never read this way in the most commonly used English Bible, the King James Bible, which remained the standard for hundreds of years before the popularity of the Modern Bible Movement arose in the 1980s. The KJV was written in 1600s English, and so certain words like "ordain" does not carry the modern understanding as we would understand it today.
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In other words, this tells me that there is an agenda within Modern Scholarship to change the Bible. These verses never read this way in the most commonly used English Bible, the King James Bible, which remained the standard for hundreds of years before the popularity of the Modern Bible Movement arose in the 1980s. The KJV was written in 1600s English, and so certain words like "ordain" does not carry the modern understanding as we would understand it today.
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As I have on many occasions m, however when where in disagreement over every aspect of faith it's can't be the case that we can take this moral ground.
There are some beliefs that are highly contentious in Christianity, such as man having free will in there falling condition. Which as you know takes a long old discussion to go over every aspect of his will.
Then like you rightly suggest there are people who are not of sound doctrine, so what do you.
Well one thing I did do was to test the spirit to see if they had had personal issue with faith. And it took many attempts before he opened up to finally admit he was offended.
So then your In a discussion where you can start to reason but then boom another issues arises and your back to square 1,
Threads like these just have to run there course,
I remember the first time I saw the ESV in a Christian bookstore. I felt a dark presence of evil surrounding it.
This was before I knew anything about the many serious doctrinal changes it contained.
Once again, the ESV and LSB are favorites among Calvinists, and they subtly promote Calvinistic theology within their pages.
Calvinists have also infiltrated churches secretly and this is clearly not honorable.
Free will choice concerning God can be seen in many verses of the Bible, but this must be twisted or changed in order to make Calvinism work. In short, verses that sound like they are teaching free will cannot be understood plainly according to the Calvinist.
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This was before I knew anything about the many serious doctrinal changes it contained.
Once again, the ESV and LSB are favorites among Calvinists, and they subtly promote Calvinistic theology within their pages.
Calvinists have also infiltrated churches secretly and this is clearly not honorable.
Free will choice concerning God can be seen in many verses of the Bible, but this must be twisted or changed in order to make Calvinism work. In short, verses that sound like they are teaching free will cannot be understood plainly according to the Calvinist.
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Adam was only type of christ because he bore sin, but not in the same way as Christ, Christ bore the sins of the world on his shoulders,
And Paul's writings are open for interpretation, especially since it states he was the last adam, it should of stated the lord was not born of the mud, like your mud that keeps getting stickier and stickier
Adam translates to made from mud he was a man created from the earth called Adam, where as Christ was born of his seed
It's not as bad as it looks sometimes to m, both sides have been witty, but there is one or two that are witless
Or as my new Aussie friend would say @OLDBUTNEW who became my friend after we stoned each other would say, pommie twits
If Calvinism were true, the scenario would go something like this:
And as Saul journeyed toward Damascus, there shone about him a light from heaven, and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying,
“Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?”
And he said,
“Who art Thou?”
And the Lord said,
“I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.”
Then Saul, incredulous, said,
“Nay, I believe thee not, and I will continue to hunt down Christians like dogs”
And the Lord answerd,
"I am the risen Lord Jesus."
Paul answered,
"No, I do not believe thee."
And the Lord answered,
“Enough! You will now do my bidding! Your mind and heart are belong to me now! Do as I say!”
Thereupon straightway the old man of Saul was brought to naught.
And he was stricken and humble, and the persecutor became the preacher.
However, no Bible actually says anything like this, though.
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B
Blue155
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*INCOMING!!* This a PSA: Even though we disagree, we all have one thing in common. Farts. That’s right. Farts. We all fart. Fart on, everyone!
And always remember— If ya smell it, ya dealt it!
Peace!
And always remember— If ya smell it, ya dealt it!
Peace!