Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Question:

Is free will different than freedom of choice when God grants us something to choose about?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

ok m, we concur lol.
Mutual acceptance occurs upon pollination m, (transformation of the heart)

But how about before then when the Gods sting is traveling down the stigma of your internal vine that leads to your seed m in your heart

Is there mutual acceptance then ?

Or could it be there's some sticky moments

well ... if we're going by the "pollination" analogy ... there is no "self pollination" going on. The bees are analogous to faithful believers preaching God's Word ... if and when the gospel of Christ is accurately presented and believed, God promises salvation.

for those who hear the gospel of Christ and suppress the truth in unrighteousness, no salvation.


Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

 

[Genez]

Just had my first anniversary as a cchat member friend, i naively created this thread when a newbie.
Won't make that mistake again, there are genuine, spiritual discussions on the Bible discussion forum for sure. However, there also are pretty malicious trolls who just spew bile and disrupt genuine discussion.

It's coming from both sides.
And, the person you just posted is not innocent either.

We are in spiritual warfare.

 

[bytheblood]

Adam indubitably demonstrated his free will in Genesis 3. Satan likewise in Job 1 & 2....

Adam chose to sin (a wrong choice) of his own free will.....WHILE HE WAS SINLESS AND PERFECT in full fellowship with God.

And THEN, Adam chose to do the RIGHT THING.....by preventing Eve from eating from the tree of life, and refusing to eat from the tree of life himself AFTER HE FELL. And then did the RIGHT THING by testifying TRUTHFULLY (as did the Woman) at the trial of Satan.

While I agree that man has free will, " pick up your cross daily ", I have a question. I read that the flaming sword prevented Adam and Eve from partaking of the tree of life and find no mention of Adam preventing Eve from partaking of the tree of life. Enlighten me, please.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The tree of life was like manna; it had to be consumed regularly. Once they were cut off from it, they eventually died. The idea that Adam and Eve never ate of that tree is untenable.

 

[Jordon]

well ... if we're going by the "pollination" analogy ... there is no "self pollination" going on. The bees are analogous to faithful believers preaching God's Word ... if and when the gospel of Christ is accurately presented and believed, God promises salvation.

for those who hear the gospel of Christ and suppress the truth in unrighteousness, no salvation.


Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

For believers it's all honey from the bumble bee inside, and believing should have a good healthy stigma full of grace

But what about the bee looking for pollen . In a place where the stigma is highly stigmatising void and empty of Gods word. A place where the seed is not producing any good nectar m.

How could that little bee help that poor little flower produce pollen, well this is where cross pollination comes in to play by mutual acceptance, but theres a snag, the seed is not only void of any of God's active living pollen, it's dormant m.

How could the life giving bee inject its life giving pollen with acceptance m.


Someone has to give something first m. What could it be

 

[LifelongLearner]

It's coming from both sides.
And, the person you just posted is not innocent either.

We are in spiritual warfare.

You are a protagonist, not a victim Genez but think you're more easily led than malicious. Using someone else to excuse your own stupid behaviour isn't a good look either.

 

[Genez]

The tree of life was like manna; it had to be consumed regularly. Once they were cut off from it, they eventually died. The idea that Adam and Eve never ate of that tree is untenable.

Good point!

 

[Gpianolf]

While I agree that man has free will, " pick up your cross daily ", I have a question. I read that the flaming sword prevented Adam and Eve from partaking of the tree of life and find no mention of Adam preventing Eve from partaking of the tree of life. Enlighten me, please.

I don’t know if this will answer your question or not but the Lord prevented them from eating of the tree of life BECAUSE they had eaten from the tree of knowledge which was the first sin. If they had then eaten from the tree of life they would have lived eternally in their sin without a chance to to be made right again. So God saved them from eternal damnation showing them grace when He had every right as the Creator to end their lives right then and there. He didn’t. He clothed them and protected them from spending an eternity separated from Him. I hope this makes sense… I’m usually bad at explaining things. Haha.

 

[Rufus]

But, the disciples were already saved.

It is about man's status before he is saved that I was referring to.

And I was saved positionally in Christ before time began by God's sovereign. My destiny was to be free FROM/OF this evil world that is under the power of the devil. And, of course, God's salvific decree in eternity for me was fulfilled in time and space.

 

[Rufus]

I am saying no such thing.

We are to verify ultimately with the Bible.
But, never to solely depend upon the Bible alone, as you were telling us to do.

Good, well-studied, teachers will be able to show us what certain words, or sayings, meant when written in the original languages. Meanings that a mere translation will not be able to convey when one is reading a translation for yourself.

So, these "good, well studied teachers", who are fallible and finite, are superior to the precious gift of the Holy Spirit who was given to the Church for several reasons, including teaching and enlightening?

Also, while I'm not a student of any of the bible's original languages, nonetheless I subscribe wholeheartedly to the Reformed concept of Analogy of Faith, that is to say that scripture validates/interprets/explains itself. This is why Biblical Theology is extremely important, as is relying on multiple bible translations which serve as checks against each other, learning how to do inductive studies, etc. Besides, I don't see any commands in scripture for anyone to learn the original languages. But what I do see is that we are to study scripture and handle the Word carefully, reverently and respectfully.

P.S. The Jewish corrupt religious leaders of Christ's day were also "good, well studied teachers" -- so THEY thought.

 

[Rufus]

Good point!

Especially, since the nonsense CRFTD stated cannot be proved in scripture. And that's exactly the kind of horse manure you FWers love -- when you can just make stuff up inside your cobweb-filled attics that sounds good to you.

 

[Rufus]

While I agree that man has free will, " pick up your cross daily ", I have a question. I read that the flaming sword prevented Adam and Eve from partaking of the tree of life and find no mention of Adam preventing Eve from partaking of the tree of life. Enlighten me, please.

The solution is easy upon careful exegesis of the Genesis post-Fall narrative. In a nutshell, God clearly saved Eve per his decree to the Serpent in Gen 3:15. Adam is as conspicuously absent from this passage as Eve is in 3:22-24. And for the record, I don't believe the "tree of life" contained any substance in it that would impart spiritual life, anymore than I believe that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is what literally gave A&E such knowledge; for their disobedience did that. Both trees are most likely symbolic representations.

 

[Genez]

You are a protagonist, not a victim Genez but think you're more easily led than malicious. Using someone else to excuse your own stupid behaviour isn't a good look either.

This is how it happens.
Just like you did.

I simply said there is no innocent party here.

Just look at what you said here!

Using someone else to excuse your own stupid behaviour isn't a good look either

You really are in no position to complain.

 

[Genez]

Especially, since the nonsense CRFTD stated cannot be proved in scripture. And that's exactly the kind of horse manure you FWers love -- when you can just make stuff up inside your cobweb-filled attics that sounds good to you.

In Judaism, "Tree of Life" (Hebrew: etz chaim) is a metaphor for the Torah, as well as a term for a scroll where the Torah is written, and a symbol for something that provides everlasting life or spiritual nourishment. Adam and Eve were originally able to eat from it to live forever, but after their exile from Eden, they could no longer access it. However, the New Testament book of Revelation suggests that those who overcome will be granted the ability to eat from the tree again.

 

[Jordon]

Scripture tells us the lusts of the flesh affect us by drawing our attention away from God to our own selves.

If we would recognize the lust of the flesh for what it is ... just a distraction ... and not allow ourselves to be drawn away, eventually, the lusts of the flesh become less and less tantalizing. We can then acknowledge them for what they are ... deceitful lusts (Eph 4:22) ... bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5) ... then we just might be ready to engage in the spiritual battle raging in our day and time.





We do not have to dwell on every thought that comes to mind. If a thought comes to mind which is designed to draw us away, we can cast that thought away and continue to dwell on the things of God.

Colossians 3:1-4

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

... patiently waiting ...

.

I wonder if the lusts of the flesh could also so be the free will of the flesh m.

Sound pretty much like the flesh has a will of it's own, what would you say to that m.

But going back to bees m,.did you know that when it comes to bees m and they senses that the queen be is no longer producing little bees.

Did you know that many many bees will not know, and.its also those bees that are the king guardian bees protecting her.

Then what happens is some bees will fight to the death to get her, The bees.will say,

to bee or not bee as many die trying to get to her. But there job is to replace her.


I just wonder do you think the father is also in some ways,. this way ? In the case of, to bee or not bee as in what he wants for you m.

 

[Jordon]

Question:

Is free will different than freedom of choice when God grants us something to choose about?

No Because Gods choices has his active will planted in his choice.

If your talking about your choice.
It's only as free as you think it is, if your ignoring his choice.

If you choose his choice he may even wake you up from your bed.

Because no doubt God will say you've made your own bed, if you've made a wrong choice before hand.

 

[Magenta]

Especially, since the nonsense CRFTD stated cannot be proved in scripture. And that's exactly the kind of horse manure you FWers love -- when you can just make stuff up inside your cobweb-filled attics that sounds good to you.

We are to take away from that proposed fantasy that to be consumed regularly means at least once in every 800 years. LOL.

 

[Genez]

No Because Gods choices has his active will planted in his choice.

If your talking about your choice.
It's only as free as you think it is, if your ignoring his choice.

If you choose his choice he may even wake you up from your bed.

Because no doubt God will say you've made your own bed, if you've made a wrong choice before hand.

God's Choice?

God chose out from all the people that he knew would believe?
Only some... to be the bride of Christ.
That is what we have been chosen for!

For he chose when we are to be born and to believe.
Which is during the Church age - to make us the Bride.

But, He does not choose who is to believe, and who is not to believe.

To say He chooses who is to believe, and who is not to believe?
Is to make God heartless and cruel.

For He could have just as easily chosen someone destined to Hell, to believe in that case.

We need to be logical and make sense.

 

[Jordon]

The main point Of discussion @reneweddaybyday was what would have happend if Adam and eve had not have sinned and eaten free from the tree of life.

Is it possible they would have been pollinated. .