Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!' From Ezekiel 33 v 11 plus Lamentations 3 v 32-33 Even if He causes grief, He will show compassion according to His abundant loving devotion. For He does not willingly afflict or grieve the sons of men.

 

[Blue155]

I thought it was very productive.

If you have something you can exercise it, if you not possess something you cannot exercise it.

If you were talking about "free will" you should have said so, because actually I agree.

Why be vague.

Easy peasy

How much longer are you wanting to argue this?

 

[Rufus]

I never doubted for a moment.
I know his "shtick" I feel sorry for his congregation but I guess that is their choice.

Did Jesus ever call babies good in his unqualified statement in Mk 10:18?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

how can a person still sin once saved

short answer ... the born again believer sins because he or she is drawn away from God through the lusts of the flesh ...

James 1:12-15

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Please note that it is not a sin to be tempted. In fact, the one who endures the temptation without falling into sin is said to be blessed (James 1:12).

The sin occurs when we turn away from God by following the lust of the flesh ... we leave our abode with God ... to go carry out the lust.

If and when we sin, the moment we realize we have left our safe haven, we are to turn back to God, confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

"how can a person still sin once saved"

Well the obvious answer is they have less of a chance

right ... the born again believer is equipped to overcome the temptation ... doesn't mean we always will ... and God knows this (He knows our frame ... He remembers that we are dust – Psalm 103:14).

To the next point, in the garden of eden, did God prevent them from eating from the tree of life because instead of the Commandment to obey him, entering their seed, disobedience to God entered there seed.

After Adam and Eve sinned, they were expelled from the garden of Eden ... Gen 3:22 tells us lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ... in that fallen state.

Was there seed in the process of being pollinated in the garden, like how the bees pollinate the flowers, with there sting m, remember him, haha, did you know he sang a song called the Lazarus heart, I believe that was a Catholic thing at the time to. But you cant blame him seeing as half of England schools are devided into protestant and catholic. Something seriously wrong there m. It's what you call promoting religious nut cases m.

Yes, I know he sang that song ... he was raised Catholic ... he believes in God ... he wrote a song that if he ever lost faith in [God?] there would be nothing left for him to do ... he never really defined what "you" was ... hope/pray we see him in new heaven/new earth.

What do you think could have happened to there seed if the commandment to obey him entered there seed , could it have been pollinated and then they could have even ate of the tree of life.

Because God only prevented them eating from the tree of life after the disobedience entered there seed.

If we look how bees pollinate by his design would you say that's God's will for you m.

Does the flower open it's buds to pollination

yes ... God prevented them after they sinned. And immediately after they sinned, God gave promise of the Messiah ... God has never left mankind without a promise of His Messiah ... during OT times ... the promise of His first coming (Gen 3:15).

After He was crucified ... the promise of the resurrection (John 2:19).

After He ascended ... the promise of His return (Acts 1:11).

As far as your bees and pollination analogy ... if a person is born again, he or she is born again only one time ... the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit within the born again one is the sanctification process whereby God works within the believer to remove that which is not conducive to spiritual growth and maturity.

The issue is whether we let go of what it is that God wants to remove from us ... that which hinders our growth ... and grab onto what God wants us to have/know ... that which is conducive to our spiritual growth.

.

 

[Jordon]

short answer ... the born again believer sins because he or she is drawn away from God through the lusts of the flesh ...

James 1:12-15

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Please note that it is not a sin to be tempted. In fact, the one who endures the temptation without falling into sin is said to be blessed (James 1:12).

The sin occurs when we turn away from God by following the lust of the flesh ... we leave our abode with God ... to go carry out the lust.

If and when we sin, the moment we realize we have left our safe haven, we are to turn back to God, confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

.

hi can a man sin once saved was a figurative speech on my part, I had no intension of asking the question lol, I was more concerned by people blaming there sins they commit over and calling it the same freewill in which they choose to be saved by m.

As the will of the man lives in the flesh,

Ideas come first then will drives the idea, it's the ideas that's are free m,. and the mind can't control what it thinks at the best of times, only in routine does it so,.

If you don't have a daily routine,.ie just sit there all day and watch the TV your thoughts will be controlled by the TV. Your wil. will get fed up of that or let it happen m, again being controlled by your thoughts.

Freedom of thought m is part of man's dual complexity. Along with the will of his nature. Governed by what ever he sees hears and knows k.

The second side of dual complexity in people is Gods active permissive will m

 

[reneweddaybyday]

so the lesson is @reneweddaybyday if you watch the video pollination from God is called mutualism

how do you understand mutualism in the God / mankind relationship?

.

 

[sawdust]

Yep, we certainly have choice but free will involves unilateral capability to execute our choices.

According to you but not according to God. God's definition is the ability to choose within the limitations He has created us. Our will was never given the creative powers you want to attribute to them in order to justify your position.

 

[Jordon]

how do you understand mutualism in the God / mankind relationship?

.

mutual acceptance m

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Because we are not yet in our resurrection body!
We can still sin if we so choose, in weakness.

But, here is God's provision for when we do.

If we confess/acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​

It is between you and God.
No one else!
Just acknowledge your sin to God, and He is faithful, and will always forgive.

It is nobody's business but you and God.

yep ... and the sooner we realize we've left our abode, the better.

I remember a time when my kids were a little over 2 weeks old (twins) ... we took them to my in-laws for dinner. The kids were good, no problem. But when we returned home and I put them in their crib, I watched them relax as they recognized they were back home in their bed.

I remember telling myself to always remember what I saw in those 2 week old babies ... I prayed to God and asked Him to help me see/recognize when I turn from Him so that I would quickly return to Him to nestle in His loving arms. God is so faithful to us.

.

 

[Rufus]

According to you but not according to God. God's definition is the ability to choose within the limitations He has created us. Our will was never given the creative powers you want to attribute to them in order to justify your position.

So then...according to what you just wrote, you must reply with a resounding "NO" to the rhetorical question asked in Jer 13:23a, correct?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

hi can a man sin once saved was a figurative speech on my part, I had no intension of asking the question lol, I was more concerned by people blaming there sins they commit over and calling it the same freewill in which they choose to be saved by m.

As the will of the man lives in the flesh,

Scripture tells us the lusts of the flesh affect us by drawing our attention away from God to our own selves.

If we would recognize the lust of the flesh for what it is ... just a distraction ... and not allow ourselves to be drawn away, eventually, the lusts of the flesh become less and less tantalizing. We can then acknowledge them for what they are ... deceitful lusts (Eph 4:22) ... bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5) ... then we just might be ready to engage in the spiritual battle raging in our day and time.

Ideas come first then will drives the idea, it's the ideas that's are free m,. and the mind can't control what it thinks at the best of times, only in routine does it so,.

If you don't have a daily routine,.ie just sit there all day and watch the TV your thoughts will be controlled by the TV. Your wil. will get fed up of that or let it happen m, again being controlled by your thoughts.

Freedom of thought m is part of man's dual complexity. Along with the will of his nature. Governed by what ever he sees hears and knows k.

The second side of dual complexity in people is Gods active permissive will m

We do not have to dwell on every thought that comes to mind. If a thought comes to mind which is designed to draw us away, we can cast that thought away and continue to dwell on the things of God.

Colossians 3:1-4

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

... patiently waiting ...

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

mutual acceptance m

I wasn't sure if you were talking about before a person is born again ... or after a person is born again.

by "mutual acceptance" I presume this would be after a person is born again?

God tells us we are workers together with Him (1 Cor 3:9) ... which I think is totally awesome! He wants us to work with Him ... yay! ... Sometimes we only turn to Him when the going gets tough. He wants to share in our joy and rejoicing as well. I wonder how many of us include God when we are rejoicing?

I try to remember to include God in the little stuff ... the big stuff ... the sad stuff ... the happy stuff ... and you know what? every time I turn to Him, He's right there! waiting to share in whatever I've got going on in my life which brings even greater joy or peace of mind ... what a great and loving Heavenly Father!!!

.

 

[Jackson129]

I agree that the threat of judgment upon these nations led some to form alliances with Israel. Now tell me how the inhabitants of Jericho were evangelized.

I said they were judged.

 

[Genez]

But unlike YOU, I'm not OF this world anymore than Christ was or his disciples were
(Jn 17:6, 16).

But, the disciples were already saved.

It is about man's status before he is saved that I was referring to.

 

[sawdust]

Are you saying that to mean, the Bible?
You are living proof that it does not work that way.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, ​

and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ​

ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-12​

It does not say....

And He Himself gave us the Bible (which is a translation with some misleading ​

readings and mistakes) to be read, and subjectively abused by unstable religious people.​

......

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at that.

 

[Genez]

You sound more and more like the elitist Pharisees, scribes and lawyers of Christ's day who insisted that the people listen to them. And then later on in history, the Catholic Church with its "priests" adopted the philosophy. Read Ps 119 someday. But if that Psalm is too much for you to handle then try Mat 4:4; Lk 4:4. And then follow the example of the Bereans who didn't blindly take the word of third party teachers/preachers (Act 17:11).

I am saying no such thing.

We are to verify ultimately with the Bible.
But, never to solely depend upon the Bible alone, as you were telling us to do.

Good, well-studied, teachers will be able to show us what certain words, or sayings, meant when written in the original languages. Meanings that a mere translation will not be able to convey when one is reading a translation for yourself.

 

[Jordon]

I wasn't sure if you were talking about before a person is born again ... or after a person is born again.

by "mutual acceptance" I presume this would be after a person is born again?

God tells us we are workers together with Him (1 Cor 3:9) ... which I think is totally awesome! He wants us to work with Him ... yay! ... Sometimes we only turn to Him when the going gets tough. He wants to share in our joy and rejoicing as well. I wonder how many of us include God when we are rejoicing?

I try to remember to include God in the little stuff ... the big stuff ... the sad stuff ... the happy stuff ... and you know what? every time I turn to Him, He's right there! waiting to share in whatever I've got going on in my life which brings even greater joy or peace of mind ... what a great and loving Heavenly Father!!!

.

ok m, we concur lol.
Mutual acceptance occurs upon pollination m, (transformation of the heart)

But how about before then when the Gods sting is traveling down the stigma of your internal vine that leads to your seed m in your heart

Is there mutual acceptance then ?

Or could it be there's some sticky moments

 

[HeIsHere]

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at that.

Yeah, kinda of a constant thing on this thread.

 

[LifelongLearner]

You do realize I normally have you on ignore?

I showed you Scripture and you want to argue with me about it. Not interested.

If you disagree with the Scriptures posted just say so instead of pretending I am saying things I am not.

I never denied having been part of the world before being called out of the world.

I have said so many times. Your whole premise around this is ridiculous to the extreme.

Probably why I normally ignore you. You want to make non-points just to argue.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

Just had my first anniversary as a cchat member friend, i naively created this thread when a newbie.
Won't make that mistake again, there are genuine, spiritual discussions on the Bible discussion forum for sure. However, there also are pretty malicious trolls who just spew bile and disrupt genuine discussion.