Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

In other words...you can't. Like I said: pride and dishonesty.

"If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker".

 

[Genez]

It's the new covenant. As such, it is for the church.

What you are doing is like saying the Words of Moses to the Jews was a message to the Church.

Those words of Ezekiel was spoken to Israel long before the Church age began.

“Therefore say to the Israelites, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ​

​

It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake ​

of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. ​

I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, ​

the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, ​

declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.​

​

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land. (That was not directed to the Church at all!)​

​

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities ​

and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from ​

you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you ​

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."​

Note!

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land."​

That can not forced to apply to meaning the Church!
For when Christ returns?
He will regather all the scattered Jews from all over the earth and gather them back to Jerusalem and Israel.

​

 

[Cameron143]

"If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker".

I can identify the liar at the table.

 

[Cameron143]

What you are doing is like saying the Words of Moses to the Jews was a message to the Church.

Those words of Ezekiel was spoken to Israel long before the Church age began.

“Therefore say to the Israelites, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ​

​

It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake ​

of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. ​

I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, ​

the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, ​

declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.​

​

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land. (That was not directed to the Church at all!)​

​

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities ​

and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from ​

you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you ​

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."​

Note!

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land."​

That can not forced to apply to meaning the Church!
For when Christ returns?
He will regather all the scattered Jews from all over the earth and gather them back to Jerusalem and Israel.

​

And that goes for all the prophets?

 

[Magenta]

There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

@cv5, when the prophets such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc etc were prophesying to Israel, were they looking toward and prophesying about the New Testament/church age?

Indubitably. That prophesied holy nation and kingdom of priests already exists

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the ecellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9​

 

[cv5]

@cv5, when the prophets such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc etc were prophesying to Israel, were they looking toward and prophesying about the New Testament/church age?

The Nation Israel. All of the House of Jacob corporately. A nation with their own borders and Temple. That's the end time distinction.

BTW look out your window. The "times of the gentiles" are now over.

You would think that Israel being so abruptly created would raise some eyebrows. But nope....

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[Jordon]

It does not say, God so loves the world. (present tense)

It says, God so "loved" the world (past tense).

Why?

When God the Son created mankind in eternity past in his mind?
He loved tremendously what He intended man to become and to be.

But, because God needed to allow for the fall of man?
God agreed within Himself (Trinity) to allow man to fall.

In doing so?

Fallen man became the perfect teaching tool for showing angels what would happen if fallen angels allowed to stay in heaven as they had been before. They need to be shown and to learn what lying and evil thinking would have produced in God's kingdom if the fallen angels were allowed to remain in heaven forever. They needed to be shown that the evil needed to be judged and isolated away.

In the very beginning of Satan's fall...

The angels who remained with God were naive. They could not understand what the fall of Satan and his angels would cause in their lives. For at that time, evil was a foreign concept to them having lived in innocence and love. For that was the only reality that all of God's angels had had only known.

Fallen man became God's ace teaching tool to show His angels why it was an absolute must why Satan and his angels can not be allowed to return to live among them as they had once known.

Because God's angels did not fall? They had maintained a naivete and purity in their love for all angels.
Which now needed to be hurt and disappointed as to learn why evil can not be allowed to coexist forever with them forever

To solve that problem with the pure angels who had been ignorant of what evil is?
God allowed for the fall of man to set and example for them to study evil and to learn from.

And, because, God loved so much what he had created man to become?
So much so? (God so loved the world)..
That He gave his only begotten Son, as His means to get as many souls back for Himself which was to be accomplished through the Cross.
By allowing for the fall of man's behavior? To be showing the fallen angels that they are destroyers of God's peace. Destroyers, as seen by those people who reject salvation, and believers who reject God's will for their lives.

Besides being an object of God's Love?

Man in his present fallen state is being a terrific teaching tool for angels.
To enable them learn and to finally understand why God had to severely judge their once beloved Lucifer and his angels.

That was not exactly catechism class.

grace and peace!

why Did God allow the fall to happen ? he gave a commandment to obey him before the fall,
It's simple to understand God's breath of life lives in mankind created with his will where he makes the rules with his life.

He declared to man if you disobey me, your punishment for sin will be your nature and your seed will get corrupted which it did.

What hes actually saying is sin corrupts the seed of man and will need new life to overcome the power that sin holds in mans seed, which is death .

Get it for goodness sake man.

Quit saying God allows sin.

 

[Believer08]

The Nation Israel. All of the House of Jacob corporately. A nation with their own borders and Temple. That's the end time distinction.

BTW look out your window. The "times of the gentiles" are now over.

You would think that Israel being so abruptly created would raise some eyebrows. But nope....

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That verse sounds similar to Romans 11:25

 

[cv5]

Indubitably. That prophesied holy nation and kingdom of priests already exists

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the ecellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9​

The Church is not Israel and never will be. And never was for that matter.
However, there are Israelites who constitute the Church. It's a one way street.....until the rapture. THEN phase two.....Gods redemption of the elder brother.

The Nation Israel = the House of Jacob and consists of his ethnic seed. Crummy gentiles like me are DEFINITELY not Israelites and never ever will be

 

[cv5]

That verse sounds similar to Romans 11:25

Yes. Good catch. However, the "fullness of the gentiles" is US....the Church. And then BOOM the rapture.

See....it's all a wonderful knit together prophetic tapestry

And poor @Cameron143 little buddy fails to understand it's magnificent truths.

Rom 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Church is not Israel and never will be. And never was for that matter.
However, there are Israelites who constitute the Church. It's a one way street.....until the rapture. THEN phase two.....Gods redemption of the elder brother.

The Nation Israel = the House of Jacob and consists of his ethnic seed. Crummy gentiles like me are DEFINITELY not Israelites and never ever will be

Oh OK you're into the rapture thing. Nevermind...

 

[Believer08]

Indubitably. That prophesied holy nation and kingdom of priests already exists

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the ecellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9​

Could you give me some verses where a prophet is doing that? I’ve been trying to understand prophets, whenever they are talking about pouring out the Spirit, dwelling safely, Israel, etc etc, to be able to connect them to the New Testament.

 

[Magenta]

Could you give me some verses where a prophet is doing that? I’ve been trying to understand prophets, whenever they are talking about pouring out the Spirit, dwelling safely, Israel, etc etc, to be able to connect them to the New Testament.

Joel 2 verses 28 plus 32a I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.

 

[cv5]

Could you give me some verses where a prophet is doing that? I’ve been trying to understand prophets, whenever they are talking about pouring out the Spirit, dwelling safely, Israel, etc etc, to be able to connect them to the New Testament.

It all works and works FLAWLESSLY. No gaps no holes no doubts.

If.....you understand it. And it takes decades of dedication and sweat equity....

 

[Magenta]

Acts 2 verse 17 (Joel 2 verse 28) ~ In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That verse sounds similar to Romans 11:25

The times of the gentiles will be fulfilled once the fullness of the gentiles enters into the body/temple of God and the mystery of God is complete at the 7th trumpet. Who are the fullness of the gentiles? Jacob prophesied that they are the seed of Ephraim/Israel. The natural seed of Israel was sown in death among the nations and raised out of the dead on the day of Pentecost when the holy spiritual nation of God was born from above by the spirit in Zion.

And his father [Jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know: he [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles. Genesis 48:19​

 

[Genez]

@cv5, when the prophets such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc etc were prophesying to Israel, were they looking toward and prophesying about the New Testament/church age?

They were prophesying about certain things that would so happen to take place during the Church age,
But, they were not prophesying that there was to be a Church age in itself.

Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking ​

in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. I have become ​

its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— ​

the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the ​

Lord’s people. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches ​

of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:24-27​

​

Because of prophesy, the Jews had been waiting for the Lord to establish His kingdom on earth for the Jews to flourish in.
The appearance of the Church shocked and took everyone by surprise.
For no prophesy pointed to the Church age specifically.
The Church was a like hidden secret weapon, that God launched on the enemies of God after the Cross took place.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Could you give me some verses where a prophet is doing that? I’ve been trying to understand prophets, whenever they are talking about pouring out the Spirit, dwelling safely, Israel, etc etc, to be able to connect them to the New Testament.

The one I just quoted is the fulfillment of the first thing God said to Israel when they reached Mt Sinai.

And now if you will obey my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall become a special treasure to me above all the nations, for all the earth is Mine. And you shall become a kingdom of priests to me, a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel. Exodus 19:5-6​

​

Within 40 or so days they broke the covenant and that promise was deferred until the holy nation of God was born at Pentecost from above.

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the ecellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9​

​

If you want, start a thread on this and we'll go through every prophecy you want and I'll show how all of it has been fulfilled and is being fulfilled in Christ and his body

 

[cv5]

Oh OK you're into the rapture thing. Nevermind...

Friend, there is only one "end of the age" for the Church. And you are smack-dab in its final fleeting moments.

The stage is set for the anti-Christ beast system whether you believe it or not. The signs are literally everywhere. Right on cue. The 800lbs prophetic gorilla being the Nation Israel.....