Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[PennEd]

When the Christian teachers who lived during the first 3-4 centuries invented the term "free-will" they were did not mean that the will was entirely free from the influences of the world, the flesh, and the devil. They meant that we were not absolutely controlled by instinct or FATE which was the popular belief among religions of the times. As the Christian Apologist Justin Martyr wrote:

For not like other things, as trees and quadrupeds, which cannot act by choice, did God make man: for neither would he be worthy of reward or praise did he not of himself CHOOSE the good, but were created for this end; nor, if he were evil, would he be worthy of punishment, not being evil of himself, but being able to be nothing else than what he was made.
(Justin Martyr ~155AD – First Apology, Ch. 43 )

Justin also argued against fatalism, affirming that humans have genuine free will to choose good or evil. Moral responsibility and reward or punishment depend on this freedom, as people can change their behavior, which would be impossible if everything were predetermined.
(Justin Martyr ~155AD – First Apology, Ch. 43)

These teachers understood the difference between "having a choice" and "having free will" Being responsible for our choices (right or wrong) is dependent on having the ability to choose.

All this to say we are “mostly dead”, with just enough “life” to choose Christ or not.

Ignoring of course how crystal clear Scripture is that we ARE Spiritually dead UNTIL the Lord quickens us, we believe, and are born again.

 

[Jordon]

I'm an optimist who believes all things are possible with God.

I just got with 1 second of a world record at daytona with my new wheel m thanks be to God lol

It would have been half a second to if it hadn't of been for my entry at corner two

But im chuffed to bits lol never mastered Daytona the famous usa track until now. I'll soon be number one in the world in gran turismo 7 soon woopeee

 

[cv5]

Godly sorrow leads to repentance which leads to salvation

Still waiting for you to confess that your saved in his living hope m

Are you paying attention?
Don't you realize that your dear leader @Cameron143 has just declared that the Ezekiel 36 "new heart" phenomenon aka entry into the New Covenant does NOT require any legitimate repentance whatsoever? In fact he doubled down on his claim despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary....

Now get ready for the inevitable walk-backs, moving of the goalposts, vacuous denials and faux outrage.

 

[Jordon]

Acts 16
30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of God to him together with all who were in his house.

you say you believe m but are you just repeating

This is Christian chat where your suppose to share

What's so Diffacult about you speaking for yourself and confessing that you believe what the lord says m

I'm not asking much

Do you believe Godly sorrow leads to repentance then salvation , or would you rather answer to someone talking to you about Calvinism

 

[cv5]

It's like a drunk going back to the bottle

Or crack pipe....

 

[Jordon]

Are you paying attention?
Don't you realize that your dear leader @Cameron143 has just declared that the Ezekiel 36 "new heart" phenomenon aka entry into the New Covenant does NOT require any legitimate repentance whatsoever? In fact he doubled down on his claim despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary....

Now get ready for the inevitable walk-backs, moving of the goalposts, vacuous denials and faux outrage.

actually he liked my post that godly sorrow leads to repentance then salvation m, so no your wrong again .

And you have yet to confess this too

 

[cv5]

Did you refer to context, comparison of various verses, textual analysis, semantics >>> no you did not

He never does. Nor do his compatriots. Replies are devoid of scholarship, Biblical relevance, accuracy, they are shoddy, ill-conceived, irrational, nonsensical, nor are they made in good faith.

It's all an greasy hustle and con job with a disastrously bad ending IMO.

 

[Cameron143]

Are you paying attention?
Don't you realize that your dear leader @Cameron143 has just declared that the Ezekiel 36 "new heart" phenomenon aka entry into the New Covenant does NOT require any legitimate repentance whatsoever? In fact he doubled down on his claim despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary....

Now get ready for the inevitable walk-backs, moving of the goalposts, vacuous denials and faux outrage.

Show me where I made the claim.

 

[Jordon]

He never does. Nor do his compatriots. Replies are devoid of scholarship, Biblical relevance, accuracy, they are shoddy, ill-conceived, irrational, nonsensical, nor are they made in good faith.

It's all an greasy hustle and con job with a disastrously bad ending IMO.

typical of you this holding your intelligence above others.

 

[cv5]

That was not even written for the Church.
It was to the future Jews who will be living during the Millennium.

This is not gobblygook. So don't cop out.

Here it is in its context!

Ezekiel 36:22-27​

​

​

“Therefore say to the Israelites, (not for the church)'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ​

It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake ​

of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. ​

I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, ​

the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, ​

declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.​

​

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land. (When Christ returns to set up His 1000 year reign in the new Israel).​

​

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities ​

and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from ​

you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you ​

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."​

The new spirit He will place in them will be their human spirit that is given at regeneration!
The believers today received a human spirit also when we believed!

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6​

That phenomena takes place in every dispensation of believers! OT saints did not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit like we do, which can cause us to become transformed into the character of Christ. OT saints could understand Scripture because they were given a human spirit. We having the Indwelling Holy Spirit can cause us to not only understand. But, also. To become more like Christ by transformation that comes from the Spirit.

Your citing of Ezekiel 36:26-27, that you used to try to make your point?
It was speaking specifically of the future of Israel, does not apply to us.

The new heart is the result of having been given a human spirit that makes us able to replace our old way of thinking with Scripture being understood to take its place.


You really could learn everything needed to understand to know how to live.
But you are having too much fun using the Word to win your position,
rather than being able to live the Word in the filling of the power of the Holy Spirit.

So be it.....

Of course you are absolutely correct.
All of this to say that the NATION ISRAEL, the House of Jacob, shall, AFTER REPENTANCE, enter into the New Covenant. Precisely as Jesus prophesied here:

Luk 13:34 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Yet dear leader @Cameron143 fails to comprehend any of this. None whatsoever. Not only that, I dare you to ask him about his "beliefs" regarding eschatology. Prepare to be mortified....

 

[Cameron143]

Show me where I made the claim.

What's wrong little buddy? You made a claim without evidence? You can't substantiate the claim? You could just admit your error.

 

[cv5]

Show me where I made the claim.

You are a known quantity little buddy.

"Now get ready for the inevitable walk-backs, moving of the goalposts, vacuous denials and faux outrage."

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Ezekiel 36:22-27“Therefore say to the Israelites, (not for the church)'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. (When Christ returns to set up His 1000 year reign in the new Israel).I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

This happened nearly 2000 years ago. Israel was gathered back in the land, John the baptist sprinkled clean water on them and a faithful remnant received a new heart and a new spirit. An unbelieving heart disregards this obvious fulfillment and projects it into the future.

 

[Cameron143]

Of course you are absolutely correct.
All of this to say that the NATION ISRAEL, the House of Jacob, shall, AFTER REPENTANCE, enter into the New Covenant. Precisely as Jesus prophesied here:

Luk 13:34 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Yet dear leader @Cameron143 fails to comprehend any of this. None whatsoever. Not only that, I dare you to ask him about his "beliefs" regarding eschatology. Prepare to be mortified....

You don't even recognize the new covenant. No wonder you struggle.

And my eschatology mirrors that of @HeIsHere, so just ask her.

 

[Cameron143]

You are a known quantity little buddy.

"Now get ready for the inevitable walk-backs, moving of the goalposts, vacuous denials and faux outrage."

You made a false claim and rather than admit your error, you double down. You are either too full of pride to admit your error or simply dishonest, or both.

 

[Genez]

IMO it is semantics.

God's Grace gift is offered to all. By His Grace it is offered equally to each and every individual who has ever lived.

Call it "freewill" or " a freed will"......He graciously offers it to ALL.......Freely.

It is a free offer and all have the privilege and opportunity to receive it.......Freewill seems to be a pretty good definition for it.

It does not say, God so loves the world. (present tense)

It says, God so "loved" the world (past tense).

Why?

When God the Son created mankind in eternity past in his mind?
He loved tremendously what He intended man to become and to be.

But, because God needed to allow for the fall of man?
God agreed within Himself (Trinity) to allow man to fall.

In doing so?

Fallen man became the perfect teaching tool for showing angels what would happen if fallen angels allowed to stay in heaven as they had been before. They need to be shown and to learn what lying and evil thinking would have produced in God's kingdom if the fallen angels were allowed to remain in heaven forever. They needed to be shown that the evil needed to be judged and isolated away.

In the very beginning of Satan's fall...

The angels who remained with God were naive. They could not understand what the fall of Satan and his angels would cause in their lives. For at that time, evil was a foreign concept to them having lived in innocence and love. For that was the only reality that all of God's angels had had only known.

Fallen man became God's ace teaching tool to show His angels why it was an absolute must why Satan and his angels can not be allowed to return to live among them as they had once known.

Because God's angels did not fall? They had maintained a naivete and purity in their love for all angels.
Which now needed to be hurt and disappointed as to learn why evil can not be allowed to coexist forever with them forever

To solve that problem with the pure angels who had been ignorant of what evil is?
God allowed for the fall of man to set and example for them to study evil and to learn from.

And, because, God loved so much what he had created man to become?
So much so? (God so loved the world)..
That He gave his only begotten Son, as His means to get as many souls back for Himself which was to be accomplished through the Cross.
By allowing for the fall of man's behavior? To be showing the fallen angels that they are destroyers of God's peace. Destroyers, as seen by those people who reject salvation, and believers who reject God's will for their lives.

Besides being an object of God's Love?

Man in his present fallen state is being a terrific teaching tool for angels.
To enable them learn and to finally understand why God had to severely judge their once beloved Lucifer and his angels.

That was not exactly catechism class.

grace and peace!

 

[cv5]

You made a false claim and rather than admit your error, you double down. You are either too full of pride to admit your error or simply dishonest, or both.

Why waste time on you when I could waste it on a perfectly good football game....

 

[cv5]

This happened nearly 2000 years ago. Israel was gathered back in the land, John the baptist sprinkled clean water on them and a faithful remnant received a new heart and a new spirit. An unbelieving heart disregards this obvious fulfillment and projects it into the future.

Conclusive. And concatenates with HUNDREDS of other prophecies. Hundreds. The Nation Israel, AFTER the tribulation, AFTER legitimate REPENTANCE, are recommissioned to their original mandate (that which they abandoned)....as a nation of priests and teachers to the gentiles. And this time (the millennium) they will not blow it and will serve the Lord faithfully.

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Cameron143]

Why waste time on you when I could waste it on a perfectly good football game....

In other words...you can't. Like I said: pride and dishonesty.

 

[Believer08]

@cv5, when the prophets such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc etc were prophesying to Israel, were they looking toward and prophesying about the New Testament/church age?