Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Believer08]

So you really don't believe what the Bible says but want to pretend you do and fool others into thinking you do. Got it.

No. I understand what you believe, but I really don’t believe in your Calvinistic understanding of what the Bible says, and I’d never want to pretend that I do believe in it, as that would make me a puppet, which I dare not want anyone to think that I am.

 

[the_seeker]

I believe so.

Maybe you are right about that, maybe not. I do not know.
Anyway, anyone here 100% sure we have a free will, can you document your claim ?

 

[bytheblood]

That is why He is our Saviour... because He could do in the flesh what we could not.

Praise the Lord for He is good His love endures forever

We must realize that Jesus, not for a millisecond, operated as God in His earthly ministry, even though He is. He limited Himself. If you do a study on Philippians 2:5-7, especially verse seven, He emptied Himself of some of His Godly attributes such as His Omniscience, He didn't know who would sit on His left or right, His Omnipresence, He had to walk or ride when He travelled, or His Omnipotence, when an angel came and " strengthened " Him in the garden of Gethsemane. He also said " the works I do shall YOU do also.' John 14:12. The one who caused us to have a sinful nature, Adam, was a man. The one who gave us a new nature, the " last Adam" (Jesus), also lived as a man in His first advent. To pay for our sins He had to be one after it's own kind. If He were operating as God in His earthly ministry He would not have to" pray to My Father, and He shall presently give ME more than twelve legions of angels ", Matt. 26:53, He would have just called them forth. He didn't pray for them because He knew His assignment, to fulfil righteousness.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Maybe you are right about that, maybe not. I do not know.
Anyway, anyone here 100% sure we have a free will, can you document your claim ?

No.

 

[Believer08]

If context does not matter to you, that is another you problem.

Man does have volition and makes choices, but this does not equate to having a will that is free.

People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.

Sure, context matters. It is odd how you believe(?) they had freewill on a matter, but not on the most important matter.

 

[Magenta]

In fact, we become BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, using our free will.

That is not how I became a Christian. God convicted me of sin, raised me to life from spiritual death, and drew me with loving kindness to the point where I became convinced of the Truth of God's revealed written Word and what it says of the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, the lover of my soul. Being convinced did not leave room for me making a choice to believe. I simply did, after years and years of running from Him in rebellion and defiance. Now I am grateful that He pursued me. To hear free willers talk, they are resentful of the mere thought that God would do anything that really proved His love for us. They say He forces things on us but not life. Too weird.

 

[cv5]

Freewill offering/offerings is mentioned in the Bible.

Strong’s Definitions
נְדָבָה nᵉdâbâh, ned-aw-baw'; from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:—free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering).

KJV Translation Count — Total: 26x
The KJV translates Strong's H5071 in the following manner: freewill offering (15x), offerings (9x), free offering (2x), freely (2x), willing offering (1x), voluntary offering (1x), plentiful (1x), voluntarily (1x), voluntary (1x), willing (1x), willingly (1x).

Outline of Biblical Usage
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon
STRONGS H5071:
Abbreviations
† נְדָבָה noun feminine voluntariness, freewill-offering; — absolute נ׳ Exodus 35:29 14 times; construct נִדְבַת Deuteronomy 16:10; plural נְדָבוֺת Amos 4:5; Psalm 68:10; נְדָבֹת Psalm 110:3; construct נִדְבוֺת Psalm 119:108; 2 Chronicles 31:14; suffix נִדְבֹתֶ֫יךָ Deuteronomy 12:7 4 times suffixes; —
1. voluntariness אֹהֲבֵם נְדָבָה Hosea 14:5 I (י׳) will love them freely; עַמְּךָ נְדָבֹת בְּיוֺם חֵילֶ֑ךָ Psalm 110:3 thy people will be (all) voluntariness in the day of thy host (be ready to volunteer, see BrMP 133); גֶּשֶׁם נדבות Psalm 68:10 generous (copious) rain; בנדבה Psalm 54:8 voluntarily, and adverb. accusative נדבה Deuteronomy 23:24 (see Dr.).
2. freewill, voluntary, offering:
a. including gifts used in erection and furnishing of tabernacle Exodus 35:29; Exodus 36:3 (P); for first temple 2 Chronicles 31:14, second Ezra 1:6; Ezra 8:28.
b. including עולה and שׁלמים Ezekiel 46:42; probably also Amos 4:5, נדבות פִי Psalm 119:108.
c. usually a זֶבַח for festival meals at Passover 2 Chronicles 35:8, Pentecost Deuteronomy 16:10, Tabernacles Ezra 3:5 (besides the ritual offerings); distinguished from נֶדֶר votive offering Leviticus 7:16; Numbers 15:3; Numbers 29:39 (P), Leviticus 22:18,21,23; Leviticus 23:38 (H), Deuteronomy 12:6,17. — (Verbs used are הביא נ׳ Exodus 35:29; Exodus 36:3; הקריב נ׳ Leviticus 22:18; עשׂה נ׳ Numbers 15:3; Ezekiel 46:12; נתן נ׳ Leviticus 23:38; Deuteronomy 16:10.)

 

[Genez]

Every human being, as God's image-bearers have desires! To deny that you never had desires when you were unsaved is to deny that you're a human being.

And I proved you wrong. The world God so loves and reconciled to himself is the world that is filled with Abraham's spiritual descendants.

Being in God's image simply means you are a living soul.

For, when man was created in God's image?

No human body existed yet.
It was male and female souls that were created in His image.
Souls that he created 'out from nothing.' [Hebrew- bara]

In contrast to the soul?

The body of Adam was first produced in the next chapter.
It was not created out from nothing, like his human soul was.
Instead, his body was molded and formed [Hebrew - jatsar] out from the created elements of the earth.

To be a soul? Is to have been created in God's image.
That soul which was created in God's image was breathed into the nostrils of Adam's body.

........

 

[Believer08]

Strong’s Definitions
נְדָבָה nᵉdâbâh, ned-aw-baw'; from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:—free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering).

KJV Translation Count — Total: 26x
The KJV translates Strong's H5071 in the following manner: freewill offering (15x), offerings (9x), free offering (2x), freely (2x), willing offering (1x), voluntary offering (1x), plentiful (1x), voluntarily (1x), voluntary (1x), willing (1x), willingly (1x).

Outline of Biblical Usage
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon
STRONGS H5071:
Abbreviations
† נְדָבָה noun feminine voluntariness, freewill-offering; — absolute נ׳ Exodus 35:29 14 times; construct נִדְבַת Deuteronomy 16:10; plural נְדָבוֺת Amos 4:5; Psalm 68:10; נְדָבֹת Psalm 110:3; construct נִדְבוֺת Psalm 119:108; 2 Chronicles 31:14; suffix נִדְבֹתֶ֫יךָ Deuteronomy 12:7 4 times suffixes; —
1. voluntariness אֹהֲבֵם נְדָבָה Hosea 14:5 I (י׳) will love them freely; עַמְּךָ נְדָבֹת בְּיוֺם חֵילֶ֑ךָ Psalm 110:3 thy people will be (all) voluntariness in the day of thy host (be ready to volunteer, see BrMP 133); גֶּשֶׁם נדבות Psalm 68:10 generous (copious) rain; בנדבה Psalm 54:8 voluntarily, and adverb. accusative נדבה Deuteronomy 23:24 (see Dr.).
2. freewill, voluntary, offering:
a. including gifts used in erection and furnishing of tabernacle Exodus 35:29; Exodus 36:3 (P); for first temple 2 Chronicles 31:14, second Ezra 1:6; Ezra 8:28.
b. including עולה and שׁלמים Ezekiel 46:42; probably also Amos 4:5, נדבות פִי Psalm 119:108.
c. usually a זֶבַח for festival meals at Passover 2 Chronicles 35:8, Pentecost Deuteronomy 16:10, Tabernacles Ezra 3:5 (besides the ritual offerings); distinguished from נֶדֶר votive offering Leviticus 7:16; Numbers 15:3; Numbers 29:39 (P), Leviticus 22:18,21,23; Leviticus 23:38 (H), Deuteronomy 12:6,17. — (Verbs used are הביא נ׳ Exodus 35:29; Exodus 36:3; הקריב נ׳ Leviticus 22:18; עשׂה נ׳ Numbers 15:3; Ezekiel 46:12; נתן נ׳ Leviticus 23:38; Deuteronomy 16:10.)

??

 

[Magenta]

Sure, context matters. It is odd how you believe(?) they had freewill on a matter, but not on the most important matter.

They were able to make choices, that has been my position all along, how severely are you handicapped in your ability to comprehend?

 

[Believer08]

They were able to make choices, that has been my position all along, how severely are you handicapped in your ability to comprehend?

Great! I think you have cut one string off from being a puppet! We are making progress!

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

That is not how I became a Christian. God convicted me of sin, raised me to life from spiritual death, and drew me with loving kindness to the point where I became convinced of the Truth of God's reveal written Word and what it says of the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, the lover of my soul. Being convinced did not leave room for me making a choice to believe. I simply did, after years and years of running from Him in rebellion and defiance. Now I am grateful that He pursued me. To hear free willers talk, they are resentful of the mere thought that God would do anything that really proved His love for us. They say He forces things on us but not life. Too weird.

No offence, sister, but I don't think you know what you're talking about!

 

[Magenta]

Great! I think you have cut one string off from being a puppet! We are making progress!

You are severely handicapped, okay.

 

[Magenta]

No offence, sister, but I don't think you know what you're talking about!

Right, because you disagree with my testimony, you know it so much better than I? Get real.

Stick around, you will discover that free willers believe they can be convinced of something without believing it.

 

[Believer08]

You are severely handicapped, okay.

Really? Coming from a robotic puppet?

 

[Believer08]

No offence, sister, but I don't think you know what you're talking about!

She doesn’t! And she’s not a sister!!

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Right, because you disagree with my testimony, you know it so much better than I? Get real.

Stick around, you will discover that free willers believe they can be convinced of something without believing it.

Are you on something?

 

[the_seeker]

No.

You are a honest person. You admit that there is no proof of the so-called "free will". Thank you.
I agree, there is no proof. So it's a matter of belief.

 

[Magenta]

She doesn’t! And she’s not a sister!!

.

And this thread (among many others) is exactly why it is usually fruitless talking about biblical things with others online. Much better either privately, in person, or privately online with someone that is seeking to learn, hear and listen to the other side. Finding common ground to start off with is a must.

 

[Believer08]

Are you on something?

Yes. She’s on Calvinism. A horrendous doctrinal and theological drug to the soul.