Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

Lest anyone fall for these falsehoods....

Titus 3:5 defines this beautifully:

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”​

The washing of regeneration is salvation itself, not a step that comes before it. Regeneration happens when a sinner believes the gospel and is saved.source

 

[Cameron143]

So we would have to conclude that a regenerated person could go to the LoF.......Some may physically die while dilly dallying with their "will" and never get saved.

What person who has been made spiritually alive, given spiritual enlightenment, and under conviction of the Spirit refuse Christ?

BTW...when the Spirit convicts an individual, does God act unilaterally or get permission from the individual?

 

[Cameron143]

Everyone is under conviction of the Holy Ghost. But only some RECEIVE Him as they DESIRE/CHOOSE light rather than darkness.

Jhn 16:8
“And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 3:19
“And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

You believe that at every moment people are under conviction?

BTW...when God puts someone under conviction, does He get their consent?

 

[HeIsHere]

You believe that at every moment people are under conviction?

BTW...when God puts someone under conviction, does He get their consent?

Here is a novel idea how about practicing what you preach... did he state "every moment!?"

 

[Cameron143]

I don't understand the difference here.
Is not regenerative life Salvation?

No. It makes belief possible.

Spiritual life was lost due to sin immediately. Physical death came later...dying ye shall die.

 

[Cameron143]

Oh yes tells us then how this act of regeneration occurs?

See Acts 2:37.

 

[PennEd]

No. It makes belief possible.

Spiritual life was lost due to sin immediately. Physical death came later...dying ye shall die.

So you're saying we are "quickened" first, and then believe, and then are saved?

I believe you are right on that. Do you believe everyone that is quickened will believe and be saved?

 

[Jordon]

You believe that at every moment people are under conviction?

BTW...when God puts someone under conviction, does He get their consent?

. Only if he enables there free will first lol.

 

[HeIsHere]

See Acts 2:37.

This is NOT regeneration, neither does it state it was an act of God.

Next!

 

[Cameron143]

So you're saying we are "quickened" first, and then believe, and then are saved?

I believe you are right on that. Do you believe everyone that is quickened will believe and be saved?

I do. The purpose of quickening is for God to exercise His mercy towards the individual. Ephesians 2:1-10 reveals all this. We can explore that if you like. This is actually worked out in Acts 2:37, which we can explore as well.

 

[Cameron143]

This is NOT regeneration, neither does it state it was an act of God.

Next!

Of course it is.

 

[cv5]

Go no further than to read the first pathetic point on that page.

"Make it textual, not logical” really means “teach Calvinism, not the Bible.” It’s a way to protect the system from being tested by the reasoning and logic that Scripture itself demands—a tactic virtually every unbiblical system employs. Logic is an essential part of exegesis.

Right. A flawless flow of logic can and should be derived from the Bible.
But what is even more important is PATTERN RECOGNITION.

Pattern recognition may be the most crucial component of true Biblical literacy.

Much of the time the Calvinists arguments revolve around their ruminations on mere words that they wrongly comprehend in the English language.

IMO, the pejoratives contained in this passage apply......

Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.

 

[cv5]

Oh yes tells us then how this act of regeneration occurs?

And when exactly. And how exactly......

Of course we have covered this already ad nauseum...

 

[Genez]

But...how can God truly be free if he doesn't have the power to make choices contrary to his righteous and holy nature?

God is totally free 'not to' make such a choice.

That's a question Satan would ask. Why? Because he made the original wrong choice that he was free not to.
He wants to excuse himself from his wrongdoing by imposing it upon God. But, at this time, he dares not to.

 

[HeIsHere]

Of course it is.

Prove it then, so far in this thread, every Calvinist point has been shown, by many over and over, to be not Biblical soteriology.

 

[PennEd]

I do.

I do too.

I grew up a wishy washy Catholic, and got saved in a Calvary Chapel years later. I wasn't even familiar with Calvinism at all. I just read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit and mature Brethren speak to me. I find myself more often than not agreeing with Calvinist thought, though I do not consider myself one. I actually attend a Nazarene Church which isn't Calvinist in the least.

Over the more than a dozen years here, I have repeatedly asked how a DEAD person can do ANYTHING. There is ZERO doubt we are spiritually dead until becoming Born Again. I simply cannot see how that can happen WITHOUT God "quickening" us. We would never choose Him unless He did first. The best answer the free willers have come up with is that we are only "mostly dead". Like in the Princess Bride.

I fully understand how that may come across as us being special, and others not so much, since HE chose to quicken us.

I find that waaaay more palatable than thinking I'm smarter in understanding the Gospel, have more logic, or am a more moral, better person than those that don't choose Him.

I trust that God's Ways are not our ways, and those difficult questions will be answered when we no longer see through a glass darkly.

 

[Jordon]

I do. The purpose of quickening is for God to exercise His mercy towards the individual. Ephesians 2:1-10 reveals all this. We can explore that if you like. This is actually worked out in Acts 2:37, which we can explore as well.

nice one bro acts 2.37 is a the inner jewel in the crown,

You know cam that's us active will right there cutting to heart and bringing conviction,

Its what's nearby every verse in the bible is God brings a reaction from there hearts.

But it not just his active will it's his permissive will if what he allows to happen in there hearts bro. Only the good stuff that is

 

[Genez]

My Biblical Case for Temporary Enablement or Enlightenment
(a.k.a. Prevenient Grace)
(God enabled free will)

God initiates salvation by enabling sinners to believe the gospel.
This enablement is temporary and resistible and does not guarantee salvation.
Salvation always follows belief. It never causes belief.


1. God universally enables belief

1. Christ enlightens every person
John 1:9 KJV
“…the true Light… lighteth every man that cometh into the world…”


2. Christ draws all people toward Himself
John 12:32 KJV
“…I… will draw all men unto me…”


3. The Holy Spirit convicts the world
John 16:8 KJV
“…He will reprove the world of sin…”


2. God opens hearts to hear the gospel

(Not a forced regeneration)


4. The Lord opened Lydia’s heart to respond
Acts 16:14 KJV
“And a certain woman named Lydia… whose heart the Lord opened… that she attended unto the things which were spoken…”


Summary
God opened Lydia’s heart so she could hear and understand the gospel message being preached.


Note
In Scripture, the heart is the seat of one’s mind and emotions. To “open” the heart means God grants understanding and access to truth. The wording implies illumination not control. Scripture does not say “God took possession of her heart” or anything that suggests belief was forced. Based on what we know from the rest of Scripture she would have been able to respond freely to what she understood.


3. Believing is God enabled not self produced

5. God enables belief
John 6:29 KJV
“This is the work of God that ye believe…”


6. Faith is a gift of grace not human merit
Ephesians 2:8 to 9 KJV
“…by grace are ye saved through faith… it is the gift of God…”


4. Under God enabled free will, Scripture shows belief is before salvation

Intro
After God enables the will of men to freely choose the Lord, we see the biblical pattern of belief mentioned before salvation.


7. The gospel brings salvation after belief
Romans 1:16 KJV
“…the gospel of Christ… is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…”


8. Jesus basically says Believe and then be saved
Luke 8:12 KJV
“…lest they should believe and be saved…”


9. Paul essentially says Believe and then be saved
Acts 16:30 to 31 KJV
“…Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved…”


10. We become God’s children after believing
John 1:12 KJV
“…power to become the sons of God even to them that believe…”


11. Life comes through believing
John 20:31 KJV
“…that believing ye might have life through his name…”


5. God presents a real choice between two outcomes

12. The choice is yours
Joshua 24:15 KJV
“…Choose you this day whom ye will serve…”


13. Choose life not death
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
“…I have set before you life and death… therefore choose life…”


6. Water of Life is Offered Freely to All

14. The will of anyone is offered to freely take the water of life
Revelation 22:17 KJV
“…whosoever will let him take the water of life freely…”


7. God’s Offer of Salvation Under His Enablement Can Be Resisted

(Temporary enablement is not irresistible)


15. People resist the Holy Spirit
Acts 7:51 KJV
“…ye do always resist the Holy Ghost…”


16. People refuse saving truth
2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV
“…received not the love of the truth that they might be saved…”


17. People reject God’s call
Proverbs 1:24 to 25 KJV
“…I have called and ye refused…”


18. Jesus would save them but they would not allow it
Matthew 23:37 KJV
“…I would… and ye would not…”


19. Salvation can be neglected
Hebrews 2:3 KJV
“…if we neglect so great salvation…”


20. Some deny the Lord who bought them
2 Peter 2:1 KJV
“…denying the Lord that bought them…”


Final Takeaway From Scripture

God enables
Man believes
God saves

Always this order
Never reversed

Biblical order
“Believe and be saved…” Luke 8:12
“Believe… and thou shalt be saved…” Acts 16:31

Calvinist order
“Be saved and then believe”

These two orders cannot be reconciled.
Temporary enablement never guarantees faith.
It provides a real opportunity to believe the gospel.



....

It seems that God enables men to get to know what is needed about God and His qualities.
Salvation could amount to God saying to someone who has been so enlightened by God's drawing...

"Will you join me?"
"Will you be with me?"

We say..."yes."
And, He takes us in. (salvation)

God's drawing to man is likened to a marriage proposal.

We must remember! God is love.

 

[Cameron143]

Prove it then, so far in this thread, every Calvinist point has been shown, by many over and over, to be not Biblical soteriology.

You didn't answer my question. I'm sure it was just an oversight. When God places an individual under conviction, does He first get consent?

 

[Genez]

This is a remembrance of what God does for His people. Our God is described as being longsuffering. His people are not perfect, but He chose them in spite of this.
Even those who belong to Him continue to sin. And, when things go wrong, they cry out to the Lord for help.
We all sin and should be thankful that our God is longsuffering! This is what gets us back on the right path.

God is not eternally concerned about the problems a believer now faces and causes for himself because of Adam's fall.

For once we become resurrected?
There will be no need for concern.
No more tears... no more sorrow.

God wanted to allow for man to fall.

Why?

Man in his fallen state has set before Satan and his angels something perfect that they can judge and condemn.
In doing so?
Since fallen man has become the seed of Satan. (like father, like son).
After man fell?
Satan and his angels ended up judging and condemning their own actions and thoughts as seen in fallen man!

In so doing?
Satan and his angels end up vindicating God's judgment of themselves!

For, by what they do in judging and condemning man?
God is telling the fallen angels...

How can God be wrong? For if you despise and condemn in others the very same things you do?
You are now knowing, and admitting to, that you were rightfully judged by God!
But, unlike men. Continuously refused to repent for so doing!

In the meanwhile?
Fallen man who turns to Christ?

That person had been crucified on the Cross in Christ!
For that reason. In God's eyes, we no longer live.
We must now live by Christ living in us by knowing his Word and the Spirit making it alive in us!
We are to be living in thinking sound doctrine while walking in the power of filling of the Holy Spirit!

God is not concerned...

For, once we are resurrected?
There will be no more inner conflict to be found.
We will then live as Christ lives.

At present, only by faith, will we now know these things.

grace and peace!