Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

we are hard pressed to find clear support for this tenet,

You simply close your eyes to them. We are hard pressed to find ANY Scriptural support for many of your views.

Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the man of flesh (unregenerated) cannot submit to or obey God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he is not. Scripture says the gospel is hid. Your view is, the gospel is not hid. Jesus said not everyone hears. Your view is, everyone hears. Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Your view is, the flesh can choose to make a decision a plethora of Scriptures say it cannot, to please God and bring forth fruit unto life. Scripture says the devil has taken people captive to do his will. Your view is, man has a will that is free. Scripture says no man can come to God unless God draws them. Your view is, divine intervention is not necessary. Your view is, man has everything he needs to come to believe. Scripture makes plain certain things are only known through the Spirit and revelation which you continually denigrate. Scripture shows over and over again from Genesis all the way through to Revelation that God reveals Himself differently from one person to the next. Your view is, God is unfair if He were to reveal Himself in any way differently from one person to the next. Your view is those you disagree with should preach in cemeteries, then you lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. Your view is to not only blaspheme God yourself, but agree with those who blaspheme God in other ways. Along with other free willers, you come across as despising God's sovereignty, and call Him doing things for His own purposes doing them for no good reason. No matter how you look at it, your theological stance on this issue directly contradicts and outright denies what the Bible explicitly articulates in a number of places, and you are not likely to change it any time soon because to bring your view into line with what Scripture actually teaches would bring your whole house of cards down, and demolish your vain self-exalting stance. You cannot have that, since you are far too attached to your ear-tickling doctrine. One could even say you were in love with it. You certainly love it more than the Truth of Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 4 v 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[cv5]

Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth.

Already debunked. The lexical study of that verse has already been accomplished many times. And presto there goes Calvinism down the drain. As it always does under the slightest scrutiny.

Biblical illiteracy plagues Calvinists. And denial.

 

[HeIsHere]

Already debunked. The lexical study of that verse has already been accomplished many times. And presto there goes Calvinism down the drain. As it always does under the slightest scrutiny.

Biblical illiteracy plagues Calvinists. And denial.

It is as simple as an "unbeliever" in scripture is a person who has rejected the Gospel, otherwise how could they be unbelievers?

Of course @Cameron143 tells us that no person can believe unless they are regenerated first, but that
notion is completely absent from scripture.

 

[Magenta]

It is as simple as an "unbeliever" in scripture is a person who has rejected the Gospel, otherwise how could they be unbelievers?

Of course @Cameron143 tells us that no person can believe unless they are regenerated first, but that
notion is completely absent from scripture.

Ephesians 2 v 4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

It is as simple as an "unbeliever" in scripture is a person who has rejected the Gospel, otherwise how could they be unbelievers?

It is not as if anyone is born a believer. Gosh. Nobody rejects the gospel to become an unbeliever. They are born that way.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Human will lives in the flesh and no im not all over the place,

why was his word made flesh ?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The word "declared" is Strong's Greek 1834 ...

From Topical Lexicon

Core Sense and Theological Essence​

Strong’s Greek 1834 highlights the sacred task of “drawing out” and “setting forth in full” the deeds and character of God. In Scripture the verb always bears a testimonial force: it is not bare information but authoritative witness that summons faith. The speaker becomes a herald who unfolds what God has done and who He is, thereby advancing redemptive history.​

​

Revelation through the Son (John 1:18)​

​

The most profound instance is John 1:18, where, “the one and only Son…has made Him known”. Here the verb links the eternal Word to the Father’s self-disclosure. Moses mediated the Law, but Jesus personally interprets the invisible God. Christ’s incarnation, teaching, miracles, cross, and resurrection together form the ultimate exposition of the divine nature—grace and truth embodied. Because the Son “exegetes” the Father, believers receive a sure, sufficient, and climactic revelation that completes the progressive unveiling begun in the Old Testament.​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

what is the difference between the "will of the flesh" and the "will of man"?
.

 

[Jordon]

I have never mentioned giving anybody the benefit of the doubt.

but I am, I'm asking how long should you give someone the benefit of doubt

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

So...being made lower than the angels and being a servant and made human and subject to the creation that He created shouts glory to you?
Read Isaiah 6 to catch a glimpse of the glory of the Lord which Jesus had before He left heaven.

Yes, I acknowledged that He gave up the glory of Heaven.
But you appear to ignore the verses about Jesus' glory that I showed you.
Why are you doing that?



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[Jordon]

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The word "declared" is Strong's Greek 1834 ...

From Topical Lexicon

Core Sense and Theological Essence​

Strong’s Greek 1834 highlights the sacred task of “drawing out” and “setting forth in full” the deeds and character of God. In Scripture the verb always bears a testimonial force: it is not bare information but authoritative witness that summons faith. The speaker becomes a herald who unfolds what God has done and who He is, thereby advancing redemptive history.​

​

Revelation through the Son (John 1:18)​

​

The most profound instance is John 1:18, where, “the one and only Son…has made Him known”. Here the verb links the eternal Word to the Father’s self-disclosure. Moses mediated the Law, but Jesus personally interprets the invisible God. Christ’s incarnation, teaching, miracles, cross, and resurrection together form the ultimate exposition of the divine nature—grace and truth embodied. Because the Son “exegetes” the Father, believers receive a sure, sufficient, and climactic revelation that completes the progressive unveiling begun in the Old Testament.​

what is the difference between the "will of the flesh" and the "will of man"?
.

none the the will of man is the ancestry of the will of the flesh .

And once again your splitting the meanings up in an order to suit your interpretations.

Just like you won't split up the word of God becoming flesh you solely attribute that to Jesus becoming flesh, and don't recognise the word was with God.

And its been the same a lot of other times to where you haven't acknowledged God going against the will of the flesh.

And here you are splitting it up again.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

untill A person is saved and for a lot of families especially sibling rivalry they have a love hate relationship, and when they express love it's because there conscience has been pricked by God,

Because every unsaved person has there conscience pricked by God, and that is God going against there will,

Jesus also declares that his word, will have brother going against sister and father and mother, and that is also against there will, because some will fight the prick to there conscience, as his active word is alive in spirit, able to cut through the soul.

And like wise, Gods word is alive and active and he commands children to honour there father and mother. And he delivers that to there conscience through his word that was made flesh that dwells amongst us which is. Aive and active

And when there conscience is pricked the unsaved will express faith love kindness and everything else. But because there unsaved, any expression they make for a lot of them will have them thinking there perfect, and they fail to express love how it should be expressed, they end up expressing Jealous love, or love for money or live for gain, or love for themselves, or love because there being told to, by God pricking there conscience, and even when God has pricked there conscience it can be weeks before they express any love.

Because God is slow to anger and patient in waiting after he delivers his message.

So no get your crazy isms ego out of your head, as your the one displaying it nobody else.

Your the one saying crazy things, your the one saying your will is above God, and then attributing that to this imaginary Calvinistic person, no the crazy isms are in your head.

The sooner you start to disaplining your own will with Gods will the better it will be for you,

Your reply did not really erase or take away the moral problem. You just doubled down on God's will as if that solved the issue, when in reality it didn't. You either did not understand what I actually said, or you are refusing to address the moral dilemma in Calvinism. In either case, there is no real purpose in having any discourse with you if you fail to properly address the moral problem in your own belief system.

Good day, and may God bless you.







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[Magenta]

It is as simple as an "unbeliever" in scripture is a person who has rejected the Gospel, otherwise how could they be unbelievers?

It is not as if anyone is born a believer. Gosh. Nobody rejects the gospel to become an unbeliever. They are born that way.

Added: That means something has to happen for them to become a believer, the opposite of your claim.

And that something begins with God acting unilaterally, another thing
that gets denied and contradicted by at least one of our FW proponents.

 

[HeIsHere]

Your reply did not really erase or take away the moral problem. You just doubled down on God's will as if that solved the issue, when in reality it didn't. You either did not understand what I actually said, or you are refusing to address the moral dilemma in Calvinism. In either case, there is no real purpose in having any discourse with you if you fail to properly address the moral problem in your own belief system.

Good day, and may God bless you.







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They do not have a moral problem with their soteriology because the character of God is not the one described in scripture.

 

[BillyBob]

you fail to properly address the moral problem in your own belief system

What is the moral problem that you speak of?

 

[Jordon]

Your reply did not really erase or take away the moral problem. You just doubled down on God's will as if that solved the issue, when in reality it didn't. You either did not understand what I actually said, or you are refusing to address the moral dilemma in Calvinism. In either case, there is no real purpose in having any discourse with you if you fail to properly address the moral problem in your own belief system.

Good day, and may God bless you.







....

Well God bless you to sir

But why should my reply to you be seen as me not addressing what you said, or why should my reply be seen for the invalid reason you state.

Well it's because the will of the flesh has a tendency to go with the first thought more often than not sir.

And again whislt you may think I'm doubling down im not
Even in the bible sir God will deliver a message to a persons heart, and he will answer how he sees it with his first thought, It's why God declares be bereans of the word to test the scripture to see if they align with God.

It's like Peter or Judas, they where delivered a message to there hearts and yet they where led by the will of the flesh.

So again sir you see a message coming from the persons heart but do you always notice the message that was delivered and the reason why,. Well no because quite often here, people read the lords faith being answered as there own faith,.and they miss the reason why it was delivered.

So which ever way you go sir the will of the flesh holds it's self above God unless you can discipline it with his internal will

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Teachers are not being duplicitous when they ask questions they know the answer to.

That would make sense if the purpose were only instructional, but the context here is not a classroom setting where a teacher is speaking to students to make them think about a rhetorical question. In Genesis 3, the Lord’s question carries a literal and personal tone, not a teaching one. If God’s omniscience were fully active, He would already know their exact location and condition, making the question unnecessary.

This is why I see the question as something deeper. It could either be meant to draw attention to Adam’s spiritual separation from God, or it could be revealing that the divine person present, likely the pre-incarnate Christ, was operating with His omniscience suppressed. In either case, the question was not asked to gain information, but either to confront Adam about his fallen condition or to show a glimpse of Christ’s humbled state before His incarnation.


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[Genez]

How does Calvinism work in Jonah 3?
Jonah told that the Ninevites were going to face God's Judgment in 40 days, and yet that did not happen because they decided to seek forgiveness with God and forsake their evil ways. When God had seen that they abandoned their wickedness, that is when God turned back on bringing judgment upon them.

Over time, the Reasonable must learn when not to try to reason with the Unreasonable.

Noah had to learn when to ignore them, as to keep busy building his boat.
Keep growing in grace and knowledge. Prepare your own ark.

The mystery of iniquity is at work.
Might as well try to convince the devil to become a missionary.

They have CHOSEN the voice they listen to.
The Devil knows Scripture!
The more you give them, the more they will feel inspired by being fed more of their own.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

What is the moral problem that you speak of?

Read again my post here. If you still don't get it, put yourself and your loved ones in that scenario (as if in a hypothetical parallel universe). Could you then really say that the rescuer in my scenario was being loving and good?
Would you not be personally outraged if it happened to you (if you imagined yourself in this parallel univers)?
This would be a violation of basic morality.
Then connect the dots with the Calvinistic version of God that you believe in.




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[Genez]

Teachers are not being duplicitous when they ask questions they know the answer to.

They are duplicitous when they know the answer they give works to obstruct.
And, they want to be that way.

We are the voice we hear.
The voice we prefer.

 

[Genez]

@Genez

Congrats! You were the first to post on page 1000

Noticing the number of posts of this entire thread should make one realize that we have all chosen our sides and will not change.

I said, "chosen."