SO MANY FALSE PASTORS TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avery]

Brother, pride has nothing to do with it. The issue is truth, not ego.
Scripture interprets Scripture — and the Word of God never teaches two gospels, one by Peter and another by Paul.

Both proclaimed salvation by grace through faith in Christ’s finished work:

• Peter affirmed, “We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” (Acts 15:11).
• Paul declared, “There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5).

Different audiences, yes — but one message of salvation. The “forest” you refer to is the unity of the gospel, not its division.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Avery]

If two preachers preached the same message, there may be some variations because two different people preached it. But it’s still the same message. Peter was a fisherman and Paul was a scholar;
two very different people. But God used them according to his plan for their lives and the people in different areas of the world He called them to go to. Peter mostly ministered to the Jews and Paul the gentiles. But the message they preached was still the same. it’s THE gospel. The finished work of Christ on the cross. Salvation by grace through faith. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

And Just my opinion, but isn’t the goal unity in the Body? Sharing ideas and debate is good, but anger, bitterness and caustic remarks toward others does not glorify God. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Musicmaster]

That response from you is emotional deflection dressed as logic. You are claiming “argument from silence” while building your entire position on silence — the very thing you accuse me of.

Paul’s words aren’t silent at all — they’re explicit.
He summarized the gospel in plain terms:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel… that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day.” (1 Cor 15:1-4)​

That’s not “Paul’s gospel” versus “the twelve’s.” It’s the gospel — the same message Peter preached (Acts 2:32-38; 10:43; 15:11).

Peter commanded baptism after faith; Paul affirmed baptism follows the gospel, not defines it:

“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” (1 Cor 1:17)​

That’s not silence — that’s distinction between means and message.
The message is Christ crucified and risen; the means of receiving it is faith.

So, far from proving “two gospels,” Paul and Peter both taught one salvation, one Lord, one faith (Eph 4:5).
Silence didn’t create that unity — Scripture did.

Grace and peace.

That's not Paul's gospel? Really? You're going to stick to that?

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Show to me where Paul ever stated that water baptism was the means by which sins are remitted under the gospel he preached?

You continue to ignore that. Why?

What you ignore are the ELEMENTS within the gospel preached by Peter, which included the requirement for water baptism unto the remission of sins, and Paul's utter silence on that one element. The silence proves the falsehood behind your injection, not some invention of a doctrine on my part. The silence speaks loud volumes against your false claim.

Are you so blind to that fact that you're still going to falsely claim they both preached the same exact things? Why do you persist in this denial of what's so blatantly obvious?

And before trying to use something that proves nothing in relation to your claim as some have tried to do in the past, Paul's actions in baptizing only a small hand full of people at the very beginning of his ministry, versus his refusal to baptize later...no, that doesn't equate to some silent command for such.

You're only fooling yourself in all this, and all your sniggering comrades in the wings of this discussion.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

If two preachers preached the same message, there may be some variations because two different people preached it. But it’s still the same message. Peter was a fisherman and Paul was a scholar;
two very different people. But God used them according to his plan for their lives and the people in different areas of the world He called them to go to. Peter mostly ministered to the Jews and Paul the gentiles. But the message they preached was still the same. it’s THE gospel. The finished work of Christ on the cross. Salvation by grace through faith. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

And Just my opinion, but isn’t the goal unity in the Body? Sharing ideas and debate is good, but anger, bitterness and caustic remarks toward others does not glorify God. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Thanks for reading.

A point of clarification, when speakers are so careless as to not remain consistent in identifying the elements of a message of such great importance such as salvation, then the one who would leave out any one element of great importance, that one is not a minister of Christ.

It's one thing to leave out details of inconsequential storylines, but salvation is central to all importance to all mankind, and to suggest that Paul was remiss by not including water baptism had it actually been an element of remission for sin within the scope of salvation by grace, that would completely disqualify him for having left something out so important that was indeed for posterity. None of his epistles make one mention for that requirement that Peter was careful to include to those who were under the Kingdom Gospel.

Just wanted to offer that for consideration.

MM

 

[Avery]

I think you must hold a PhD in speck ministry (Matt 7). And if the Lord Jesus didn‘t see a problem with Paul’s ministry as it was why should you? God Used him to write 13 of the New Testament books. Who are you to judge another man’s servant?

I’m sorry I ever got into this conversation. So I’m done with this thread…

 

[Musicmaster]

I think you must hold a PhD in speck ministry (Matt 7). And if the Lord Jesus didn‘t see a problem with Paul’s ministry as it was why should you? God Used him to write 13 of the New Testament books. Who are you to judge another man’s servant?

I’m sorry I ever got into this conversation. So I’m done with this thread…

I'm not sure I understand how elements having to do with salvation can be compared to mere specks, but to each his own.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

That response from you is emotional deflection dressed as logic. You are claiming “argument from silence” while building your entire position on silence — the very thing you accuse me of.

Paul’s words aren’t silent at all — they’re explicit.
He summarized the gospel in plain terms:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel… that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day.” (1 Cor 15:1-4)​

That’s not “Paul’s gospel” versus “the twelve’s.” It’s the gospel — the same message Peter preached (Acts 2:32-38; 10:43; 15:11).

Peter commanded baptism after faith; Paul affirmed baptism follows the gospel, not defines it:

“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” (1 Cor 1:17)​

That’s not silence — that’s distinction between means and message.
The message is Christ crucified and risen; the means of receiving it is faith.

So, far from proving “two gospels,” Paul and Peter both taught one salvation, one Lord, one faith (Eph 4:5).
Silence didn’t create that unity — Scripture did.

Grace and peace.

You keep parroting the same old denials of the text.

Whatever...

MM

 

[LightBearer316]

You keep parroting the same old denials of the text.

Whatever...

MM

You keep missing the mark because your heart isn’t right before God. When a person continually twists and mishandles His Word, God allows their own confusion to deepen until they can no longer discern truth from error.

 

[Musicmaster]

You keep missing the mark because your heart isn’t right before God. When a person continually twists and mishandles His Word, God allows their own confusion to deepen until they can no longer discern truth from error.

As stated before, the silence within scripture is the prime weapon against injections so many try to force into the text things that simply aren't there. You being guilty of that is the motivation behind the slight-of-hand and table-turning tactics of which you accused me.

Whatever...

MM

 

[LightBearer316]

As stated before, the silence within scripture is the prime weapon against injections so many try to force into the text things that simply aren't there. You being guilty of that is the motivation behind the slight-of-hand and table-turning tactics of which you accused me.

Whatever...

MM

You’ve made a lot of assumptions there, and I’ll simply say this: I’ve handled the text carefully and within its context. The issue isn’t “injections,” but interpretation — and Scripture interprets itself when read rightly and compared line upon line.

Let’s keep the focus on the Word itself. May the Lord forgive you for twisting His Holy Word.

Grace and Peace

 

[shittim]

If two preachers preached the same message, there may be some variations because two different people preached it. But it’s still the same message. Peter was a fisherman and Paul was a scholar;
two very different people. But God used them according to his plan for their lives and the people in different areas of the world He called them to go to. Peter mostly ministered to the Jews and Paul the gentiles. But the message they preached was still the same. it’s THE gospel. The finished work of Christ on the cross. Salvation by grace through faith. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

And Just my opinion, but isn’t the goal unity in the Body? Sharing ideas and debate is good, but anger, bitterness and caustic remarks toward others does not glorify God. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Thanks for reading.

Yes Avery, "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks"

 

[Avery]

That’s true but for the sake of argument let’s say they were in fact in agreement on every point and that they both had hearts with a zeal for God. Same message; different people delivering it.

It’s like:
1. The horse jumped over the fence to get some hay.
2. The hungry horse jumped over the fence and began eating the hay.

The basic statement is the horse jumped the fence so it could eat. It was just stated differently.
it was just a thought. Trying to bring some reason into this vortex of a subject.

 

[Musicmaster]

You’ve made a lot of assumptions there, and I’ll simply say this: I’ve handled the text carefully and within its context. The issue isn’t “injections,” but interpretation — and Scripture interprets itself when read rightly and compared line upon line.

Let’s keep the focus on the Word itself. May the Lord forgive you for twisting His Holy Word.

Grace and Peace

Yes. "Interpretation" has indeed been a weaponized methodology and battering ram to try and force scripture into saying whatever one wants. Many allegorize the scriptures into addressing and concluding many things that are not at all within the contexts.

MM

 

[LightBearer316]

Yes. "Interpretation" has indeed been a weaponized methodology and battering ram to try and force scripture into saying whatever one wants. Many allegorize the scriptures into addressing and concluding many things that are not at all within the contexts.

MM

MM, you can dress it up however you like, but what you’re doing isn’t interpretation — it’s manipulation. The moment someone calls sound exegesis a “weaponized methodology,” it exposes the real issue: you can’t stand being corrected by the text itself.

Allegorizing and twisting Scripture to fit your own narrative isn’t discernment — it’s deception. The Word of God doesn’t bend to your imagination. It says what it says, and the Spirit confirms truth, not personal spin.

You accuse others of “forcing Scripture,” yet you’re the one guilty of forcing meaning where none exists. That’s not interpretation — that’s rebellion against the plain truth of God’s Word.

As Peter wrote, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV)

And Paul warned of this very thing: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV)

May the Lord forgive you for twisting His Holy Word.

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

What “Musicmaster” is teaching here is a serious doctrinal error.
He’s presenting what’s commonly called the “Two Gospels” or “Dual Gospel” heresy, which claims that Peter preached a “Kingdom Gospel” to the Jews while Paul preached a different “Gospel of Grace” to the Gentiles — and that these two cannot be harmonized.

Let’s walk through how to counter this biblically and precisely.
1. The Claim Summarized

Musicmaster argues:

• Peter and Paul preached two true but separate gospels.
• Peter’s “Kingdom Gospel” included baptism and law obedience.
• Paul’s “Gospel of Grace” was separate, revealed later, and for Gentiles.
• These two gospels cannot be harmonized.

That teaching divides the body of Christ and denies the unity of the gospel message revealed through Scripture.

2. The Bible Teaches There Is Only One Gospel
Galatians 1:6–9 (KJV)

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:​

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”​

Paul says plainly — “Which is not another”.
There aren’t two valid gospels. There is only one, and any “other” is a perversion, not a second true version.

Even his wording in Greek — “heteron euangelion… ho ouk estin allo” — literally means “another of a different kind… which is not another (of the same kind).”
In other words: anything different is false.

3. Peter and Paul Preached the Same Christ and Same Salvation

Both apostles proclaimed:

• Salvation by grace through faith in Christ, not through the Law.
• One Savior, one cross, one resurrection, one Spirit, one body.

Acts 15:7–11

At the Jerusalem Council, Peter himself said:

“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”​

That’s Peter affirming Paul’s gospel of grace, not a different one.

4. The “Kingdom Gospel” Misreading

Musicmaster’s term “Kingdom Gospel” comes from confusing the audience of certain sermons with different messages.

• Peter’s message in Acts 2 was to Jews — but the content is the same gospel: repentance, faith in Christ, forgiveness of sins, and the Holy Spirit.
• Baptism was a sign of repentance, not an alternative method of salvation (Acts 2:38; cf. Acts 10:43–48 where Gentiles receive the Spirit before baptism).

Even Paul baptized converts (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:14–16).
If baptism were unique to Peter’s gospel, why would Paul perform it?

5. Scripture Declares Only One Gospel for All

• Romans 1:16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.”
• Ephesians 4:4–6: “One body, and one Spirit… one Lord, one faith, one baptism.”
• 1 Corinthians 15:1–4: Paul defines “the gospel” — the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ — the same truth Peter preached (Acts 2:23–32).

There is no division between a “Jewish” and “Gentile” gospel.
The same Savior and cross reconcile both into one new man (Ephesians 2:14–16).

6. The Danger of the Two-Gospel Theory

This teaching:

• Undermines the unity of Scripture.
• Contradicts Christ’s own words in John 10:16 — “there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
• Creates a false dichotomy between apostles who were in full agreement (Galatians 2:9).

To say God offered two “true” gospels is to accuse Him of double-speak — an impossible contradiction in the God of truth (Titus 1:2).

7. Summary: The Biblical Refutation



In Summary:
Scripture is clear — there is only one gospel, not two.
Paul said plainly in Galatians 1:6–9 that any “other gospel” is false, not a second truth.
Peter and Paul both preached the same message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ (Acts 15:7–11, Romans 1:16).
Peter himself affirmed Paul’s message as truth (2 Peter 3:15–16).
The so-called “Kingdom Gospel vs. Gospel of Grace” division is man-made — not biblical.
Christ’s body is one, His gospel is one, and His cross is sufficient for all.
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:5).

Grace and Peace

 

[Musicmaster]

MM, you can dress it up however you like, but what you’re doing isn’t interpretation — it’s manipulation. The moment someone calls sound exegesis a “weaponized methodology,” it exposes the real issue: you can’t stand being corrected by the text itself.

Allegorizing and twisting Scripture to fit your own narrative isn’t discernment — it’s deception. The Word of God doesn’t bend to your imagination. It says what it says, and the Spirit confirms truth, not personal spin.

You accuse others of “forcing Scripture,” yet you’re the one guilty of forcing meaning where none exists. That’s not interpretation — that’s rebellion against the plain truth of God’s Word.

As Peter wrote, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV)

And Paul warned of this very thing: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV)

May the Lord forgive you for twisting His Holy Word.

Grace and Peace

Yeah, that's real manipulation for me to point out the utter silence in Paul's epistles about what was once a critical element for salvation in Peter's Gospel. You're such a manipulator in how you deal with my posts. Apart from your personal buddies in here, all others can see that what I've stated is correct because its consistent with the scriptures.

You have demonstrated that you want to win at all costs, even when it involves injecting something into Paul's writings what isn't there.

That alone shows who's being dishonest here in the handling of the scriptures.

MM

 

[LightBearer316]

Yeah, that's real manipulation for me to point out the utter silence in Paul's epistles about what was once a critical element for salvation in Peter's Gospel. You're such a manipulator in how you deal with my posts. Apart from your personal buddies in here, all others can see that what I've stated is correct because its consistent with the scriptures.

You have demonstrated that you want to win at all costs, even when it involves injecting something into Paul's writings what isn't there.

That alone shows who's being dishonest here in the handling of the scriptures.

MM

MM, the “silence” you’re pointing to in Paul’s letters isn’t proof of two gospels — it’s proof of faulty reasoning.
Argument from silence is not exegesis; it’s eisegesis. Paul didn’t need to restate every element Peter preached, because they were proclaiming the same gospel to different audiences — not different messages.

Scripture interprets Scripture, and when we let it speak for itself, the unity is unmistakable:

• Acts 15:7–11 – Peter himself declared that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace through faith in Christ, not by baptism or the Law.
• 1 Corinthians 1:17 – Paul said, “Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” That doesn’t exclude baptism; it simply shows it’s not what saves.
• Ephesians 4:5 – “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Not two.

You accuse others of “injecting” meaning, yet your interpretation forces contradiction where the Holy Spirit shows complete harmony. The apostles were never opponents; they were co-laborers in one message, one body, one cross, and one risen Lord.

The Word of God is not divided — men divide it when pride refuses correction.

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.”​

— 1 Peter 5:8 KJV​

Sound doctrine doesn’t bow to speculation or clever argument. The gospel of Christ stands whole and indivisible — “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” (Jude 3)

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

Yeah, that's real manipulation for me to point out the utter silence in Paul's epistles about what was once a critical element for salvation in Peter's Gospel. You're such a manipulator in how you deal with my posts. Apart from your personal buddies in here, all others can see that what I've stated is correct because its consistent with the scriptures.

You have demonstrated that you want to win at all costs, even when it involves injecting something into Paul's writings what isn't there.

That alone shows who's being dishonest here in the handling of the scriptures.

MM

“Thou Art the Man” Moment

MM, this is your Nathan moment. You accuse others of twisting Scripture, yet the very passages you overlook are the ones testifying against your own teaching.
Just as Nathan said to David, “Thou art the man” (2 Samuel 12:7 KJV), so the Word now speaks to you. The Scriptures you claim to defend are the very ones you’re dividing.
God’s Word is not silent — it’s your interpretation that refuses to listen. The same gospel Peter preached at Pentecost is the gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles: Christ crucified, risen, and offered to all by grace through faith.
When you reject that unity, you’re not exposing error — you’re embodying it.

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword…” (Hebrews 4:12 KJV)​

Truth doesn’t need embellishment. It exposes, convicts, and calls for repentance. And when the Word says, “One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” no man has the right to say otherwise.
Be sober. Be vigilant. The adversary delights in division, but truth stands united.​

Grace and Peace

 

[Musicmaster]

That teaching divides the body of Christ and denies the unity of the gospel message revealed through Scripture.

This invention of an alleged error on my part is not absolutely consistent with what I have said throughout. I specifically pointed to one particular element, and that being water baptism for remission of sins, which you have consistently failed to show Paul ever teaching that as a central tenet of his gospel to the Gentiles and the Jews who had not yet been reached by Peter or any of the other eleven since they mostly remained in Jerusalem after the other believing Jews fled.

You can continue lying and lying about all this by way of slight misrepresentations that you try to use as a bolster to what you think is your case, but your half truths remain only that.

Even his wording in Greek — “heteron euangelion… ho ouk estin allo” — literally means “another of a different kind… which is not another (of the same kind).”
In other words: anything different is false.

Yep. I've seen all this before and that is so common with subjectivists who pick and choose which definition fits their agenda. So very pathetic indeed.

That’s Peter affirming Paul’s gospel of grace, not a different one.

You say that at the exclusion of other things written:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

The subjectivists out there love to claim this verse shows it's the same gospel while overlooking the actual language and grammar whereby this verse denotes two different messages assigned to two different apostles to two different audiences. Circumcision and UNcircumcision are not the same thing any more than the gospel messages to each were different, as proven time and time again in relation to the differing elements and fixation upon the Law versus the lack of fixation upon the Law.

Folks, please don't fall into that other system of thought that's erroneous garbage of philosophical twisting of the texts. Read the relevant texts on your own and let Holt Spirit teach you. Don't believe any of us who are writing in here, but read the texts for yourself in prayerful meditation. (1 John 2:27)

The EMOTIONAL argument against what I've been saying as allegedly being something that divides, that's just...well...emotional argumentation. How telling indeed.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

“Thou Art the Man” Moment

MM, this is your Nathan moment. You accuse others of twisting Scripture, yet the very passages you overlook are the ones testifying against your own teaching.​

Just as Nathan said to David, “Thou art the man” (2 Samuel 12:7 KJV), so the Word now speaks to you. The Scriptures you claim to defend are the very ones you’re dividing.​

God’s Word is not silent — it’s your interpretation that refuses to listen. The same gospel Peter preached at Pentecost is the gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles: Christ crucified, risen, and offered to all by grace through faith.​

When you reject that unity, you’re not exposing error — you’re embodying it.​

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword…” (Hebrews 4:12 KJV)​

Truth doesn’t need embellishment. It exposes, convicts, and calls for repentance. And when the Word says, “One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” no man has the right to say otherwise.​

Be sober. Be vigilant. The adversary delights in division, but truth stands united.​

Grace and Peace

My only disagreements are with you and what your false teaching pastors have taught you that you choose to embrace as allegedly true interpretation and application.

MM