Righteousness

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I'm not talking about earning righteousness, I'm talking about doing righteousness.
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Yes you state the following which seems speak of keeping commandments. You do not seem to understand it is not our righteousness that indicates salvation. I would agree that we do turn from sin, but, as far as somehow achieving any sort of righteousness even after salvation, where does it say that anywhere in scripture? Isn't only the righteousness of Christ and our
life in Him that God sees as righteous?

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Knowing God is keeping his commandments. So essentially you're agreeing with me that they are rejected because they don't obey Christ
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
John plainly says obeying God is knowing him, so logically, we can stop knowing God if we stop obeying him
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That isn't what John said. Read 1 John 2:3 again. It doesn't say obeying God is knowing God. It says we can know we have eternal life if we keep His commandments. Obedience doesn't produce eternal life, it merely evidences it. You have a poor understanding of the verse.
 
Cameron143 said:
Obedience is not eternal life. It may be an evidence that we have eternal life. But it is no guarantee. Those in Matthew 7:21-23

Eternal life is not obedience. Eternal life is knowing God and Christ. The passage you site merely states that obedience may be evidence that one possesses eternal life. It is one of five tests that the Apostle John reveals in the epistle. If one is meeting all the conditions stipulated, chances are good that they possess eternal life.

Knowing God and Christ is altogether different. This requires actual interaction and experience of God. Let's look at some examples:
...Romans 8:16 says the Spirit of God witnesses to our spirits that we are the children of God. Have you experienced this?
...Matthew 6:6 says we are to pray in secret and our Father who is in secret will meet us there. Have you experienced this?
...Hebrews 4:16 says we can come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Have you experienced this?
...on the road to Emmaus Jesus opened the understanding of His fellow travelers. Have you ever experienced this?

Again, eternal life is not obedience, but may be evidenced by obedience. Eternal life is actually engaging with God through the life of Christ in us.
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The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus be embodying His likeness through experiencing being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life. This is also why Jesus affirmed in Luke 10:25-28 that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about the way to experience the content of the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to earn it.

The issue of why Jesus will tell people to depart from him is that people can go through the motions of obeying God’s law while neglecting to be a doer of the character traits of God that it was given in order to graciously teach us how to embody. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. In Philippians 3:8, Paul was in a similar situation where he had been obeying the law, but without being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law and counted that as rubbish.
 
pinebeach said:
Yes you state the following which seems speak of keeping commandments. You do not seem to understand it is not our righteousness that indicates salvation. I would agree that we do turn from sin, but, as far as somehow achieving any sort of righteousness even after salvation, where does it say that anywhere in scripture? Isn't only the righteousness of Christ and our life in Him that God sees as righteous?
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Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7​
 
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Soyeong said:
The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus be embodying His likeness through experiencing being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life. This is also why Jesus affirmed in Luke 10:25-28 that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about the way to experience the content of the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to earn it.

The issue of why Jesus will tell people to depart from him is that people can go through the motions of obeying God’s law while neglecting to be a doer of the character traits of God that it was given in order to graciously teach us how to embody. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. In Philippians 3:8, Paul was in a similar situation where he had been obeying the law, but without being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law and counted that as rubbish.
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Nope. We know God the same way we know any person...by spending time with them...through experience. We experience eternal life as we do.
 
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Righteousness is an act that we do to have righteousness applied in our life.

It is an action we must do to have righteousness.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness.

But he had to have works, an action, for his faith to count.

Because by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

We have to have action by being Christlike being led of the Spirit not wanting sin for us to have righteousness and faith.

Not saying all we need is faith.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

No love then no faith.

And love only applies when done in action.

We have to have action to have love and faith active in our life.

We cannot say all we need is faith.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

There is no excuse for our sin because by the Spirit we can abstain from sin.

We are saved by faith, and not by works, when we first accept Christ for that is all we can do.

But when we receive the Spirit we have to have works of love or our faith is no good.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people do not come to the truth denying the Spirit and love sin more than God.

These are people that say we are saved by faith and say they cannot abstain from sin.

They do not have action that qualifies them to have salvation.

We have to have action to have love and faith active in our life.

We cannot say all we need is faith.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7​
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We are declared righteous in Christ. We do not have righteousness that we have somehow earned or created. That is a complete misunderstanding of what the text states. As a believer, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who gives us the power to live as is pleasing to God.

You seem to conflate the righteousness of Christ with acts of obedience on our part, with creating rightousness in us.
 
Aaron56 said:
There is saved to go to heaven when you die and there is saved from the ways of the world. Each have different requirements. Neither of them involve the law of Sinai.
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In Matthew 7
NightTwister said:
You're trying to earn eternal life. You can't work to get that.
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i have said nothing in favor of trying to earn eternal life. We can’t earn eternal life even as the result of having perfect obedience to God’s law, so you are burning a straw man.
 
Cameron143 said:
Nope. We know God the same way we know any person...by spending time with them...through experience. We experience eternal life as we do.
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You can disagree with what the Bible says about how to know God if you want, but then you would be wrong.
 
Works based salvation promotion has once again failed miserably...

Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(MY NOTE: God justifies him that """worketh not""", Via FAITH.)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(MY NOTE: God imputes Righteousness via FAITH """without works""")

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
(MY NOTE: Jesus PAID for the sins of those that believe: Jesus is Lord & raised from the dead for their justification)

Rom 5:
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
(MY NOTE Grace is a FREE GIFT!)

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
(MY NOTE: Righteousness if a GIFT! Accessed by FAITH! See Rom 5:1-2)

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's GIFT of GRACE, are you SAVED, thru FAITH placed in Jesus sin atoning work)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: No personal works needed/required of ALLOWED!)

Grace & Righteousness are GIFTS from God accessed by FAITH. A GIFT is GIVEN not earned.
 
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